2012-13 Player of the Year Discussion Thread

[Doctor MJ]

It's that time again: Time for us to decide the true Player of the Year. The Ballon d'Or of the NBA. Not just using the regular season like a bunch of fools, but using it all.

Voting:

Give your top 5 players for the whole season. The rules for standards remain the same: loose but still with the insistence that you judge based on what a player actually contributed this year.

Classic example: Wilt Chamberlain in '69 might have been the most capable player in the world, but what he did on the '69 Lakers really didn't help them very much. It would not be appropriate to judge him on what he might have done in some other context alone.

Voting Panel: PM me if you want to be a voter. If you PM me that in the near future and participate in the Discussion thread, I'll probably approve you as a judge and count your vote when I make the Voting thread after the Finals.

Genteman start your engines!

[therealbig3]

Mine right now would be

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Curry
5. Wade

Harden disappointed me, although I can understand why some would be willing to give him somewhat of a pass. We'll see how Curry does against SA...if he still plays well in a losing effort, I don't see how he doesn't go over Harden.

Wade was just non-existent in the 1st round, mainly because he didn't really have to do anything. I expect him to play much better and move up to 4th, but as of right now, I've gotta side with Curry.

Melo is the last contender for the top 5, and he was terrible against the Celtics. Don't see him doing any better against Indiana, and actually I expect him to do worse. He's once again underwhelming in the playoffs. Maybe he can prove me wrong though.

[ardee]

My preliminary list is probably:

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Paul
4. Duncan
5. Curry

It's probably a little too reactionary. I had Kobe and Harden at the final two spots but we know what happened. Wade and Melo were both meh.

It's funny, this was supposed to be an epic season in terms of talent if you remember the first few months, but the field has become pretty thin now.

[therealbig3]

I personally have trouble putting any Spurs player (be it Duncan or Parker) in the top 5, simply because I think the MVP of the Spurs for the last few years has been Popovich. That team wins regardless of who plays. Duncan was considered MVP of the team when he started off the season great...he gets injured...team doesn't miss a beat. Then Parker is propped up as the "real" MVP of the time and some silly people actually want to put him over LeBron as MVP of the league...he gets injured...team still doesn't miss a beat. I think Duncan (at this point in his career) and Parker look A LOT worse under any other coach.

[JordansBulls]

1. Lebron

2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Wade
5. Harden

As of now this is my rankings could change based on the playoffs though.

[E-Balla]

Mine right now would be

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Curry
5. Wade

Harden disappointed me, although I can understand why some would be willing to give him somewhat of a pass. We'll see how Curry does against SA...if he still plays well in a losing effort, I don't see how he doesn't go over Harden.

Wade was just non-existent in the 1st round, mainly because he didn't really have to do anything. I expect him to play much better and move up to 4th, but as of right now, I've gotta side with Curry.

Melo is the last contender for the top 5, and he was terrible against the Celtics. Don't see him doing any better against Indiana, and actually I expect him to do worse. He's once again underwhelming in the playoffs. Maybe he can prove me wrong though.

So Melo isn't top 5 because of a below average first round but Wade (who was hot garbage and missed a game) is over him?

[CBA]

So Melo isn't top 5 because of a below average first round but Wade (who was hot garbage and missed a game) is over him?

Not that I think Melo was a Top 5 player this year, but people will always be slaves to the moment.

[Doctor MJ]

Mine right now would be

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Curry
5. Wade

Harden disappointed me, although I can understand why some would be willing to give him somewhat of a pass. We'll see how Curry does against SA...if he still plays well in a losing effort, I don't see how he doesn't go over Harden.

Wade was just non-existent in the 1st round, mainly because he didn't really have to do anything. I expect him to play much better and move up to 4th, but as of right now, I've gotta side with Curry.

Melo is the last contender for the top 5, and he was terrible against the Celtics. Don't see him doing any better against Indiana, and actually I expect him to do worse. He's once again underwhelming in the playoffs. Maybe he can prove me wrong though.

So Melo isn't top 5 because of a below average first round but Wade (who was hot garbage and missed a game) is over him?

Fundamental question: Do you understand what the case for Wade is?

It's fine if you don't buy into it, but because Wade & Melo are in very different situations their candidacies are going to be affected differently by stuff like this.

[E-Balla]

I understand Wade's case as much as I disagree. That doesn't excuse a horrible playoff performance though especially when your using that against someone else.

[therealbig3]

So Melo isn't top 5 because of a below average first round but Wade (who was hot garbage and missed a game) is over him?

Not that I think Melo was a Top 5 player this year, but people will always be slaves to the moment.

Well, first of all, the RPOY kind of is a "prisoner of the moment" thing, because of the emphasis on the playoffs, which is a small sample size to begin with, and our impression of players based on their playoffs can change game by game, pretty much.

Second of all, Wade had one bad game in the 1st round...Melo had 3. Wade's numbers are heavily skewed by an absolutely horrible game 3...in which his team won by double digits anyway. He just wasn't necessary in that series...LeBron might not have been necessary in that series either. I'm judging Wade based on the rest of the playoffs, not on what he does against Milwaukee.

And I've had Wade over Melo throughout the regular season.

[therealbig3]

I understand Wade's case as much as I disagree. That doesn't excuse a horrible playoff performance though especially when your using that against someone else.

They were both horrible in the 1st round.

Wade was better in the regular season. So Wade's better as of right now. That's my reasoning.

[E-Balla]

I understand Wade's case as much as I disagree. That doesn't excuse a horrible playoff performance though especially when your using that against someone else.

They were both horrible in the 1st round.

Wade was better in the regular season. So Wade's better as of right now. That's my reasoning.

Ok. I thought you were saying that you had Melo at 5th until the playoffs.

So Melo isn't top 5 because of a below average first round but Wade (who was hot garbage and missed a game) is over him?

Not that I think Melo was a Top 5 player this year, but people will always be slaves to the moment.

Well, first of all, the RPOY kind of is a "prisoner of the moment" thing, because of the emphasis on the playoffs, which is a small sample size to begin with, and our impression of players based on their playoffs can change game by game, pretty much.

Second of all, Wade had one bad game in the 1st round...Melo had 3. Wade's numbers are heavily skewed by an absolutely horrible game 3...in which his team won by double digits anyway. He just wasn't necessary in that series...LeBron might not have been necessary in that series either. I'm judging Wade based on the rest of the playoffs, not on what he does against Milwaukee.

And I've had Wade over Melo throughout the regular season.

3 bad games? Games 1 and 2 were both great, game 3 was good, games 4 and 5 sucked, and game 6 was exactly what everyone says they want to see from Melo (great playmaking because his shot wasn't falling).

Meanwhile Wade was good in one game, ok in game 2, and completely horrible in game 3. Then he missed a game.


And Melo had a good first half so far. They wouldn't give him a call inside at all but if this is the Melo we see he'll start getting calls and dominate.

[Mikey111690]

1. LeBron


2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Duncan
5. Harden

[Vinsanity420]

Is Duncan's 30 MPG enough to make him a Top 5 player? He can't really handle big minutes anymore, at the level of like, James Harden or Carmelo... so basically you would've to be saying that you would take Duncan's restricted playing time over anyone else below him.

Also... what makes Curry better than Harden or Wade?

[Doctor MJ]

Looks like I lost a post in there. Oh well. I was given my general thoughts. Pretty similar to realbig's. Where I differ:

I'd still put Curry outside the top 5 at this point (and so Wade & Melo are in). If Curry keeps this up against the Spurs, he has a very good chance at cracking my top 5.

Clarifying more on my judgement of Wade in the 1st round: It's similar to LeBron, Duncan and Parker. These teams coasted against teams we don't care about. If these players look far more impressive in more serious series, how can it make sense to knock them based on what they did at a series where additional effort would not have changed the result meaningfully?

Shout out to the two bigs Gasol & Noah. I doubt they'll become super-serious threats for the top 5, but top 10 seems likely at this point.

[B_Creamy]

Top 5
1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. CP3
4. Wade
5. Harden

Duncan and Curry I feel are clearly ahead of the next group (Melo, Parker, Gasol)

On Melo: I had Melo as my 9th best player in the Regular season behind the top 5, Duncan, Parker and Kobe. He's been completely underwhelming in the playoffs (or rather, par for the course in his career). I'd definitely like to hear arguments in favor of Melo over Harden.

On Curry: I had him as my 10th best player in the Regular season but his first round has really made me reevaluate his post All Star game stretch. It doesn't look like a hot streak right now. Just skill.

[CBA]

So Melo isn't top 5 because of a below average first round but Wade (who was hot garbage and missed a game) is over him?

Not that I think Melo was a Top 5 player this year, but people will always be slaves to the moment.

Well, first of all, the RPOY kind of is a "prisoner of the moment" thing, because of the emphasis on the playoffs, which is a small sample size to begin with, and our impression of players based on their playoffs can change game by game, pretty much.

Second of all, Wade had one bad game in the 1st round...Melo had 3. Wade's numbers are heavily skewed by an absolutely horrible game 3...in which his team won by double digits anyway. He just wasn't necessary in that series...LeBron might not have been necessary in that series either. I'm judging Wade based on the rest of the playoffs, not on what he does against Milwaukee.

And I've had Wade over Melo throughout the regular season.

Your impression of a player shouldn't change game to game. The whole idea is ridiculous.

It's another data point, not the entire set.

[TheChosen618]

As of now, my top 5 would be....

1. Lebron
2. KD
3. CP3
4. Curry
5. Melo

This is just as of now, I do think that when the playoffs are over that Wade will be #4 or #5. Curry could easily end up dropping out completely. He went up against a weaker defensive opponent in the 1st round in the Nuggets. He was tremendous, but he'll have a much bigger challenge going up against the Spurs especially as the #1 target. I thought Curry was snubbed of an all-star appearance and I said all year long that he was a top 10 player in the league. His biggest issue has always been his durability, so far this season he has been healthy and he has been producing.

I have Melo above Wade as of now because Melo was better in the regular season to me. He was just more consistent and had to carry more of a load. Wade overall as a player is still obviously better, but this is more so because of his past experiences and accomplishments. So far in the post-season, they have been pretty much equals, with a probable slight edge to Melo. Melo has been inefficient and playing below his par, but so has Wade and Wade also missed a game and the Heat didn't miss a beat without him.

And the first 3 should be fairly obvious with no explanation necessary, but I will explain if one wants to ask.

[Narigo]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Chris Paul
4. Tony Parker
5. Tim Duncan or Carmelo Anthony or James Harden

Melo and Harden had great regular season but disappointing playoffs so I might put both of them at 5th spot. Kobe and Westbrook had season ending injuries so i might not consider them.

Wade is currently battling knee problems but might be top 5 depending on how he plays for the rest of the postseason.

So I put Tony Parker 4th because i was so impressed on what he done in the regular season despite the injury. I know the Spurs are doing well without him but it might be because the Spurs has a stack team to begin with. He is currently having a good quiet postseason as well.

[lorak]

Voting Panel: PM me if you want to be a voter. If you PM me that in the near future and participate in the Discussion thread, I'll probably approve you as a judge and count your vote when I make the Voting thread after the Finals.

Everyone who participated during original project should be allowed to vote now.