Most and least portable star players of all-time?

[Fadeaway_Jumper]

Kobe bryant is one the most portable players of all time. He won 5 different titles, winning the championship multiples time with two different squads. Each team had a different philosophy as well.

Not many players can say they have won multiple titles with a completely different cast around them

[MisterHibachi]

They all ran the triangle offense, what different philosophy?

[Fadeaway_Jumper]

They all ran the triangle offense, what different philosophy?

Yeah they ran the traingle. But at first it was an inside-out focus with shaq, then turned to inside-in later on

[Zasterror]

Most portable: Russell, Robinson, Dirk, Bird

Least portable: Wade, Dantley, Paul

Wade has already proven multiples times that he is one of the more portables players in our generation

No he's really not. He's ball dominant to the nth degree, poor range, and not a good off-ball player.

He didn't adapt to LeBron until he became pretty much half the player he was, and LeBron had to basically transform his game as well to make it work.

Wade in his prime ('06-'11) would never really fit well on a team where he doesn't have the ball most of the time because without it he's severely limited.

...have you not been watching the Miami Heat for the past 3-4 years?
Wade is a terrific off ball player and its been marveled by analyst and critics alike. This fact is expounded upon when the Big 3 was formed and let LeBron take the permanent, primary ball-handler reins. What truly made the LeBron/Wade dynamic was Wade's ability to be a great off-ball player. Just because he isn't a good 3-point shooter doesn't make him limited. That's like saying Wade is a limited player, despite the fact that he's been one of the best all-around players of all time. Wade's off-ball cuts, post game, and mid-range game has and always been AT THE VERY LEAST reliable.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atpZXLfbbss[/youtube]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1762069-is-dwyane-wade-still-an-elite-player-in-todays-nba

One of the main reasons Wade has remained such an impressive offensive contributor is the retention of his immense off-ball skills. The shooting guard has always been known as a premier slasher, but he's used his veteran savvy to become one of the NBA's most dangerous cutters, even at 31 years old.

Defenders just can't afford to look the wrong way when drawing Wade as an assignment, or else he's going to make them pay with an easy shot at the rim.

Synergy Sports (subscription required) shows the former Marquette standout averaged 1.33 points per possession when cutting to the rim, good for 33rd in the NBA. That's an impressive mark for a player who used off-ball cuts on 11 percent of his possessions.

No matter who the defender is, Wade will capitalize if even the smallest mistake is made....

...Individual cuts aren't Wade's only off-ball method du jour. According to Synergy, he was also an elite player using screens to free himself from defenders, scoring 0.83 points per possession in those situations

Wade had to transform his game the most out of the Big 3.

[aal04]

Russel and it aint even close.

2 way game. team player. Leader. Consistent. Willing to do whatever it takes.

[Narf]

Which stars/superstars would fit well on the most, and least, amount of different roles and team settings?

Additionally, please vote in the poll.

Most different roles and team settings? Magic 1st, KG 2nd, LBJ 3rd.

They could legitimately play all 5 positions (KG actually did play PG in the playoffs when Cassell and Hudson both went down, and Magic played C for the Lakers I believe his rookie year in the playoffs).

Least? Shaq. Dominant post C and nothing else. Russell too. Defensive C that was always surrounded by scorers, as he should be.

[Quotatious]

They could legitimately play all 5 positions (KG actually did play PG in the playoffs when Cassell and Hudson both went down, and Magic played C for the Lakers I believe his rookie year in the playoffs).

Neither is actually close to the truth. It just seems so nice to say that there were players who could actually play all five positions, but there hasn't been any player in NBA history who could do it. Magic and KG might be the closest, but still pretty far from it.

KG was a point forward, not a point guard. When Cassell went down in the 2004 WCF against LAL, it was actually Darrick Martin who was their starting point guard, not KG. Garnett still played inside for vast majority of those games, plus some SF. Martin and Fred Hoiberg/Trenton Hassell got the PG minutes. Like I've said, KG played point forward quite a bit, intiated their offense on some possessions, but that's it.

Magic just jumped at tip-off in the game 6 of the 1980 finals, but when you watch that game, you'll see that he played guard most of the time, alongside Nixon and Cooper, plus also some SF.

These are just myths that KG or Magic played all five positions.

[Narf]

They could legitimately play all 5 positions (KG actually did play PG in the playoffs when Cassell and Hudson both went down, and Magic played C for the Lakers I believe his rookie year in the playoffs).

Neither is actually close to the truth. It just seems so nice to say that there were players who could actually play all five positions, but there hasn't been any player in NBA history who could do it. Magic and KG might be the closest, but still pretty far from it.

KG was a point forward, not a point guard. When Cassell went down in the 2004 WCF against LAL, it was actually Darrick Martin who was their starting point guard, not KG. Garnett still played inside for vast majority of those games, plus some SF. Martin and Fred Hoiberg/Trenton Hassell got the PG minutes. Like I've said, KG played point forward quite a bit, intiated their offense on some possessions, but that's it.

Magic just jumped at tip-off in the game 6 of the 1980 finals, but when you watch that game, you'll see that he played guard most of the time, alongside Nixon and Cooper, plus also some SF.

These are just myths that KG or Magic played all five positions.

KG actually did play PG.
Hoiberg guarded the other team's PG, but KG brought the ball up and initiated the offense for a good stretch there. He was the PG on offense.

I get your point, and I think you get mine. Clearly you don't want Magic playing C or KG playing PG, just that they were the most capable/portable.

[Texas Chuck]

versatile /= portable. Otherwise Lamar Odom is the answer which is of course silly.

I think KG is fairly portable tho I question him going to any team where he has to be the go-to scorer. I also question Magic going to a slow-paced defensive styled team. Now obviously both guys are all-time greats, but I think they are less portable than several other top guys.

[lorak]

I also question Magic going to a slow-paced defensive styled team.

Magic was excellent when he played on such team - Lakers 1991 (27th in pace, 5th in DRTG). Overall he was one of the best players ever in HCO, so he wouldn't have any problems with playing in slow paced environment. The only reason why he's less portable than players at the top is because it's more difficult to built around him.

[The Infamous1]

They could legitimately play all 5 positions (KG actually did play PG in the playoffs when Cassell and Hudson both went down, and Magic played C for the Lakers I believe his rookie year in the playoffs).

Neither is actually close to the truth. It just seems so nice to say that there were players who could actually play all five positions, but there hasn't been any player in NBA history who could do it. Magic and KG might be the closest, but still pretty far from it.

KG was a point forward, not a point guard. When Cassell went down in the 2004 WCF against LAL, it was actually Darrick Martin who was their starting point guard, not KG. Garnett still played inside for vast majority of those games, plus some SF. Martin and Fred Hoiberg/Trenton Hassell got the PG minutes. Like I've said, KG played point forward quite a bit, intiated their offense on some possessions, but that's it.

Magic just jumped at tip-off in the game 6 of the 1980 finals, but when you watch that game, you'll see that he played guard most of the time, alongside Nixon and Cooper, plus also some SF.

These are just myths that KG or Magic played all five positions.

Too often people confuse great passing big man with "point forward". Guys like KG bird webber are great passing big men, they weren't point forwards.

[Owly]

Wade had to transform his game the most out of the Big 3.

Not Bosh then?

Look at the difference between his '10 usage and shooting numbers and his numbers this year (average shot disatance, percentage of shots at the rim, % of shots from 3, % of 2 point field goals assisted - from less than half to 77%, nearly 4/5ths - etc).

It's also evident that Bosh accepted the need to transform sooner, '11 Wade (and LeBron) changed very little compared to the shift Bosh underwent. You could perhaps argue that Wade (or someone other than Bosh) had a more difficult transition to make, as Bosh on offense arguably mainly just had to use aspects of his game less and he already had many of the skills (e.g. jumpshooting) for his Heat role. But Bosh clearly changed what he did most.


I also really can't see the case for Russell as the absolute most portable. I mean yes defense is more portable than O (or particularly scoring) because only one player shoots per offensive possession, but everyone defends a defensive possession. Still throughout most of the 60s Russell was routinely, amongst those centers playing 30+ minutes, the lowest scorer per36 minutes and posted the worst ts%. As such I would think there would be teams where his value is significantly below what it can be, and that there are more “balanced” greats that would add value more consistently (this is without raising the controversial issue of era portability and that the “perfect teammate” stuff might be getting overdone; e.g. his refusal to sign autographs extended to teammates which pissed some off, might do more so in recent times with higher roster turnover with teammates not given the chance to get to know, understand him).

[Quotatious]

Too often people confuse great passing big man with "point forward". Guys like KG bird webber are great passing big men, they weren't point forwards.

I agree, but all of them played as point forwards for short streches. Not all the time, like Pippen or LeBron, but they definitely did. I'm also not sure whether I'd include Bird with KG and Webber - he was clearly a more perimeter oriented player, and actually the secondary ballhandler for the Celtics (him and Ainge played a lot off the ball, but I'd say it was Larry who had more significant role as an initiator on offense.

Also unlike KG and C-Webb, Bird was a ballhandler in pick & rolls/pick & pops quite a bit (mainly with Parish), and generally came off screens a lot, while Garnett and Webber usually just screens setters on picks.

[ceiling raiser]

I also question Magic going to a slow-paced defensive styled team.

Magic was excellent when he played on such team - Lakers 1991 (27th in pace, 5th in DRTG). Overall he was one of the best players ever in HCO, so he wouldn't have any problems with playing in slow paced environment. The only reason why he's less portable than players at the top is because it's more difficult to built around him.

Because of ball-dominance or defensive concerns (I'm guessing both)?

[asindc]

I can't pick a least portable among those choices listed, but the most portable is KAJ. The sky hook plays elite in any era against any defensive scheme.

[ccameron]

Wade has already proven multiples times that he is one of the more portables players in our generation

No he's really not. He's ball dominant to the nth degree, poor range, and not a good off-ball player.

He didn't adapt to LeBron until he became pretty much half the player he was, and LeBron had to basically transform his game as well to make it work.

Wade in his prime ('06-'11) would never really fit well on a team where he doesn't have the ball most of the time because without it he's severely limited.

...have you not been watching the Miami Heat for the past 3-4 years?
Wade is a terrific off ball player and its been marveled by analyst and critics alike. This fact is expounded upon when the Big 3 was formed and let LeBron take the permanent, primary ball-handler reins. What truly made the LeBron/Wade dynamic was Wade's ability to be a great off-ball player. Just because he isn't a good 3-point shooter doesn't make him limited. That's like saying Wade is a limited player, despite the fact that he's been one of the best all-around players of all time. Wade's off-ball cuts, post game, and mid-range game has and always been AT THE VERY LEAST reliable.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atpZXLfbbss[/youtube]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1762069-is-dwyane-wade-still-an-elite-player-in-todays-nba

One of the main reasons Wade has remained such an impressive offensive contributor is the retention of his immense off-ball skills. The shooting guard has always been known as a premier slasher, but he's used his veteran savvy to become one of the NBA's most dangerous cutters, even at 31 years old.

Defenders just can't afford to look the wrong way when drawing Wade as an assignment, or else he's going to make them pay with an easy shot at the rim.

Synergy Sports (subscription required) shows the former Marquette standout averaged 1.33 points per possession when cutting to the rim, good for 33rd in the NBA. That's an impressive mark for a player who used off-ball cuts on 11 percent of his possessions.

No matter who the defender is, Wade will capitalize if even the smallest mistake is made....

...Individual cuts aren't Wade's only off-ball method du jour. According to Synergy, he was also an elite player using screens to free himself from defenders, scoring 0.83 points per possession in those situations

Wade had to transform his game the most out of the Big 3.

Wade isn't a consensus top 10 player, so not sure why we are discussing him. But agree, ardee is way off the mark. Wade has been ball-dominant in the past, but he's become one of the best off-ball players in the league. Off-ball =/= catch and shoot player. He's much more disruptive than that.

On to the topic, I think Lebron, Duncan, and Kareem all have a case, but I think it's Lebron. Plug him into any team and it is automatically a playoff team IMO. Greatest range in terms of position playing. If there is any kind of player that he would fit the least with, it would be a ball dominant wing -- and he's proved the past few years that he can make even that work. He, like Wade, has become a very good off-ball player.

[lorak]

I also question Magic going to a slow-paced defensive styled team.

Magic was excellent when he played on such team - Lakers 1991 (27th in pace, 5th in DRTG). Overall he was one of the best players ever in HCO, so he wouldn't have any problems with playing in slow paced environment. The only reason why he's less portable than players at the top is because it's more difficult to built around him.

Because of ball-dominance or defensive concerns (I'm guessing both)?

Defensive concerns, because team around Magic needs SG capable of defending PGs - what would be especially big concern in current era.

Ball dominance isn't issue at all IMO, because ball in Magic hands = blessing for his team

[DanDanE420]

Wade isn't portable?

He was drafted as a PG on a 25-win team. They finished in the second round of the playoffs.

Then he played with Shaq and some role players. Wade emerged as a superstar and did everything Kobe didn't.

Then he played with "unique" teammates like Jason Williams and Antoine Walker. He won a title.

Then he tanked.

Then he played sixth man for the USA Olympic team. He was the best player in the tournament.

Then he paired with Beasley and Chalmers. He put up a 30-PER and established himself as the best player in the league besides LeBron.

Then he orchestrated the Big 3. He adapted his game and won two titles.

Wade is the most portable superstar ever.

[Sign5]

Ardee has a constant agenda against Wade nothing to get worked up over.

Any star that can play and defend multiple positions, has a high b-ball IQ, and is great off the ball is portable.

Wade is ball dominant and incapable of playing with other stars that he was the best player on the Olympic team off the bench, while handling the ball the least out of the starting wings. Makes perfect sense.


That said. Guys like LeBron, KG, Magic and Duncan would be on the top of my list in terms of most portable.

[penbeast0]

As someone who modeled their game after Kareem (back in HS anyway), the high post hook is unstoppable by your primary defender but it has problems against a zone type defense where the guard collapse down on you from behind. Kareem played in an era where zones were technically illegal and had good court vision and good shooting teammates (even on the Bucks) but yeah, there's a counter to the skyhook.