PC Board All-Time Fantasy League Project - Discussion Thread

[MisterHibachi]

I have been thinking about a fantasy draft-type of project on the PC board, similar to the one TNT did, where Barkley picked Allen Iverson with the first over-all pick lol.

Fantasy-draft as in all the players who ever played for the league would be up for grabs. The point of the draft would be to create a team, a well-balanced team not a team of superstars cuz that's no fun. Same rules as a fantasy draft, for those who've played. Snake draft order, drafting 13 or so players (up for debate). I guess each person would get about a day or two (or some other set time) to make a draft choice.

I was hoping to get a bunch of people in this, not like 8 or 9 people cuz that would just lead to super teams. If we have maybe 30 players (up for debate), I think the teams would be both deep and talented. After the draft, we can go in playoff style head to head, with the one who drafted first facing the one who drafted last, or something like that (this is also up for debate). The teams would go head to head and posters on the PC board, even those not participating in the draft, can vote for the better team via poll options.

In the end, one team will emerge as the winner and pride will be the reward lol.

I don't know if this has been done before. Questions? Comments? Anyone interested? Any changes to the idea?

Edit: so far these guys have expressed interest in participating:

MisterHibachi
Notanoob
Quotatious
whitehops
DHodgkins
Bruh Man
Narigo
ThunderDan9
Sagittaron
RSCD3_
CaliBullsFan
john248
Mars_Blackmon
ardee
O_6
batmana

[Notanoob]

I believe something along these lines has been done. I've never played fantasy, so I don't know what kind of commitment this would take to run, but I'd love to give it a try.

[Quotatious]

Oh damn, man I wanted to do such thing earlier this week...I just didn't know if I would have the time to take care of it. If you want some help with that, I'm willing to help you with that.

I'm obviously interested in participating as a GM in that draft as well.

However, I'd suggest limiting the draft to the players from 1979-80 season onward, because there'd be too many controversial things with guys like Wilt, Russell, Oscar or West and it could possibly even derail a whole thing. Introduction of the 3 point line was pretty much the beginning of the modern era of basketball.

[Hawk]

How would we rank the teams? By looking at the stats just like in ESPN's Fantasy League or by discussing who has the better team on paper?

[Quotatious]

How would we rank the teams? By looking at the stats just like in ESPN's Fantasy League or by discussing who has the better team on paper?

I imagine gameplans would have to be included and there'd be an open discussion for anyone who wants to throw in their two cents. I think the best way would be to let everyone decide who's better based on their own criteria, just like we do it all the time in different threads. I'll let MisterHibachi explain that though, he runs that whole thing after all.

[MisterHibachi]

I figured we would rank them by going head to head in some format and letting people discuss the teams in separate threads and vote on the better team for a set amount of time. If people are interested, but too busy for it right now, we can even post-pone it till summer or something. It would be time-consuming. And limiting it to 79-80 on is acceptable too. I don't wanna dominate the whole thing, I would rather have input on the rules and set up lol

[MisterHibachi]

The point of the exercise would be to build a real team. For example, if you somehow manage to draft Kobe and Jordan on the same team, voters are probably gonna have concerns about chemistry and you will lose a few votes no doubt in the playoffs. We should also debate whether off court chemistry should be factored in or not. Duncan-KG off court don't like each other, I've heard, but I can imagine them being quite dominant together on the court.

Another thing up for debate is the exact system of ranking the teams. Whether we are voting in a situation where every player on the team is at peak form, or voting for teams over a 10 year period. Rose, for example, would get drafted higher in the first situation than in the second.

[Doctor MJ]

So if I'm understanding correctly, this is what we've done in the past as an All-Time League. I ran the first one on the board back in 2006, and we did another one soon after, but then games like this moved over to the Trade board.

I could see doing one here just because it's a different community than the Trade board, but make sure you explore what's going on over there because you might find that to be more what you want.

[whitehops]

i'm definitely interested in participating but have a question.

when we draft a player are we selecting the year as well? eg first overall I select 89 Jordan, then nobody else can draft Jordan after that.


also I agree with making it modern day players (intro to the 3 point line is a good cut-off)

[MisterHibachi]

So if I'm understanding correctly, this is what we've done in the past as an All-Time League. I ran the first one on the board back in 2006, and we did another one soon after, but then games like this moved over to the Trade board.

I could see doing one here just because it's a different community than the Trade board, but make sure you explore what's going on over there because you might find that to be more what you want.

From what I understand the games over there are where you take current rosters and then trade with each other. I'm looking to do something different than that.

Edit: do you happen to have a link to that all-time league? I would like to see how it turned out and all the rules you implemented.

[MisterHibachi]

i'm definitely interested in participating but have a question.

when we draft a player are we selecting the year as well? eg first overall I select 89 Jordan, then nobody else can draft Jordan after that.


also I agree with making it modern day players (intro to the 3 point line is a good cut-off)

You would just be selecting Jordan. The year is up for debate which hasn't been settled yet. We can either do it the way you're saying, with specific years assigned to all players drafted, or we can do a 10 year period. It'll affect the draft if we choose one or the other, but I'm okay with either. So if people have a preference, we can either do all peak years (or certain years as chosen) or a certain amount of seasons.

But in either situations, whether you draft 89 Jordan or Jordan with no years, no one else would be allowed to draft Jordan in any year. It won't be like 89 Jordan on one team and 91 Jordan on another.

[Doctor MJ]

So if I'm understanding correctly, this is what we've done in the past as an All-Time League. I ran the first one on the board back in 2006, and we did another one soon after, but then games like this moved over to the Trade board.

I could see doing one here just because it's a different community than the Trade board, but make sure you explore what's going on over there because you might find that to be more what you want.

From what I understand the games over there are where you take current rosters and then trade with each other. I'm looking to do something different than that.

Edit: do you happen to have a link to that all-time league? I would like to see how it turned out and all the rules you implemented.

Pretty sure they've done a wide variety of games on their Games sub-board, but regardless:

Can't link to the original ATLs because stuff that old is gone (or at least not publicly accessible).

First league: 30 teams. Wilt picked first, Jordan second. tkb won with a team that had Shaq & Kobe.
Second league: 16 teams. Jordan picked first, Wilt second. penbeast0 won with a team that had Shaq & Frazier.

By "won", I mean that after completing the draft, we had a tournament where the players had to explain their general strategy and to talk specifics against each opponent they faced. Team GMs voted, and if you got more votes than your opponent, you moved on.

The first ATL had really amazing tournament arguments, the second one not so much.
The second ATL (ran by tkb), had some clear improvements for sanity: 16 teams was better than 32. If you miss your draft pick, we go on without you until you come back. Explicitly forcing GMs to declare minute and shot allocation, and these numbers had to be reasonable based on the players career. Couldn't have Bill Walton playing 36 MPG.

It was remarked upon at the time how well Shaq's teams did. Many of us may take major issues with how Shaq went about his career, but the respect given to an engaged Shaq when forced to choose the superior team was literally second-to-none.

Oh, also I'll say, because I still remember my teams:

1st ATL: I got 2nd pick, and hence 59th pick. I picked Jordan and Robert Parish. I also was able to swing a deal to acquire Charles Barkley, which I was pretty proud of. I ended up to a team led by Ewing & Isiah, which I still think was ridiculous.

2nd ATL: I got the 16th (last) first round pick, and thus the 17th and 32nd picks. I picked Garnett & Pippen with the first two, and then sung a trade where I gave up Garnett for an additional 2nd round pick and other nice picks, and made another trade along those lines along the way. So it was a team with Pippen, Artis Gilmore, Rick Barry, Steve Nash, Buck Williams, and Walton among others. I was pretty proud of it, but couldn't sell anyone on it. Out in the first round.

Incidentally I still like that team a lot, but my estimation of Garnett has grown since then. I doubt I'd consider trading him today.

[MisterHibachi]

Spoiler:

So if I'm understanding correctly, this is what we've done in the past as an All-Time League. I ran the first one on the board back in 2006, and we did another one soon after, but then games like this moved over to the Trade board.

I could see doing one here just because it's a different community than the Trade board, but make sure you explore what's going on over there because you might find that to be more what you want.

From what I understand the games over there are where you take current rosters and then trade with each other. I'm looking to do something different than that.

Edit: do you happen to have a link to that all-time league? I would like to see how it turned out and all the rules you implemented.

Pretty sure they've done a wide variety of games on their Games sub-board, but regardless:

Can't link to the original ATLs because stuff that old is gone (or at least not publicly accessible).

First league: 30 teams. Wilt picked first, Jordan second. tkb won with a team that had Shaq & Kobe.
Second league: 16 teams. Jordan picked first, Wilt second. penbeast0 won with a team that had Shaq & Frazier.

By "won", I mean that after completing the draft, we had a tournament where the players had to explain their general strategy and to talk specifics against each opponent they faced. Team GMs voted, and if you got more votes than your opponent, you moved on.

The first ATL had really amazing tournament arguments, the second one not so much.
The second ATL (ran by tkb), had some clear improvements for sanity: 16 teams was better than 32. If you miss your draft pick, we go on without you until you come back. Explicitly forcing GMs to declare minute and shot allocation, and these numbers had to be reasonable based on the players career. Couldn't have Bill Walton playing 36 MPG.

It was remarked upon at the time how well Shaq's teams did. Many of us may take major issues with how Shaq went about his career, but the respect given to an engaged Shaq when forced to choose the superior team was literally second-to-none.

Oh, also I'll say, because I still remember my teams:

1st ATL: I got 2nd pick, and hence 59th pick. I picked Jordan and Robert Parish. I also was able to swing a deal to acquire Charles Barkley, which I was pretty proud of. I ended up to a team led by Ewing & Isiah, which I still think was ridiculous.

2nd ATL: I got the 16th (last) first round pick, and thus the 17th and 32nd picks. I picked Garnett & Pippen with the first two, and then sung a trade where I gave up Garnett for an additional 2nd round pick and other nice picks, and made another trade along those lines along the way. So it was a team with Pippen, Artis Gilmore, Rick Barry, Steve Nash, Buck Williams, and Walton among others. I was pretty proud of it, but couldn't sell anyone on it. Out in the first round.

Incidentally I still like that team a lot, but my estimation of Garnett has grown since then. I doubt I'd consider trading him today.

That's pretty much what I was thinking of when I started this thread. If the Trades board does this kind of thing, I'll try and be more involved on that board and get in on that next time. Tbh, I'm not too familiar with that board, haven't posted there much. I posted the idea here because we always have threads about this team versus that team, just wanted to do it on a grander scale.

The way you guys ran it seemed fun, but I don't know how easy the trades would be. That would add a lot of complications to the process. From what I understand, 30/32 teams was too much and 16 was better? I wanted to avoid teams with Shaq and Kobe, because that's arguably two top 10 players (I think that happened in your league probably due to trades) and would be unfair, unless you can match that with MJ and Hakeem or similar and that's not a very realistic team. I like the aspects of determining minutes for each player and strategies. I was initially thinking of opening the votes in head to head match ups to the entire board, similar to all these threads of Team A vs Team B. Are there any advantages/disadvantages to restricting it to just GMs?

[ronnymac2]

^^^Those are some sick teams, Doc.

I remember these All-Time Leagues were part of what got me into RealGM and the PC board. I remember reading the gameplans of Coach tsherkin, Coach Penbeast, and Coach Doctor MJ and being like "Damn, these teams would be awesome and they fit together, too!"

I forget when, must have been 2010 or so because I had 2009 Brandon Roy on my team, but my first All-Time League team was as follows:

Hakeem Olajuwon
Dave Cowens
Rick Barry
Paul Pierce
Chauncey Billups

Bench: Brandon Roy, Derek Harper, Willie Wise (TrueLaFan taught me about him), Yao Ming, Mo Lucas, Gerald Wallace, Luke Jackson

That was a sick team. Made it to the championship round against ShawnGoat's team led by Larry Bird and Wes Unseld. We played where 5 judges would judge the matchup. I was losing 2-1 when voting stopped for some reason, so it's still technically unresolved I think.

Next team, I could only pick from the 90s. I had Patrick Ewing, Tim Duncan, Chris Mullin, Clyde Drexler, and Magic Johnson. I lost to TMACFORMVP's 80s team with Larry Bird, Akeem Olajuwon, Karl Malone and Sidney Moncrief I think. I even knew going into that matchup I should lose though.

Those things can be super fun, and you learn a lot, too. I'm not interested in participating in any future ones, but I'll definitely read what's going on.

[bastillon]

I would like to participate as a judge.

[DHodgkins]

I'd be down for this

[MisterHibachi]

Okay, let's aim for 16-20 teams.

[Quotatious]

The point of the exercise would be to build a real team. For example, if you somehow manage to draft Kobe and Jordan on the same team, voters are probably gonna have concerns about chemistry and you will lose a few votes no doubt in the playoffs. We should also debate whether off court chemistry should be factored in or not. Duncan-KG off court don't like each other, I've heard, but I can imagine them being quite dominant together on the court.

Well, I think it'd just be a high-risk, high-reward situation. Some posters may argue that MJ/Kobe duo is just too talented and they'd dominate the game based on that alone, so you would still get some votes for your team.
Strangely, I don't have concerns about Duncan/Garnett duo. Everyone hates Garnett when they play against him, but he's a GREAT teammate and a true professional. Al Horford once said that you cannot take KG's remarks to your heart. You have to understand that he just isn't really that mean-spirited, that's just a part of his competitive nature and a desire to get an advantage over his opponents. 'Happy Mother's Day, MFer' isn't easily forgivable, I'm sure, but they're both grown men after all and both want to win, both are extremely unselfish team players who care about getting their teammates going, so I think they would be fine.

Another thing up for debate is the exact system of ranking the teams. Whether we are voting in a situation where every player on the team is at peak form, or voting for teams over a 10 year period. Rose, for example, would get drafted higher in the first situation than in the second.

Oh, I don't see a point in taking 10 years for each player, I really don't. I think one peak year (or whatever season you want) is the best idea because those are supposed to be one playoffs, no need to complicate that. Predicting a totally fictional team's play for 10 seasons is nearly impossible. We'd have to include injuries in that scenario and I don't know if factoring in the actual injuries those guys had in real life is that accurate...

[MisterHibachi]

Another thing up for debate is the exact system of ranking the teams. Whether we are voting in a situation where every player on the team is at peak form, or voting for teams over a 10 year period. Rose, for example, would get drafted higher in the first situation than in the second.

Oh, I don't see a point in taking 10 years for each player, I really don't. I think one peak year (or whatever season you want) is the best idea because those are supposed to be one playoffs, no need to complicate that. Predicting a totally fictional team's play for 10 seasons is nearly impossible. We'd have to include injuries in that scenario and I don't know if factoring in the actual injuries those guys had in real life is that accurate...

Yeah, you're right. So peak years for everyone or any year, up to the GM?

[Quotatious]

So peak years for everyone or any year, up to the GM?

No sense to debate consensus peak years for every player. It'd take way too much time. Let everyone take whoever they want in whichever year they want. It's up to you who you choose and what kind of results you can expect.

Obviously there's no way you can pick, for example, 91 Jordan and the other GM takes 88 Jordan. It'd be just stupid to have two versions of the same guy on two different teams.