Peak Bogut vs Peak Marc Gasol?

[RebelWithACause]

Who is the overall better player ?
Better defender ?
Better scorer ?
Better passer ?

[Dr Positivity]

Defense - slight edge Bogut, but offensively I easily prefer Marc's skill game, so edge Marc handily

[GRITnGRIND]

Defense - slight edge Bogut, but offensively I easily prefer Marc's skill game, so edge Marc handily

I would agree. Marc's defense is solid, but it's slightly overrated, especially now that he's won DPOY. His help defense is as good as it gets, but his man to man leaves a little to be desired. Nothing to complain about, but could be better. Bogut deserves a lot more credit for his defensive play over the years than what he's gotten.

Better scorer is definitely Marc. His range is ridiculous. Bogut isn't garbage offensively by any means, but Marc is just that good.

Marc's passing is ridiculous too. Often gets called a "point center" for a reason.

Bogut doesn't get the respect he deserves a lot of times, similar to how Gasol used to be overlooked, but I don't think he's quite on Gasol's level.

[Doormatt]

i dont really see this at all, bogut has a non-existent offensive game while gasol is one of the better offensive centers in the league with a real nice all around game. defensively slight edge to bogut, scoring huge edge to gasol, and passing goes to gasol as well.

[RebelWithACause]

i dont really see this at all, bogut has a non-existent offensive game while gasol is one of the better offensive centers in the league with a real nice all around game. defensively slight edge to bogut, scoring huge edge to gasol, and passing goes to gasol as well.

I was thinking more of a pre-injury Bogut!
So yeah, back then Bogut was quite a good offensive player as well!

[Doormatt]

boguts offense is pretty garbage. hes finished with a negative offensive RAPM since like 2010, has incredibly limited post moves, absolutely no range or scoring ability past 9 feet, and outside of being an above average passer doesnt bring much to a teams offense. its not like hes a dominant scorer close up either, gasol finishes around the rim better as well. compared to gasol i think boguts offense looks pretty garbage tbh.

[Doormatt]

what are we saying boguts peak is? 2009? 2010? either way his offense is pretty much a non starter no matter which year you pick.

fun fact bogut has only finished with a positive offensive RAPM once in his career, 2010, where he was +0.1.

[RebelWithACause]

boguts offense is pretty garbage. hes finished with a negative offensive RAPM since like 2010, has incredibly limited post moves, absolutely no range or scoring ability past 9 feet, and outside of being an above average passer doesnt bring much to a teams offense. its not like hes a dominant scorer close up either, gasol finishes around the rim better as well. compared to gasol i think boguts offense looks pretty garbage tbh.

Gasol in his best season managed 15 ppg on 62 % TS in 2010!
Outside of that his best seasons are 15 ppg on 54 % TS and 14 ppg on 56 % TS!

Bogut respectively managed 16 ppg on 54 % TS in his best scoring season, followed by 12 ppg on 59 % TS and 13 ppg on 57 % TS!

Scoring wise Gasol has a small advantage, and passing wise as well!
But certainly Bogut does not look garbage on offense compared to Gasol!
So your statement is either false or hyperbole!

[Jase]

Bogut was the better defensive player in his prime, but everything else.....Gasol gets the nod. He is an underrated passer for his position, he has a very reliable jump shot, and he has a great BBIQ.

I think most of us were waiting to see how much better Bogut would become, then the PHX injury came, and that was the end of that.

[LikeABosh]

I give Bogut a clear edge in defense/rebounding....Gasol is better at everything else. Better scorer, better passer, much better FT shooter/better jump shooter....maybe if we were to magically make both players equally healthy then Bogut has an argument, but sadly that's not gonna happen

[ThatsWhatIShved]

what are we saying boguts peak is? 2009? 2010? either way his offense is pretty much a non starter no matter which year you pick.

fun fact bogut has only finished with a positive offensive RAPM once in his career, 2010, where he was +0.1.

He was playing with an awful Bucks supporting cast. Brandon Jennings was leading the team in FGA, nuff said. Bogut would look a lot better with Zbo drawing doubles next to him, and a great Grizz guard rotation. Gasol is clearly the better offensive player, but using ORAPM makes no sense.

[Doormatt]

i wouldnt really count Boguts efficiency in 09, he only played 36 games that year. 62TS% is a pretty huge difference to compared to the other seasons bogut put up, thats a lot more efficient, especially when you consider marc is a good free throw shooter and can actually spread the floor to some degree.

[GSP]

what are we saying boguts peak is? 2009? 2010? either way his offense is pretty much a non starter no matter which year you pick.

fun fact bogut has only finished with a positive offensive RAPM once in his career, 2010, where he was +0.1.

Marcs offensive Rapm this season is 0.1............and hes not on Boguts league defensively who was he equal of peak Dwight on defense. Unless you think Marc has a better season that 13 why take him over Bogut?

[RebelWithACause]

i wouldnt really count Boguts efficiency in 09, he only played 36 games that year. 62TS% is a pretty huge difference to compared to the other seasons bogut put up, thats a lot more efficient, especially when you consider marc is a good free throw shooter and can actually spread the floor to some degree.

To be fair here, Bogut was assisted about 55 % in his best scoring seasons, whereas Gasol was assisted about 65 % during his best scoring seasons!

So that kind of makes up for the efficiency gap!

[RebelWithACause]

Bogut gets the clear advantage defensively over Gasol due to his rebounding, blocking and man to man defense!

Scoring wise they are pretty much equal when they are both at their best! You could argue that Gasol has a slight advantage here, but I think that comes with Conley/ Jennings as their point guards and the supporting cast!

Passing wise I give the the edge to Gasol.

So yeah, overall I would prefer Bogut!

[sixerswillrule]

Peak Bogut (09-10) was excellent. A PER of 21, one of the best defensive players in the league, and averaged 16 points with 52% from the field. Not getting to the line much and a low FT% hurt his TS% but he had a very good offensive game. Why people are pointing out how he played after the arm injury, I don't know.

[Doormatt]

what are we saying boguts peak is? 2009? 2010? either way his offense is pretty much a non starter no matter which year you pick.

fun fact bogut has only finished with a positive offensive RAPM once in his career, 2010, where he was +0.1.

Marcs offensive Rapm this season is 0.1............and hes not on Boguts league defensively who was he equal of peak Dwight on defense. Unless you think Marc has a better season that 13 why take him over Bogut?

because hes a lot better offensively, and i was using that mostly as a point to show that bogut has never been a good offensive player, not by box score or advanced metrics.

marc has the range on bogut, he has passing on bogut, hes got shooting and post moves + superior ability to finish up close. he does everything on offense better while being a more skilled and versatile player. hes a more efficient scorer and hes showing that he can mantain that to a certain degree in the playoffs (18 ppg on 55TS% this year, 15ppg on 60TS% last year). hes just a way better and more capable scorer and offensive player.

[Wooderson]

Peak Bogut (09-10) was excellent. A PER of 21, one of the best defensive players in the league, and averaged 16 points with 52% from the field. Not getting to the line much and a low FT% hurt his TS% but he had a very good offensive game. Why people are pointing out how he played after the arm injury, I don't know.

Yep. 09-10 is really the only year we saw peak Bogut before he destroyed his elbow. That Bogut vs. Gasol this year is very close. Bogut has the edge on defense while Gasol has edge on offense. And Bogut in 09-10 was at a TS of .540, and was much better than that the 2nd half of the year after the Bucks got Salmons (who played like an all-star after the Bucks traded for him).

Gasol also had a much, much better supporting cast. Bogut anchored the 2nd best defense in the entire league that year with Jennings/Ridnour/Salmons/Moute/Ersan as his teammates, Moute was superb on D that year but the rest were average to well below average defenders.

Wish we could have seen Bogut play a few more years at that level without the elbow injury, unfortunately it wasn't meant to be.

[Wooderson]

because hes a lot better offensively, and i was using that mostly as a point to show that bogut has never been a good offensive player, not by box score or advanced metrics.

marc has the range on bogut, he has passing on bogut, hes got shooting and post moves + superior ability to finish up close. he does everything on offense better while being a more skilled and versatile player. hes a more efficient scorer and hes showing that he can mantain that to a certain degree in the playoffs (18 ppg on 55TS% this year, 15ppg on 60TS% last year). hes just a way better and more capable scorer and offensive player.

Bogut was 16 ppg on .54 TS% while being a better offensive rebounder. He was also one of the best passing big men in the league that year as well. Gasol was a better offensive player because of his slight edge in efficiency as well as range which spreads the floor, but Bogut was solid in his own right. He's been a terrible offensive player since dislocating his elbow, but that's not really relevant to the discussion.

[Doormatt]

i wouldnt call gasols efficiency slight, its pretty big.