Doctor MJ wrote:Vote: Kevin Johnson
Nominate: Sigh...let's go with Robert Parish.
Other guys on my mind:
Mutombo
Arizin
Marques
Price
Mutombo is really interesting. I suppose its how we value his defensive impact.
In theory, it should be fairly consistent. Obviously, it can fluctuate from year to year, depending on coach, health, effort, focus, etc. but for the most part, the great defensive anchors, once in their prime, don't seem to sway too much in their defensive impact.
Penbeast has a hangup about Bob Lanier's defense, which I've argued repeatedly wasn't that bad, as evidenced by 4 things:
(1) Ability to be part of an elite defensive team
(2) The reputation of his Detroit teams as being absolutely god awful on defense at the other positions
(3) His individual praise in old articles for defending elite centers well (at times)
(4) His defensive role/impact in Milwaukee
Then we look at Mutombo, and here were his team DRtg's
Den 91 +6.8 (pre Deke)
Den 92 +0.6
Den 93 -1.7
Den 94 -4.0
Den 95 -0.1
Den 96 +0.5
Den 97 +4.5 (post)
--
Atl 96 +0.4 (pre)
Atl 97 -4.4
Atl 98 -0.7
Atl 99 -5.1
Atl 00 +3.8
Atl 01 +1.3 (leaves post AS)
Without delving any further into scheme and roster, we can see Mutombo joins a bad defensive team, has them around average , with one elite defensive team he anchors in 1994. Again in Atlanta, he joins an average defensive team from the year before, has another impact (this time to elite) and anchors 2 elite defensive teams.
He also is part of a horrible defensive team in 2000 (with the same coach.)We can see when Deke misses 11 games in 1992 (rookie year) the team is -13.1 (!) without him and -7.1 with him...with all the change being in ppg against. In 96 he misses 8 more games and this time, theoretically around his peak as a player, they are -1.4 without him and -2.9 with him. Small sample, but negligible change at a cursory glance on both sides of the ball. In 01, we can see the difference in Atlanta and Philly pre/post trade, and in Atlanta they were -8.7 post trade (-2.8 pre), but in Philadelphia, the 76ers closed the year +1.6 while going +5.5 without Mutombo. (ppg against almost identical.)
Huh?
So even a 4-time DPOY and block master has
(1) evidence of little to no defensive impact in certain situations
(2) has been part of many average defensive teams
(3) has even been part of a bad defensive team
And I'll add, that while I like Mutombo as a defensive center if I can't get a better all-around option in there, I don't think I consider him one of the 10 best defenders ever. And his offense is certainly lacking.
Lanier, OTOH, had the following team DRtg's (estimated before 1974)
Det 70 +4.3 (pre Lanier)
Det 71 +1.7
Det 72 +4.4
Det 73 +1.6
Det 74 -3.9
Det 75 +2.0
Det 76 +1.9 (64g)
Det 77 +0.8 (64g)
Det 78 +0.6 (63g)
Det 79 +0.8 (53g)
Det 80 +3.5 (Lanier plays 37 games before trade)
--
Mil 80 -2.4 (26g post trade at +11 MOV)
Mil 81 -3.7 (67g)
Mil 82 -4.6
So Lanier "anchored" an elite team in 74 (he blocked a career best 3.0 per game that year w/1.4 steals). We know there is in/out evidence of him having little effect, like Mutombo, and him having considerable defensive effect. He is part of a horrible team in 72. He also has many average defensive teams. And he's consider the meat of the Milwaukee interior after the trade...it almost reminds me of a lite version of Kevin Garnett from Minny to Boston the way he is talked about. Not equating their defensive value, but KG has showed us how powerful a role like that can be, even post-prime. (Of course the Bucks were 6th in DRtg in 83 w Lanier out half the year...but the C's were 2nd with KG missing 25 games in 09.)
Rmember, Lanier's value is primarily on offense, which is why in 74 and 77 he finished top-4 in MVP voting. Over and over we see the value in that high-post big who can pass and stretch the defense with shooting, and that was Bob Lanier. The 75 Pistons were a top-5 offense. As were the 76 Pistons...which is interesting because there was no more Dave Bing.
TLDR: Go re-read it.
Summary: Mutombo's value should be consistent but it's hard to gauge. The credit I'm giving him roughly for each year has him closer to No. 70
Lanier show similar trends to Mutombo ITO of defensive teams, so we shouldn't be quick to dismiss him as a bad defender. And of course, of the all-time centers, his offensive impact only clearly trails Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt and Mac if we call him a center. (Add Moses, Robinson and Ewing if you wish, but the point still stands given we are at No. 52.)
