Charles Barkley Synergy & Plus/Minus Statistics

[Dipper 13]

This is from the same 84 game sample used for the shot chart in this thread. I was initially planning to wait and post this in a comparison thread with some other players, but I will post the others when I complete those games. I have added an extra category called Finish, which is basically all the plays when a guard would drive the lane and create a shot for him to just go up and finish. There are several sub-categories out of Isolation, and the Spot Up category is referring to jump shots only. PPP stands for Points Per Play. As excellent as he was in the low post and on the offensive glass, he was indefensible when cutting to the hoop off the ball. Also as bad a shooter as he was in a catch and shoot or spot up play, he was a tremendous 3 point shooter in isolation when he had a chance to set his feet and line up his set shot. He always took a few shots every game since he felt if he made the first shot or two, then it would open up his inside game.




Overall Chart

http://i.imgur.com/V0TZP3e.png



Isolation Plays Only

http://i.imgur.com/ahox1mg.png





Shot Attempts Blocked (Offense): 35

*This means 2.3% of his shots (1513 FGA) were blocked in this footage



Low Post/Interior Defense: 103/282 FG (36.5%)



I also kept track of his low post defense FG% allowed, which was excellent. In terms of low post defense, he was undersized in height, but he played excellent position defense. He was particularly effective at pulling the chair out from the opponent like Rick Mahorn. He would get the post player leaning hard and then take a step back at the last second, often forcing a travel or poor shot. He was capable of being a very good defensive player, but as a 6'5 interior player there was definitely a ceiling to how good he could have been. He was capable of great defense in spurts, but the problem was you did not know how he was going to play on any given possession. He main weaknesses were P&R defense and overall weakside rotations/help defense. I have seen him make some freakish defensive blocks, even game winning blocks and defensive plays, but I think what stands out to most is that when he actually was out of position, he tended to be way out of position.





Team Performance






Plus/Minus

Plus/Minus Total: +544

Plus/Minus Per 100: +8.24



On/Off

On Court ORtg: 117.2

Off Court ORtg: 98.3

Net ORtg: +18.9



On Court DRtg: 108.9

Off Court DRtg: 126.3

Net DRtg: -17.4



On/Off Net Rating: +36.3

[ThatsWhatIShved]

Fantastic work. As expected, Barkley was a beast in transition and post up. He really didn't miss a cutting basket in your sample size? Impressive stuff

[lorak]

84 game sample is significant, so I'm really impressed by Barkley's impact. Especially surprising are his defensive numbers (individual D and on/off drtg). I guess I have to re-evaluate Barkley, because he seems to be better player than I thought.

[colts18]

are you sure you did your plus/minus stats right? I've never seen a team play 126 D rating defense with a guy off the court. I definitely never saw a player anywhere near +36 over a full season worth of games. To put that into perspective, since 1997 the best net plus/minus is 09 LeBron at +21. +36 would be absurd. No way that is right.

[lorak]

^
Nah, it's possible, because game back then was less sophisticated, less team work, so superstars had more impact.

[Dipper 13]

are you sure you did your plus/minus stats right? I've never seen a team play 126 D rating defense with a guy off the court. I definitely never saw a player anywhere near +36 over a full season worth of games. To put that into perspective, since 1997 the best net plus/minus is 09 LeBron at +21. +36 would be absurd. No way that is right.

To be fair the old NBA games found on the internet tend to be the ones where the star player has a big game. Some of these games were incomplete as well. The way I defined it is a possession ended either with a FGA (and/or FTA), or a TO. For instance, if Barkley is subbed out to the bench after a teammate draws a shooting foul, then those two FT's are recorded in the "On Court" category, since they are a result of a play that happened before he left the game. I can recall a couple of times when Coach Westphal would sub him out and then not even a minute later bring him back in due to the poor play. I knew he was a high impact player but I agree this was very surprising. I was hesitant to post since it is not "adjusted". But then again, neither were the in/out statistics in the latest peaks project thread. I would say Tom Chambers (1993 Suns) and Armen Gilliam (1991-92 Sixers) were clearly worse defensively than Barkley as front court teammates of his. Though Rick Mahorn in the post and especially Oliver Miller were great. Miller and his 7'7 wingspan would be one of the top centers in the NBA today, if he could keep his weight down. His passing and offensive awareness was excellent for a rookie. Let us hope that Barkley defensively is no longer viewed as a poor mans Stoudemire on this forum.

[colts18]

^
Nah, it's possible, because game back then was less sophisticated, less team work, so superstars had more impact.

No defender and especially not Charles Barkley had the kind of impact where their defense was 126 D rating without him. The worst off court plus/minus for a superstar I've seen was KG's 2003 season where his team was -17.5 per 100, 111 D rating without him. I find it hard to believe that Barkley's cast was that much worse than that.

In 2009, the Kings tied for the worst D rating in history. Even with that, the highest off court D rating belonged to Jason Thompson with a 117.6 D rating off court. No chance that Barkley's teams played 10 point per 100 worse than that.

[Dipper 13]

Nah, it's possible, because game back then was less sophisticated, less team work, so superstars had more impact.

The Sixers under Coach Lynam were basically an isolation team that heavily depended on Barkley drawing the double teams. Though they also ran P&R with Dawkins & Gminski (and Gilliam post-trade).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opIs5YpXKrY&t=20m13s

[Dipper 13]

Also Manute Bol had a huge defensive impact. On NBC during one of the 1992 games they said for the entire 1990-91 season, opponents shot roughly 41-42% FG when he was in the game vs. almost 48-49% when he was on the bench. In fact the 1991 team actually had a winning record despite being outscored by their opponents for the season.

[Texas Chuck]

Also Manute Bol had a huge defensive impact. On NBC during one of the 1992 games they said for the entire 1990-91 season, opponents shot roughly 41-42% FG when he was in the game vs. almost 48-49% when he was on the bench. In fact the 1991 team actually had a winning record despite being outscored by their opponents for the season.

Pretty sure he didnt even play 20 mpg. Highly doubt it was Bol who made them a winning team

[Dipper 13]

^My point is to show he was a high impact defensive player as well, even in limited minutes. But he was probably a negative on offense with his wild fling hook shots from 15+ feet out. The 1991 team had numerous problems, first being their starting PG going down early in the season with a torn ACL. They had to rely on 36 year old Ricky Green & Andre Turner to play the point. Those teams never had much depth to begin with, and the 6th man Ron Anderson was a streaky shooter. But the killer was the Gminski for Gilliam trade which didn't make sense to me, seeing as they traded a center who could provide some spacing with his outside shot vs. yet another inside player (Gilliam) to play alongside Mahorn and Barkley. Especially considering Hersey Hawkins was the only quality 3 point shooter on the roster.





Philadelphia Inquirer - January 28, 1991

It will be interesting when Barkley does return to see how his game meshes with that of newcomer Armon Gilliam. Any assessment of the trade that brought Gilliam to Philadelphia and dispatched Mike Gminski will hinge on that blending.

Gilliam is younger and more offensively gifted than Gminski, but he doesn't provide the high-post threat that Gminski did, meaning that packed-in defenses can pack in a little tighter. Gilliam can score down low, but how will Barkley enjoy sharing that particular bit of real estate?

"I don't see any drawbacks," said coach Jim Lynam. "They are two very good scorers, and with Hawkins complementing them, it's an ideal situation."

In his first five games, Gilliam shot 51 percent and averaged 21 points. In his next five games, Gilliam has shot 39 percent and averaged 14 points. So which guy is he?

Losing Johnny Dawkins but gaining an odd couple at the point.

Maybe Dawkins, whose right anterior cruciate ligament disassembled in the fourth game of the season, wasn't heading for the All-Star Game. But he sure was playing as if he were.

At the moment Dawkins went down in Milwaukee, the Sixers stopped being serious championship contenders. That's the way it works. And he is (or was) that good.

To finish out the 78 games left on the schedule with someone at the point guard position, the Sixers elevated venerable Rickey Green from the bench and plucked Andre Turner from the CBA. Together, those two have been remarkable.

This is certainly a season in which the good fortune that had followed the Sixers for two years deserted them, but they have been lucky with both Green and Turner.

"Basically," said owner Harold Katz, "we've been able to survive with a CBA guy and a 36-year-old guy. But both have proven to be quality players."

They are also very different players, with Turner's offensive game at its best when he whipsaws into the lane for penetration and Green's when he spots up on the perimeter for jump shots.

[E-Balla]

What were his per game averages for that sample? And I understand they're 84 of his best games but +36!!!!!

[Dipper 13]

What were his per game averages for that sample?

27.1 PPG, 56.8% FG

[E-Balla]

What were his per game averages for that sample?

27.1 PPG, 56.8% FG

Really?... I reject these numbers. That's just too unbelievably good (jk).

Now I want to see Hakeem, MJ, Malone, and anyone else from that era ranked as high as Chuck (Ewing and The Admiral too).

[acrossthecourt]

are you sure you did your plus/minus stats right? I've never seen a team play 126 D rating defense with a guy off the court. I definitely never saw a player anywhere near +36 over a full season worth of games. To put that into perspective, since 1997 the best net plus/minus is 09 LeBron at +21. +36 would be absurd. No way that is right.

To be fair the old NBA games found on the internet tend to be the ones where the star player has a big game. Some of these games were incomplete as well. The way I defined it is a possession ended either with a FGA (and/or FTA), or a TO. For instance, if Barkley is subbed out to the bench after a teammate draws a shooting foul, then those two FT's are recorded in the "On Court" category, since they are a result of a play that happened before he left the game. I can recall a couple of times when Coach Westphal would sub him out and then not even a minute later bring him back in due to the poor play. I knew he was a high impact player but I agree this was very surprising. I was hesitant to post since it is not "adjusted". But then again, neither were the in/out statistics in the latest peaks project thread. I would say Tom Chambers (1993 Suns) and Armen Gilliam (1991-92 Sixers) were clearly worse defensively than Barkley as front court teammates of his. Though Rick Mahorn in the post and especially Oliver Miller were great. Miller and his 7'7 wingspan would be one of the top centers in the NBA today, if he could keep his weight down. His passing and offensive awareness was excellent for a rookie. Let us hope that Barkley defensively is no longer viewed as a poor mans Stoudemire on this forum.

That's not how possessions are defined. Possessions end when the other team gets the ball, basically (or when a quarter/OT ends.)

What did you calculate for the pace of his team that year?

[Dipper 13]

That's not how possessions are defined. Possessions end when the other team gets the ball, basically (or when a quarter/OT ends.)

What did you calculate for the pace of his team that year?

How else does a possession end without a shot attempt or a turnover? I did not count the "possessions" where a team may have the ball at the end of a game with the shot clock turned off and was just looking to run the clock out. This is an 84 game sample, but some of these games are incomplete. I would say the footage is roughly equal to 80-82 full games. So the pace (or possessions per game) would be in the 93 to 95 ballpark, since I did not keep track of minutes.

[Dipper 13]

Now I want to see Hakeem, MJ, Malone, and anyone else from that era ranked as high as Chuck (Ewing and The Admiral too).

Among a few other players, I am in the process of charting the Michael Jordan games. Any game footage I can find from 1990-1992 (his top 3 seasons in some order).

[acrossthecourt]

That's not how possessions are defined. Possessions end when the other team gets the ball, basically (or when a quarter/OT ends.)

What did you calculate for the pace of his team that year?

How else does a possession end without a shot attempt or a turnover? I did not count the "possessions" where a team may have the ball at the end of a game with the shot clock turned off and was just looking to run the clock out. This is an 84 game sample, but some of these games are incomplete. I would say the footage is roughly equal to 80-82 full games. So the pace (or possessions per game) would be in the 93 to 95 ballpark, since I did not keep track of minutes.

If you say a possession ends with a FGA, then when a team grabs an offensive rebound you're saying that's a new possession. That is not how possessions are normally defined, which would distort your per possession stats.

[Dipper 13]

No I agree with you. I should have specified, obviously an offensive rebound does not add a new possession, but instead keeps the possession alive. I certainly did not inflate the pace due to offensive rebounds. If that were the case there would probably be over 9,000 possessions total on this chart.

Barkley was so good at following his own missed shot and grabbing the rebound for the putback. In this video example below we can see a missed post up shot followed by a made offensive rebound shot, with an "And-1", giving him a chance for a 3 point play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGyqXFcDTsU&t=15m25s

[G35]

84 game sample is significant, so I'm really impressed by Barkley's impact. Especially surprising are his defensive numbers (individual D and on/off drtg). I guess I have to re-evaluate Barkley, because he seems to be better player than I thought.

You have been influenced by some of the more vociferous posters who have made it seem like Barkley was Amare like on defense when he wasn't. He was just undersized and at times he didn't always put in the effort but he was not a sieve on defense as many would like you to believe, that combined with his incredible offense puts him as the 2nd best PF imo......