was Dr elite defensive player ?

[bastillon]

I've been watching Dr's games recently and he really seemed impressive on defense. he was really into it, he was rotating pretty well, he was amazing at contesting shots, his help defense blocks were dangerous and he could even block his own man (really impressive). his posted all time defensive statline with about 2 stls and 1.7 blks for CAREER, he wasn't bad defensive rebounder either. Doctor was also playing on top defensive teams all his career. why isn't he mentioned among elite defensive SFs ?

[mysticbb]

why isn't he mentioned among elite defensive SFs ?

Because nobody seem to care. And yes, Erving was an elite defensive SF, not so much in the sense of Pippen, but pretty close to a defensive anchor from the forward position. His teams are usually improved greatly defensively with him on the court. Probably a very underrated aspect of his game.

Well, one of the reasons might also be that defensive impact is not as easily seen and not captured by the individual boxscore stats. You really have to look into the results, the change of the defense with said player on the court to realise the impact. I want to bring in Luol Deng here, because he is also one of the best SF defender ever, he makes so few mistakes, it is pretty awesome to watch him work on the defensive end. But who really looks at that? Not many, that's why a lot of people thought he was an overpaid bum with a negative trade value back in the summer 2010.

[Dipper 13]

http://hoopshype.com/interviews/cunningham_friedman.htm


HoopsHype.com Interviews

Billy Cunningham: "It wasn't difficult to see the greatness of Julius Erving"


The 1980-81 Sixers were really one of the great defensive teams of all-time. That gets a little overlooked because of what happened in the playoffs (losing to Boston in the Eastern Conference finals). Talk a little about how great that team was defensively.

BC: I think something that I carried over from all of the coaches that I played under is that you have to remain consistent at the defensive end of the court. Offense is always going to be a situation where you are playing in spurts. That was an exceptional team defensively because we had Maurice Cheeks playing on the ball and he would pick up the point guard full court and pressure the ball. We had such quick forwards in Bobby Jones and Julius Erving that we would look to create turnovers with their great quickness and speed. Physically we weren’t as intimidating as a lot of teams but we relied a great deal on our quickness and our overall team concept on defense in terms of helping each other. With Caldwell Jones and Darryl Dawkins being back there – especially Caldwell, who had the ability to block shots and was such a smart defensive player – we were just a smart defensive team. We played the Boston Celtics 13 times that year between the regular season and the playoffs (splitting the regular season series 3-3 and losing the seventh game of the playoff series by one point).



Would you agree that Julius Erving was an underrated defender, that that part of his game was not as appreciated?

BC: Yes, and there were other examples too. Magic Johnson and Larry Bird were not good individual defensive players – Doc was a little better than they were – but they were great team defensive players, aware of what the schemes were and coming from the weak side. Julius had the great ability to block shots. His anticipation defensively for steals and creating turnovers was just wonderful and he was definitely underrated in that regard. He took a great deal of pride in his defense.



Sometimes the criticism of guys who get a lot of steals would be that when they go for the steal and don’t get it, then the defense gets broken down. Bobby Jones told me that that wasn’t the case with the Sixers because your system of traps was designed so that if one guy goes for the steal and doesn’t get it, that there is a natural rotation going on. Julius wasn’t just freelancing, he was going for steals within the system that you had and if he didn’t get it, there wasn’t a defensive breakdown.

BC: As I said earlier, we had to rely on our quickness more than physically overpowering teams. If Julius went for the steal and missed, there was supposed to be somebody there giving him support until he recovered and got back into the defensive set.

[ThaRegul8r]

I posted this before:

Just wanted to post some things on Dr. J's D...

Erving Thinking Defense, But Offense Still Shows

Twenty-five points, 15 rebounds and six assists.

Julius Erving of the New York Nets accomplished all of this in 39 minutes – and he wasn’t even trying to be an offensive threat.

“I tried to get more involved in the defense,” said Erving after leading the Nets to a 120-110 American Basketball Association victory over the Spirits of St. Louis Wednesday night.

Erving also blocked five shots and made a steal, just to keep his hand in the action at both ends of the court.

“The Spirits slowed down the pace,” Erving said, “and they put the crowd to sleep. But they weren’t going to do the same thing to me. I didn’t want to be flat, so I played a lot of roving defense — you know, tried to block shots and anticipate passes.”
(Kentucky New Era, Feb 4, 1976)

Blazers Died Under Dr. J’s Scalpel

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — It’s like watching a Ted Williams with the bat, an O.J. Simpson run a football, a Bobby Orr on skates. He’s the ultimate in his sport of basketball. He is Julius Erving, better known to an admiring public as Dr. J.

Dr. J orchestrates on the court like Eugene Ormandy with the Philadelphia Orchestra. He handles the basketball like a Leonard Bernstein at the piano. He’s a Picasso on a wooden floor, a mixture of sinew, grace, quickness and perception.

A sellout crowd of 18,276 watched this magician of basketball spill out his limitless bag of tricks Sunday in leading the Philadelphia 76ers to a 107-101 triumph over the Portland Trail Blazers in the first game of the National Basketball Association’s best-of-seven championship series.

If the victory proved anything, it was that Portland will have to find a way to defense Dr. J if the Blazers hope to survive. It wasn’t only that he scored 33 points, including 14 of 24 from the field and five of five at the foul line, or that he handed out four assists, stole the ball three times and rebounded five. It was the way he did it.

From the time that Erving, off the opening tap, swooped to the basket for a paralyzing dunk, he controlled the tempo of a very bruising confrontation between these playoff survivors. He was reminded of the one remark that one fan made entering the Spectrum.

“The 76ers can’t lose this series. Dr. J won’t let them,” the fan said.

Erving became the $6 million man when the 76ers gave the New York Nets a reported $2.5 million for him last fall and signed the Doc to an estimated $5.3 million contract for five years. But it’s not money, it’s pride that is driving him in these playoffs.

Someone asked him Sunday if in the back of his mind proving that the 76ers were the best basketball team in the world isn’t more important than his $23,000 of the winner’s pool.

“It’s in the front of my mind, not the back of my mind,” Erving replied. “I don’t think that I (personally) have to prove anything to anyone.”

Erving talked about the game as a businessman discusses an important deal—calmly, objectively, impassively.

“I just saw some daylight and I went to that daylight,” he explained to the mob of reporters surrounding him in the sweatbox of a dressing room. “I was trying to make the defense react to that. Personally, I went in spurts. I had good spurts and then cooled off.

“But I was trying to be consistent, trying to be a factor in scoring, on defense and passing. I was trying to maintain a total consciousness of how I could do the best for my team. I felt I had a chance today (Sunday) to show all my skills,” said Erving in his typical low speaking voice.

Erving did call on a lot of his skills. It’s doubtful if he used them all, because everytime you see this athlete he shows you something you’ve never seen before.

Against the Blazers, he drove for dunks, popped from outside, banked shots from the side. He did his Alley Oop number with Doug Collins, whereby he stands alongside the basket and waits for a high looping pass from Collins. The ball, and Erving leaping high like a standing high jumper, arrive above the rim at the same time. He simply pushes it through.

Then, he did his Superman routine in which he takes off from the foul line, literally flies 15 feet through the air to the basket holding the ball in one hand, finally whipping it through the hoop.

Alley Oop or Superman, the crowd stands and shakes the building with its roar of approval.

And when he wasn’t scoring, Erving harrassed the Blazers on defense with his quick hands. He also threw pin-point passes to teammates who converted them into field goals. He kept the Blazers’ defense off balance by forcing them to double team him, which opened options for other 76ers.
(The Victoria Advocate, May 24, 1977)

Defense Keeps Sixers Alive

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The Philadelphia 76ers talked about dreams and positive thinking and tempo and crowd encouragement but they are still in the National Basketball Association playoffs today because of an unbending defense.

The 76ers, often referred to as the best team money can buy, stuck with their money players Wednesday night and it paid off with a 107-94 victory over the Washington Bullets.

Philadelphia got the job done with Julius “Dr. J” Erving, Doug Collins, Caldwell Jones and Henry Bibby, not only putting the ball in the hoop, but stripping the Bullets of their high scoring offense.

[…]

Collins and Erving led the 76ers’ fastbreak offense in staving off elimination from the playoffs. And 7-foot-1 center Caldwell Jones and Erving did the defensive jobs on the Bullets’ two big guns, Elvin Hayes and Bob Dandridge.

Collins and Erving each scored 24 points. Jones shut down Hayes, who had averaged 26.3 in the first four games, with just four field goals. Hayes got but 13 shots. And Erving turned on his all his court magic to bottle Dandridge with just 12 points. Dandridge had been averaging 24.3 in the series.

Coach Billy Cunningham of the 76ers said the name of the victory was defense.

“We communicated beautifully on defense and that’s where it all stems from,” Cunningham said. “The offense was generated by the defense. And we’re going to do the same thing Friday.”
(Reading Eagle, May 11, 1978)

Doc’s Defense Grounds Celts’ High-Flying Bird

BOSTON (AP) — Julius Erving is averaging 19.8 points per game in Philadelphia’s playoff series against the Boston Celtics, and while that’s nearly five below his regular-season average, 76ers Coach Billy Cunningham couldn’t be happier about Dr. J’s play.

Erving’s ability to get his teammates involved in the offense and his success in harassing Celtics star Larry Bird on defense have helped the 76ers move to a 3-1 lead over Boston in their National Basketball Association Eastern Conference showdown.

The 76ers, who took the homecourt advantage away from the Celtics by winning the opener 105-104 last Tuesday, can wrap up the best-of-seven conference final with another victory at Boston Garden tonight. If the Celtics win, the series shifts back to Philadelphia for Game 6 Friday night.

So far the big move in the series has been Cunningham’s decision, after watching Bird score 67 points in the first two games, to switch the assignment of guarding Boston’s 6-foot-9 forward from 7-footer Caldwell Jones to the 6-7 Erving. While Jones is noted for his defensive prowess and Erving is not, Cunningham said he never hesitated about making the change.

“Larry was shooting the ball from so far out on the court,” Cunningham explained, “I felt Caldwell was not able to guard him and also do the job on the defensive boards. So what choice did I have? I had to put Erving on him.”

The move couldn’t have worked better. Erving’s defense has helped limit Bird to 40 points and kept him from being a dominant force in either of the last two games, while Jones’ rebounding and shot-blocking have enabled the 76ers to cope with Boston’s strong inside game. And the bottom line is that Philadelphia won both games to assume a commanding position in this series — only three teams in NBA history (Boston in 1968, Los Angeles in 1970 and Washington in 1979) have come back from 3-1 deficits to win playoff series.

Although having to work so hard on the defensive end may have cut into Erving’s point production, Cunningham says it’s a worthwhile tradeoff.
(Reading Eagle, Apr 29, 1981)

Julius Erving, once considered a defensive liability, totally controlled Jamaal Wilkes, forcing the Lakers' secret weapon to shoot off-balance jumpers.
(Jun 2, 1983)

Over the years, millions of fans have watched Julius Erving's electrifying offense lift the 76ers to victory after victory. But you could probably count on one hand the number of people who have looked to the Doctor for his defense. And yet, yesterday afternoon, in front of 20,124 screaming, hostile fans at the Pontiac Silverdome and millions more watching on national television, Erving made two superb defensive plays to protect a slim lead and give the Sixers a 109-108 victory over the Detroit Pistons.
(Dec 26, 1984)

From APBRmetrics:

Julius Erving's D?

I noticed that he averaged 1.5spg and 1.8bpg in his 11 seasons in the NBA (which started at age 26, and probably hurt his career stats overall).

Was he a better defender than given credit for? Maybe not a man to man lock up type, but an excellent team defender/solid man defender at worst?

How much of Julius stats reflect his actual defensive ability and value to a team? It seems in the 1983 playoffs he wasn't really any better than Maurice Cheeks on offense, but his defensive numbers were very good. I am aware that Cheeks was on ALL-defensive teams, but perhaps Julius was even more valuable as a team defender for that 83 title team?
(Nikos. “Julis Erving’s D?” APBRmetrics. 14 Jul 2005. http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/vi ... .php?t=291)

I noticed that he (Erving) averaged 1.5 spg and 1.8 bpg in his 11 seasons in the NBA (which started at age 26, and probably hurt his career stats overall).

Was he a better defender than given credit for? Maybe not a man to man lock up type, but an excellent team defender/solid man defender at worst?

How much of Julius stats reflect his actual defensive ability and value to a team?

from 76-77 to 83-84, erving's first 8 seasons in the nba (but his 6th thru 13th seasons as a pro), he had 2192 ST+BS, 2nd behind jabbar amongst all players during that time. that's averaging 148 ST and 126 BS each season, and he played only 35 min/g over those 8 seasons...

i don't know what he's been "...given credit for..." but i've always thought of julius erving as a better than average man to man defender and an excellent team defender. that many great defensive-type impact plays (ST and BS) make up for many defensive woes - not that he had many....

and that many ST and BS are very valuable to a team. from 78-79 to 83-84 as a member of the 76ers bobby jones got almost as many ST+BS as erving did, and here are how the 76ers ranked in defensive points per possession allowed in the late 70s/early 80s:

77-78 7th
78-79 2nd
79-80 2nd
80-81 2nd
81-82 8th
82-83 5th
83-84 4th

during these 7 seasons the 76ers won 69% of their regular season games, the best overall winning percentage for the regular season of all teams during that stretch...
(bchaikin. “Re: Julis Erving’s D?” APBRmetrics. 14 Jul 2005. http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/vi ... .php?t=291)

i don't know what he's been "...given credit for..." but i've always thought of julius erving as a better than average man to man defender and an excellent team defender. that many great defensive-type impact plays (ST and BS) make up for many defensive woes - not that he had many....

I'll second that emotion. The blocks and steals came from sheer athleticism, but Doc was a smart and tenacious defender, down on the block or out on the perimeter. Bobby Jones usually got the tougher matchup, but both he and Doc were the key to the great defense of those 76er teams.
(moneyp. “Re: Julis Erving’s D?” APBRmetrics. 15 Jul 2005. http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/vi ... .php?t=291)

It's funny how clueless the media is sometimes. In 1985, this was written:

Erving may not be the dominant scorer he once was, but he has become a better defender. The 6-foot-6 forward was the only NBA player this season to record over 100 steals and 100 blocked shots. He says that is nothing new.

“Year in and year out in terms of those stats I’m generally leading all the forwards in the league,” he said. “It’s something generally not noticed or something I’m not given credit for but those defensive numbers have been there all along.”

"Erving has become a better defender. He was the only NBA player to have over 100 steals and 100 blocked shots this season."

Erving: Um... actually... I've been doing that for some time now. You just never noticed before.

[turk3d]

Erving, due to his hop and shot blocking ability, was like having another Center in there who intimidated players when coming into the paint. Sometimes that skill gets pushed aside when looking at a players defense (as is steals) so although I don't think he was great for much of his career, he was definitely underrated imo and improved throughout the years. Of course, we all know that most people are attracted to offensive skills.

[bastillon]

Erving, due to his hop and shot blocking ability, was like having another Center in there who intimidated players when coming into the paint. Sometimes that skill gets pushed aside when looking at a players defense (as is steals) so although I don't think he was great for much of his career, he was definitely underrated imo and improved throughout the years. Of course, we all know that most people are attracted to offensive skills.

improved over the years ? that's highly unlikely possibility.

[Warspite]

With his quickness, heart and those huge hands its hard to imagine DrJ not being an awsome defender.

Everyone sees those break away dunk highlights of DrJ but what they dont see is that the highlight dunk only happens after a DrJ block or steal. The dunk on Cooper is a great example. You see the windmill tomahawk dunk but before hand he jumped into the passing lane and picked Magics pass.

[ronnymac2]

Erving was a very good help defender. He blocked shots, changed shots, and could play the passing lanes. He was also an excellent defensive rebounder at SF.

From what I have seen, however, he was merely an average man defender.

Judging his defense at the SF position in an all-time sense, I'd say he was very good- a useful defensive piece for any team. I wouldn't go so far as to say he was an elite all-time defender at the position.

[bastillon]

Erving was a very good help defender. He blocked shots, changed shots, and could play the passing lanes. He was also an excellent defensive rebounder at SF.

From what I have seen, however, he was merely an average man defender.

Judging his defense at the SF position in an all-time sense, I'd say he was very good- a useful defensive piece for any team. I wouldn't go so far as to say he was an elite all-time defender at the position.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on Dr J vs LeBron on defense.

[ronnymac2]

I'd rate LBJ higher defensively. James imo is a better man defender.

To my knowledge, Erving never slowed down a scorer of Paul Pierce's caliber in the playoffs. Dandridge and Wilkes aren't near Pierce as a scorer, and Erving didn't contain Bird for the majority of the series above (talking about Reg's post) like James has done with Pierce in the past- the 40-point game 7 notwithstanding.

I also love LeBron's ability to close out on 3-point shooters. He could close out stretch 4's, pgs, and anything in between. Erving never played in a 3-point attempt-heavy era, and I can certainly imagine Doc being very good at it as well, but James consistently does an elite job at that task. I have to give him credit for that.

[bastillon]

I'd rate LBJ higher defensively. James imo is a better man defender.

To my knowledge, Erving never slowed down a scorer of Paul Pierce's caliber in the playoffs. Dandridge and Wilkes aren't near Pierce as a scorer, and Erving didn't contain Bird for the majority of the series above (talking about Reg's post) like James has done with Pierce in the past- the 40-point game 7 notwithstanding.

I also love LeBron's ability to close out on 3-point shooters. He could close out stretch 4's, pgs, and anything in between. Erving never played in a 3-point attempt-heavy era, and I can certainly imagine Doc being very good at it as well, but James consistently does an elite job at that task. I have to give him credit for that.

Bird's series vs Sixers were pretty poor though. he got outplayed by Dr most of the time.

[JordansBulls]

I'd rate LBJ higher defensively. James imo is a better man defender.

To my knowledge, Erving never slowed down a scorer of Paul Pierce's caliber in the playoffs. Dandridge and Wilkes aren't near Pierce as a scorer, and Erving didn't contain Bird for the majority of the series above (talking about Reg's post) like James has done with Pierce in the past- the 40-point game 7 notwithstanding.

I also love LeBron's ability to close out on 3-point shooters. He could close out stretch 4's, pgs, and anything in between. Erving never played in a 3-point attempt-heavy era, and I can certainly imagine Doc being very good at it as well, but James consistently does an elite job at that task. I have to give him credit for that.

Its not like Pierce is an explosive scorer.

[turk3d]

Erving, due to his hop and shot blocking ability, was like having another Center in there who intimidated players when coming into the paint. Sometimes that skill gets pushed aside when looking at a players defense (as is steals) so although I don't think he was great for much of his career, he was definitely underrated imo and improved throughout the years. Of course, we all know that most people are attracted to offensive skills.

improved over the years ? that's highly unlikely possibility.

Not at all. It's just a matter of focusing on it. When he came into the league, he was more focused on scoring. As he matured, he started to pay more attention to defense, especially when he got to the NBA and especially when he came to the 6ers, which were a more defensive oriented team. The ABA was less about D than the NBA even today, as it was all about high scoring and spectacular plays. Most teams concentrated on just scoring and no D, except for a few.

[turk3d]

I'd rate LBJ higher defensively. James imo is a better man defender.

To my knowledge, Erving never slowed down a scorer of Paul Pierce's caliber in the playoffs. Dandridge and Wilkes aren't near Pierce as a scorer, and Erving didn't contain Bird for the majority of the series above (talking about Reg's post) like James has done with Pierce in the past- the 40-point game 7 notwithstanding.

I also love LeBron's ability to close out on 3-point shooters. He could close out stretch 4's, pgs, and anything in between. Erving never played in a 3-point attempt-heavy era, and I can certainly imagine Doc being very good at it as well, but James consistently does an elite job at that task. I have to give him credit for that.

Bobby Jones was the elite defender who was the guy they put on the guy they wanted to stop. Erving was more of a help defender who could block shots and get back on the fat break due to his speed. Never was asked to do too much one on one because he was so important in having that 2nd shot blocker down in the paint (average over 2 bpg throughout his career).

[bastillon]

Erving, due to his hop and shot blocking ability, was like having another Center in there who intimidated players when coming into the paint. Sometimes that skill gets pushed aside when looking at a players defense (as is steals) so although I don't think he was great for much of his career, he was definitely underrated imo and improved throughout the years. Of course, we all know that most people are attracted to offensive skills.

improved over the years ? that's highly unlikely possibility.

Not at all. It's just a matter of focusing on it. When he came into the league, he was more focused on scoring. As he matured, he started to pay more attention to defense, especially when he got to the NBA and especially when he came to the 6ers, which were a more defensive oriented team. The ABA was less about D than the NBA even today, as it was all about high scoring and spectacular plays. Most teams concentrated on just scoring and no D, except for a few.

that's a myth. in 77 the best defenses in the NBA were Gilmore's Bulls, Dr J's Sixers and Nuggets team that came in tact from the ABA. when healthy, Blazers were probably the best defense and Lucas was their key player (Gilmore's teammate from '75 title team).

also, Dr J was posting amazing defensive stats on the Sixers who also happened to be one of the best defensive teams in the ABA. when you're grabbing 19% of possible defensive rebounds (that takes opp's ORB into account), stealing 2.7% of opp's possessions and blocking 2.7% of opp's shots and at the same time you're playing on a team with avg -4.6 DRTG relative to league average (dominant mark and by far the best defense in the ABA during that stretch), it's pretty safe to assume you have a great defensive impact.