Defense: Gasol/Zbo/Prince v. Hibbert/West/George

mopper8 · Post #1 » by **mopper8** » Mon May 20, 2013 5:21 pm

Talking defense only, which front court is better? Not concerned with guard play either, take Tony Allen out of the equation here. Both teams have have a rim protecting C who is decently mobile in the lane but not the most laterally quick. Both teams have a PF who's not great defensively but can maintain post position and grab boards (though Zbo has a clear edge on the defensive glass. 25 to 18 Drb%). Both teams have long, athletic 3s who are excellent defensively.

If you wanted to build a defense, which front court would you start with?

Something to think about: Indy was the #1 ranked D, and Memphis the #2, this season, difference of .5 points per 100 possessions. But Memphis boasts Tony Allen in their backcourt, who is an impact defender, whereas Indy doesn't really have a similar player. On the other hand, I believe Memphis' defense improved post-Rudy trade, so their season numbers might not accurately represent their true level.

Brooklyn718 · Post #2 » by **Brooklyn718** » Mon May 20, 2013 5:34 pm

I think this is obviously in favor of Indiana due to Zach Randolph being the odd man out. No, Durant didn't face as tough a defense than Carmelo did which was evident last night! j/k

sorry had to do it!

SideshowBob · Post #3 » by **SideshowBob** » Mon May 20, 2013 7:51 pm

Here's what I have on Memphis (not including playoffs)

Pre Trade (42 G)

+4.67 SRS, -6.2 Defense

Post Trade (37 G)

+4.73 SRS, -4.6 Defense

Spoiler:

Allen/Conley/Gasol/Randolph + Gay IN (Prince OUT) (35 G)

+5.77 SRS, -5.7 Defense

Allen/Conley/Gasol/Randolph + Prince IN (Gay OUT) (31 G)

+4.87 SRS, -5.8 Defense

SideshowBob · Post #4 » by **SideshowBob** » Mon May 20, 2013 10:44 pm

Including Playoffs

Spoiler:

1st Round (6 G)

Spoiler:

2nd Round (5 G)***

Spoiler:

Conference Finals (1 G)

Spoiler:

**OKC is clearly a much worse team without Westbrook, so everything in the 2nd round is inflated. We could adjust, but it depends on where you peg Westbrook's value to the team (IMO he's a +3.5-4 SRS guy, so they should have played like a 6 SRS team without him).

GSP · Post #5 » by **GSP** » Mon May 20, 2013 10:49 pm

SideshowBob wrote:Including Playoffs

Spoiler:
Post Trade (49 G)

+6.18 SRS, +1.6 Offense, -4.8 Defense

Allen/Conley/Gasol/Randolph + Prince IN (Gay OUT) (43 G)

+6.49 SRS, +1.0 Offense, -5.7 Defense

1st Round (6 G)

Spoiler:
+11.93 SRS, +11.1 Offense, -2.2 Defense

2nd Round (5 G)***

Spoiler:
+13.75 SRS, -0.1 Offense, -14.2 Defense

Conference Finals (1 G)

Spoiler:
-12.33 SRS, -1.4 Offense, +18.4 Defense

**OKC is clearly a much worse team without Westbrook, so everything in the 2nd round is inflated. We could adjust, but it depends on where you peg Westbrook's value to the team (IMO he's a +3.5-4 SRS guy, so they should have played like a 6 SRS team without him).

Interesting info here. BTW what would you assign Kd's Srs as?

SideshowBob · Post #6 » by **SideshowBob** » Mon May 20, 2013 10:56 pm

GSP wrote:Interesting info here. BTW what would you assign Kd's Srs as?

I dunno. I've felt like +5.5-6.0 all season long, right in the realm of peak Bryant/McGrady, maybe a tad bit lower than Wade.

lukekarts · Post #7 » by **lukekarts** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:02 am

I think Indiana. They have two of the top 3 defenders here; and West IMO is still a pretty good defensive player - especially relative to the PF position.

Memphis does have the better defensive backcourt, but the reason Indiana are the #1 ranked D is because of their front court.

daschysta · Post #8 » by **daschysta** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:30 am

Indiana is

#1 in fg% (.420 vs. .435)
#1 in 3p% (.327 vs. .338)
#1 in DRTG (96.6 vs. 97.4)
#1 in RPG (45.9 vs. 42.7)
#1 in Rebounding% (52.9 vs. 52.2)
#1 in opp fg% 5 feet and in (52.4 vs. 57.8)
#1 in opp fast break points (10.1 vs. 12.4)

Indiana's defense is simply better period.

Indy's front court defense is MUCH better, unless you want to contend Stephenson and Hill are better than Conley and Allen on that end.

Laimbeer · Post #9 » by **Laimbeer** » Tue May 21, 2013 10:36 am

Indiana pretty easily. Whatever edge Gasol has isn't big, Zbo is Zbo, and a lot of folks don't realize Tay isn't a particularly good defender these days. He's probably been a tad overrated all along. Few players ever got as much mileage from a blocked shot as Tay did from the Miller block.

GreenHat · Post #10 » by **GreenHat** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:43 pm

I'd go with Indiana as well. George is a lot better than Prince and I think that's the difference.

Post #11 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue May 21, 2013 8:54 pm

I actually think the difference between Gasol and Hibbert is getting undersold here. Not only does Gasol anchor the Grizz D he also orchestrates it. That said West and George are a big improvement over Zbo and Prince and this is clearly Indiana.

I think the Reggie block is over-dramatized much like the Mike completely unnecessary hand-switching layup that we see too much but Prince was a really good defender in his prime and is still a smart and long guy.

daschysta · Post #12 » by **daschysta** » Tue May 21, 2013 9:42 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:I actually think the difference between Gasol and Hibbert is getting undersold here. Not only does Gasol anchor the Grizz D he also orchestrates it. That said West and George are a big improvement over Zbo and Prince and this is clearly Indiana.

I think the Reggie block is over-dramatized much like the Mike completely unnecessary hand-switching layup that we see too much but Prince was a really good defender in his prime and is still a smart and long guy.

Defensively there really isn't a big difference. Hibbert is much better at two things that are pretty key, rebounding, including defensive rebounding, and rim protection. Gasol has two huge advantages too as is more mobile and can get out on shooters and play the pick and roll better. They are pretty comparable defensively. Hibbert is the centerpiece of the best defense in the NBA, if Marc is better defensively it isn't by much.

NaturalThunder · Post #13 » by **NaturalThunder** » Tue May 21, 2013 11:22 pm

If you look at it like this, Indiana is the pretty clear choice. But this excludes Tony Allen and Conley which takes away a lot from the Grizz.

Post #14 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue May 21, 2013 11:23 pm

rebounding thing is not quite so clear because Zbo is such a good rebounder and Gasol isnt the kind of guy who fights teammates for rebounding. And Im not saying Hibbert isnt good defensively because he is but I think Gasol would definitely do a better job without such strong defensive teammates and a defensive minded coach because he is one of the smartest players in the NBA and has a great understanding of defense.*

* I think Hibbert is a pretty bright guy too, but just not at Gasol's level.