Rank in terms of talent: Yao vs Oden vs Cousins

[EasternHeretic]

Rank these three by talent and potential.

[CaliBullsFan]

Yao & Oden>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cousins

[Texas Chuck]

Yao was the most talented of the group.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Yao & Oden>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cousins

I would say that's just dumb, but that's rude, so I'm going to say that's just foolish. In the extreme. I haven't seen 10 centers more talented than DeMarcus Cousins.


Now how to answqer this question though is tough.

1) what really was Oden's talent in the end? We never got to find out. The hype would have had him first on this list. From what I saw very early in his career he looked more like he would be working as a bigger, slower Dwight. Maybe somewhere between Dwight and Drummond. Which would actually land him last on this list. But we never found out which it was.

2) how to factor in height as "talent". Demarcus Cousins is more talented than Yao. He's a scary talent. But, Yao was 7'5". Which means he could simply do things that more normal sized guys could not. If he was 6'11" like Cousins? I have absolutely no qualms that Cousins was the better talent. But at 7'5"...


The good thing about this thread is not the rankings, its just associating three names that I think because of their struggles really changed the whole way we think about the center position. These are the All NBA guys we've been missing. If Oden never got hurt, if Yao stayed healthy through the end of his career. If Cousins came into the NBA emotionally ready. If all that had happened this still wouldn't be the 90s centerwise, but all of a sudden there would have been a true All NBA/star level pack of centers at the top of the league every year. No more roleplayers or All Jeffersons on the list. And probably a lot fewer claims that we aren't playing basketball anymore and that big guys don't matter. But we lost the entire generation of shoulda been great bigs, and only now that Cousins is coming online, with maybe Drummond and Embiid coming on as well, is the position maybe recovering a bit.

[SHAQ32]

I think Oden had more potential than Dwight and Yao. More size and IQ on both ends than Dwight, and more athletic with better hands than Yao.

Cousins is more skilled offensively, but his overall potential output on both ends doesn't measure up to a Yao, Dwight or Oden.

[EH15]

Yao had the most talent of the three. Some will say you can't equate size with talent, but the things he was able to do... that's talent. A 7'6" 300lb man is not suppose to be able to do the things he did on a basketball court. First class post game with either hand, a competent mid range jump shooter with range out to the three point line at times, a fantastic free throw shooter, good ball handler (lowest TOV% of the three) even though he had butterfingers at times.

I would say Oden had the most potential, especially coming out of college.

[Dr Positivity]

Tough because they are 3 extraordinary talents but

Cousins
Oden
Yao

I feel like Yao is still the least physically gifted despite his massive size. He is a little longer than Oden and Cousins in wingspan/reach, the difference is not nearly as pronounced as their heights. Easily the heaviest, but also by far the slowest, so I'll call him the least physically gifted on account of how important that explosiveness is. However he is the most gifted skill/IQ wise of the 3.

Oden is the opposite, he has the best physical tools but the least finesse skill. Cousins has the most complete combination IMO and you could make a case he's the most talented player since Lebron's draft

[richboy]

Yao was much more talented.

Oden was second. I would have taken Yao over Oden in the draft though. Despite Oden being maybe the strongest guy lb for lb I've ever seen on a basketball court.

Nothing against Cousins but if your a 20 10 center and your team sucks your not that good. My problem is Cousins has no impact on the defensive end. That is the most important thing you need to get from your bigs. Offensive only bigs constantly under achieve. You have to keep making excuses for them. When in reality a big man's job starts with defense. If your not an elite defender at that position your impact is marginalized.

When Yao came into the league he look like he would change the position. He was a great passer. He could shoot with range in China. He was doing Hakeem like post moves. Then Patrick Ewing and JVG got a hold of him. JVG told him to stop passing. He was 7'6 so no reason to worry about a double teams. Patrick Ewing had him doing his arsenal of 2 post moves. Which should tell you something about why Dwight post game has advanced more in a few months with Hakeem than years with Patrick. Suddenly the Yao that we thought we was going to get turned into a better version of Rik Smits. Which still was really good. If not for injury I'll say he could have been a top 25 player all time when it was all said and done. He still one of my favorite players and people. I just wish he had more health and better coaching. I really like JVG as a coach. I hate some of his offensive concepts though.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Yao was much more talented.

Oden was second. I would have taken Yao over Oden in the draft though. Despite Oden being maybe the strongest guy lb for lb I've ever seen on a basketball court.

Nothing against Cousins but if your a 20 10 center and your team sucks your not that good. My problem is Cousins has no impact on the defensive end. That is the most important thing you need to get from your bigs. Offensive only bigs constantly under achieve. You have to keep making excuses for them. When in reality a big man's job starts with defense. If your not an elite defender at that position your impact is marginalized.

When Yao came into the league he look like he would change the position. He was a great passer. He could shoot with range in China. He was doing Hakeem like post moves. Then Patrick Ewing and JVG got a hold of him. JVG told him to stop passing. He was 7'6 so no reason to worry about a double teams. Patrick Ewing had him doing his arsenal of 2 post moves. Which should tell you something about why Dwight post game has advanced more in a few months with Hakeem than years with Patrick. Suddenly the Yao that we thought we was going to get turned into a better version of Rik Smits. Which still was really good. If not for injury I'll say he could have been a top 25 player all time when it was all said and done. He still one of my favorite players and people. I just wish he had more health and better coaching. I really like JVG as a coach. I hate some of his offensive concepts though.

Outside of having Saint Riley step back down from his big office in the sky, you could hardly do better than having a Van Gundy as your coach for a big center. They are the heirs to the Riley tradition. In the past 20 years every great center in the league has pretty much been coached by Riley, a Van Gundy, Pop or Phil Jackson (and with Phil it was kind of an accident, his system wasn't built around it).

Yao didn't really emerge as a franchise level center until he was 25, when he had a season where he put up numbers quite similar to what Cousins did this year. Hence you would rather have had Joakim Noah. And he only had those 3 injury ravaged years at that level. He just never had any shot at all to be a Top 25 all time player.

[richboy]

Yao was much more talented.

Oden was second. I would have taken Yao over Oden in the draft though. Despite Oden being maybe the strongest guy lb for lb I've ever seen on a basketball court.

Nothing against Cousins but if your a 20 10 center and your team sucks your not that good. My problem is Cousins has no impact on the defensive end. That is the most important thing you need to get from your bigs. Offensive only bigs constantly under achieve. You have to keep making excuses for them. When in reality a big man's job starts with defense. If your not an elite defender at that position your impact is marginalized.

When Yao came into the league he look like he would change the position. He was a great passer. He could shoot with range in China. He was doing Hakeem like post moves. Then Patrick Ewing and JVG got a hold of him. JVG told him to stop passing. He was 7'6 so no reason to worry about a double teams. Patrick Ewing had him doing his arsenal of 2 post moves. Which should tell you something about why Dwight post game has advanced more in a few months with Hakeem than years with Patrick. Suddenly the Yao that we thought we was going to get turned into a better version of Rik Smits. Which still was really good. If not for injury I'll say he could have been a top 25 player all time when it was all said and done. He still one of my favorite players and people. I just wish he had more health and better coaching. I really like JVG as a coach. I hate some of his offensive concepts though.

Outside of having Saint Riley step back down from his big office in the sky, you could hardly do better than having a Van Gundy as your coach for a big center. They are the heirs to the Riley tradition. In the past 20 years every great center in the league has pretty much been coached by Riley, a Van Gundy, Pop or Phil Jackson (and with Phil it was kind of an accident, his system wasn't built around it).

Yao didn't really emerge as a franchise level center until he was 25, when he had a season where he put up numbers quite similar to what Cousins did this year. Hence you would rather have had Joakim Noah. And he only had those 3 injury ravaged years at that level. He just never had any shot at all to be a Top 25 all time player.

See you throw all the Van Gundy's together. I don't. I've always said SVG is a lot more offensive minded than his brother. JVG will sacrifice offense for his defensive philosophy. IMO he coached Yao to limit his decision making on the offensive end. With it took away some of his potential offensive impact. Now I'm not blaming it all on JVG. Patrick Ewing is highly overrated especially as an offensive player because his passing and post moves were not that great.

Not sure what you mean Phil system wasn't built for it. Phil system is the triple post offense. Yao would be much better in the triangle than that garbage JVG had Houston running.

[EasternHeretic]

Yao & Oden>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cousins

You think the gap is that big?

[penbeast0]

I wish I had seen Oden play more as a pro; without it I don't think you can judge him based just on the talent he showed in one year of college. In terms of draft hype, it was pretty clearly Oden by a healthy margin (people were talking about him as a generational talent like LeBron and above Durant), then Yao, then Cousins so if that's the "talent" level you are looking for . . .

[richboy]

Yao draft hype was also really high. If he had played basketball in America he would have no question been considered can't miss future all-time great. Playing in China put a big question mark. 7'6 guy with skills and athletism don't come around very often.

[O_6]

NBA Ceiling
Oden - Slightly better Patrick Ewing (used smarter/more efficiently offensively in today's NBA)

Yao - Healthy Yao

Cousins - Super Saiyan Zach Randolph

Oden was a DPOY candidate every single year type of player. Yao was a very good defensive anchor but his lack of mobility limited him and gave his trouble against certain types of small-ball lineups. Oden was not going to have those same problems as Yao, he had far superior help D potential than even Yao. Oden also was a legit 7 footer with huge size, so I think he may have had a higher defensive ceiling than even Dwight Howard whose height/size limits him somewhat on D. Roy Hibbert dominated this league on D this year for a long time, and he isn't 1/10th of the athlete Oden was.

Oden was a special player and it's a shame that we never saw his potential. This is a guy who would be in the Top 5 player of the year mix every single year of his prime had he stayed healthy.

Yao was a very good player but he was never on that level. His lack of mobility put limitations on his game. Cousins is simply too poor of a defensive player at this point. His athleticism hasn't translated into good defense yet and it never might. His poor D just makes him an easy 3rd for me. His offensive game certainly has a ton of potential. You could argue Cuz has the highest offensive ceiling, but in terms of 2 way ceiling he is the lowest imo.

[Clyde Frazier]

Yao & Oden>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cousins

I don't think you understand the question. That, or you haven't seen cousins play nearly enough.

[Notanoob]

Skill has always been weighed on a relative scale to the player's height. A guy who's well over 7 feet tall with just a good post game gets more credit for his skill than a guy under 7 feet tall. Yao was one of the most skilled guys over 7 feet tall (legit over 7 feet tall, not "7'1" in shoes after rounding up") ever, right up their with Shaq and Sabonis.

Oden is getting underrated. Go back and watch him in college. That was a guy relearning the game with his off-hand, since he broke his dominant hand, IIRC. What he did was really stunning. That dude was a monster, no disrespect to Cousins at all. Cousins is really up their in terms of offensive skills.

[HeartBreakKid]

Yao Ming was the best player amongst them easily. As for who had more potential, I would certainly say it was Oden.

[Winsome Gerbil]

You know, you can't establish who is the MVP or anything by highlight reels. But you can certainly go a long way to addressing talent by seeing what a player can do.

If you honestly have not seen much of Cousins, watch some of this compilation that was just from this year alone. not only just what he can do either, listen to the various team announcers. They know. There's no >>>>> involved in this comparison of centers, unless it be dumping poor Oden at the end of it for being unlucky.

This is a SPECTACULAR talent:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nEXo7K8QZU[/youtube]

[magicmerl]

Yao & Oden>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cousins

You think the gap is that big?

He's exaggerating. There should be no more than 3 >'s between Oden and Cousins.

[penbeast0]

NBA Ceiling
Oden - Slightly better Patrick Ewing (used smarter/more efficiently offensively in today's NBA)

Yao - Healthy Yao

Cousins - Super Saiyan Zach Randolph
....

What's a "Saiyan?"