Defensive Prime: Kobe or Wade

[Quincy]

My friend and I are arguing tonight over who is better defensively between Kobe and Wade. My stance is, well, obviously Wade is much better today but in his prime I have to give the nod to Kobe. He is a much more disciplined defender, sliding his feet, using footwork, hands(which are quicker by the way), intimidation, and making the opponent switch to his weak hand dribbling-wise.

Wade, to me, has always been a superior help defender. But Kobe is the better man defender.

Obviously, Wade is more explosive leaper and in general as far as moving, so this leads to the stats we refer to as steals and blocks. But it's not like Kobe in his prime didn't get his fair share of these.

My friend thinks Kobe's defensive prowess is all due to Shaq's presence which, to me, is stupid. I just think if an opposing player is asked who they would rather match up with on offense they'd choose Wade before they would Kobe to cover them.

While both are great, neither are what I would consider on a prime Pippen or even Jordan level defensively for a perimeter player.

What say you?

[Wone]

i think in terms of prime kobe was better. didnt do c rivers say that he was or is one of the best team defenders in the game sometime during the finals (i believe it was 08?)? i think kobe in his prime was both elite man defense and elite team defense while wade is just elite in help defense.

[D Nice]

What say you?

Same as you, pretty much covered my stance in the OP.

[WestSideChamp]

Kobe easily

[SDtotheBay]

Considering that an injured Kobe was a significantly better iso defender than prime Wade last season, I'd say that this is Kobe comfortably. 1 block a game is hardly a game changer.

[Shot Clock]

When was kobe's defensive prime again?

[Doormatt]

id say it was 00-04.

[Jimmy Recard]

I got Wade. Comparable man defenders, but Wade is the better help defender. He's also the better defender in the clutch.

[See5]

Kobe from 00-04 was great IMO. No gaudy numbers but he was clearly elite at his position at the time.

[Zasterror]

I give it to Kobe, prime-wise.

Wade's advantage is that he is a much better help defender and more effective defensively in the clutch.

[Shot Clock]

I'd give kobe 2000-2002 then he lost interest in playing smart defense and started gambling and being lazy.

By 2004 both Phil and Tex were going public with their criticism of kobe's D. Suggesting he had been riding reputation for a couple years. Not much ever changed. When motivated he has been tremendous. It's just that the motivation is extremely sporadic. Thanks to youtube he's been able to maintain his first team all D.

Based on this alone I'll take Wade.

[SDtotheBay]

I give it to Kobe, prime-wise.

Wade's advantage is that he is a much better help defender and more effective defensively in the clutch.

help defense is not only blocking and stealing..Wade is not very good at rotating and closing out on shooteres. Cant remember the last time he has guarded Ray Allen effectively, it's pretty pathetic actually.

[See5]

I'd give kobe 2000-2002 then he lost interest in playing smart defense and started gambling and being lazy.

By 2004 both Phil and Tex were going public with their criticism of kobe's D. Suggesting he had been riding reputation for a couple years. Not much ever changed. When motivated he has been tremendous. It's just that the motivation is extremely sporadic. Thanks to youtube he's been able to maintain his first team all D.

Based on this alone I'll take Wade.

Seriously? You want to criticize Kobe for being lazy and don't bring up Wade doing the same thing? There are whole videos out there on Wade's horrible rotations.

[Zasterror]

I give it to Kobe, prime-wise.

Wade's advantage is that he is a much better help defender and more effective defensively in the clutch.

help defense is not only blocking and stealing..Wade is not very good at rotating and closing out on shooteres. Cant remember the last time he has guarded Ray Allen effectively, it's pretty pathetic actually.

When did I say blocking and stealing was all that there is to help defense? Wade, despite what you may think, is excellent at closing out shooters and muscling his way out of majority of screens. Why do you think Wade is allowed to roam? Due to his speed and quickness, he is able to close out effectively, even if he is out of position. This is one of the reasons why the Heat were among the best defensive teams since 2009. Plus, IIRC the Heat were one of the Top 3 teams in defending the 3 ball last season.

[aurareturn1]

Easily Kobe.

[semi-sentient]

I don't think it's fair to say that Wade was a "much better" help defender. Kobe was extremely quick back in the day and was a great help defender as well. He didn't roam quite as much, but he'd come over for the occasional weak side block (his timing is really good) and he's pretty savvy when it comes to dropping down for a quick double team (watch the 2009 Finals and how he helped disrupt the interior with his doubles).

I'm not entirely sure what "more effective help defender in the clutch" means either. Wade is either a better help defender or he isn't, and there isn't a big difference between the two in terms of help defense. There is, however, a big difference in man defense.

I think you have to go with Kobe here as I can't think of any real arguments that puts Wade above him defensively. He had no weakness on defense after the '99-00 season (his post defense against bigger 2's/3's was a problem pre '00-01 due to a lack of strength) and was legitimately one of the best defensive players in the league for several years. Wade is really good, but (athletic) prime Kobe was nasty.

[Original Baller]

Fans are swayed by the sexy blocks or steals shooting the gap and don't focus on the on-ball defense, closing out of passing lanes, denying catches, etc. that make for great defense. Coaches however do, which is why they consistently choose Kobe over Wade.

If you watch prime Kobe in the playoffs during the 3peat playing defense and compare that to Wade, you'd see this is no contest. Prime Kobe is one of the greatest perimeter defenders of all time. Compare that to Wade who has never made all-defense 1st team.

Kobe = 8 All-Defense 1st team
Wade = 0 All-Defense 1st team

nuff said

[semi-sentient]

In fairness to Wade, he deserved to be selected to the 1st team over Kobe last year, and in prior seasons he should have gotten there above CP3 and Rondo. Keep in mind that Kobe is not necessarily the one keeping him off of the 1st team as votes don't go strictly by position.

Anyway, Kobe's defense was really, really bad last season. I know what he's capable of because just the year prior he played solid defense (he and Artest were great together, and it led to the Lakers having the best perimeter defense), but last season he was just downright lazy and that extended to the post-season. There's just no way to defend him being selected to any All-Defensive team.

This season he's back to playing more like he did in 2009-10, so if he gets selected it won't be as much of a travesty, although Wade's defense has been solid so far as well outside of strictly blocked shots. It'll be interesting to see how the voting goes, and whether or not your typical RealGM box score refresher is even going to notice the difference from 2010-11 Kobe and 2011-12 Kobe. The difference, so far, is huge.

[Asianiac_24]

I agree, Kobe was hot garbage last season. The last time Kobe was this bad was probably 2004, and even than Kobe was better IMO. At least 04 Kobe was still a legit first team defender.

[semi-sentient]

Laker fans respond to Kobe making 1st team all-defense:

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1111443



Don't mistake the positive comments for anything other than sarcasm.