Does Kobe do anything better than MJ?

MrKnox · Post #1 » by **MrKnox** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:41 pm

Name something Kobe does better than Jordan. Don't give me that "he's a better long range shooter" crap either. Just because Kobe shot a **** more from three doesn't make him a better three point shooter. Their percentages from downtown are almost identical and if Kobe keeps shooting 38% for the next year and a half he'll finish below MJ in 3 point percentage just like every other category. Not trying to knock Kobe, but how can some people think he's actually close to MJ if he can't do any one thing better? What say you?

KyletheDingbat · Post #2 » by **KyletheDingbat** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:51 pm

I think Kobe was more capable of flashy dribble drives than MJ. He could go behind the back into a spin in the lane and stuff. Jordan could do some of that too I guess, but MJ basically just burst into the lane like a cannonball whereas Kobe had to get more creative because he lacked that explosion. So that's my answer: flashy dribble drives.

On a side note, has Kobe been playing especially brutal lately? I checked his game logs and actually got sad. He's shooting 32% FG and 25% 3FG. That's quite awful. Is he getting tired, or is his body not responding?

MrKnox · Post #3 » by **MrKnox** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:58 pm

KyletheDingbat wrote:I think Kobe was more capable of flashy dribble drives than MJ. He could go behind the back into a spin in the lane and stuff. Jordan could do some of that too I guess, but MJ basically just burst into the lane like a cannonball whereas Kobe had to get more creative because he lacked that explosion. So that's my answer: flashy dribble drives.

On a side note, has Kobe been playing especially brutal lately? I checked his game logs and actually got sad. He's shooting 32% FG and 25% 3FG. That's quite awful. Is he getting tired, or is his body not responding?

As Indiana Jones once said "It's not the years, it's the mileage". Kobe's got a lot of miles on those tires. He only has Jordan beat in two statistical categories (barely) 3 point and free throw % but he will probably finish below MJ in both by the end of next season thus giving MJ a career sweep in all statistical categories. Think about that. That's how far away Kobe is from MJ greatness. It's not even close.

Post #4 » by **Quotatious** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:19 pm

Three point shooting is the only thing that I can see as arguable. Ballhandling, maybe, based on Bryant's creativity with his handles, but MJ could palm the ball more easily due to his much bigger hands, and in terms of efficiency with his handles, I don't see Jordan as any worse than Bryant. He could get anywhere he wanted with the ball, due to his incredible first step, speed and still very good handles. Kobe definitely wasn't as explosive (but still, he was one of the top athletes in the NBA in his prime, and fringe top 10 as far as the most athletic wings of all-time, just not in the same class as Jordan or LeBron, as an athlete or player).

Getting back to 3-point shooting - I'd probably give Kobe a slight edge in this regard, but 3-point shooting wasn't nearly as emphasized in the late 80s/90s as it is today, and Jordan was still capable of making threes on a good percentage with decent volume. In a vacuum though, I feel like Bryant is slightly better than him at that (but the gap is really miniscule).

Oh, and one more thing - it's not strictly about what they're capable of doing on a basketball court, but Kobe's work ethic is probably even better than Michael's - he's even more serious about the game (I can't really see Kobe gambling or drinking on a game day). Obviously it doesn't really matter, because it doesn't translate to what they're doing on the court, but I'm just trying to find anything that Kobe may be better at, than MJ.

FreeChef · Post #5 » by **FreeChef** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:04 pm

I was going to say that Kobe is the better off-court dresser, but I don't know...Close call.

Biddy77 · Post #6 » by **Biddy77** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:17 pm

I've commented before that I think Kobe would outperform Jordan in a skills test. Dribbling (not the same as ball handling, which factors in decision making), long range and ft shooting, passing, etc. Where it goes off the rails for Kobe is the application of those skills. Jordan played to his strengths, while Kobe has often settled for more challenging shots and insisted on doing it on his own instead of letting offensive sets get him initial catches in advantageous positions.

Prime example: within the triangle, Jordan accepted letting others initiate so that he got a lot of his catches in the high post. Why? Because he got the ball within 15 feet of the basket, starting against single coverage (he frequently saw help coming by the time he got within 18 using the dribble), without exertion. He recognized the value of starting from a position of advantage. Kobe insisted on being the primary handler most of the time and frequently waved away high picks. He effectively made things harder on himself, and still does.

Kobe's incredible career despite this is a testament to his incredible ability.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

flash22 · Post #7 » by **flash22** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:19 pm

Kobe didn't have a gambling problem, which cost Jordan 2 rings.

Post #8 » by **PaulieWal** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:24 pm

flash22 wrote:Kobe didn't have a gambling problem, which cost Jordan 2 rings.

No, it didn't. It makes absolutely no sense for the league/Stern to suspend the biggest superstar ever for 2 years in the middle of his prime. Let's just say that the league had some incriminating evidence, they would try to bury it. They wouldn't send their biggest superstar ever to play baseball in the middle of his prime. Look at it another way, if they could get away without publicly suspending/banning him from the league then why do it at all?

Post #9 » by **Quotatious** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:33 pm

PaulieWal wrote:No, it didn't. It makes absolutely no sense for the league/Stern to suspend the biggest superstar ever for 2 years in the middle of his prime. Let's just say that the league had some incriminating evidence, they would try to bury it. They wouldn't send their biggest superstar ever to play baseball in the middle of his prime. Look at it another way, if they could get away without publicly suspending/banning him from the league then why do it at all?

Besides, the Bulls most likely wouldn't win the next two titles ('94 is definitely possible, probably would've gone 7 games against the Rockets in the finals - considering that Olajuwon would destroy the Bulls inside, MJ and Scottie would have to make up for it - I'm not sure who wins, but '95? IMO Orlando would still beat them in the East, and even if they made the finals, the Olajuwon/Drexler duo would be too much to overcome, they probably lose in 6).

Even if they somehow managed to win 5 straight, I really don't see another 3-peat.

6 titles was about as much as they were going to get. I don't see more, to be honest.

flash22 · Post #10 » by **flash22** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:35 pm

PaulieWal wrote:
flash22 wrote:Kobe didn't have a gambling problem, which cost Jordan 2 rings.

No, it didn't. It makes absolutely no sense for the league/Stern to suspend the biggest superstar ever for 2 years in the middle of his prime. Let's just say that the league had some incriminating evidence, they would try to bury it. They wouldn't send their biggest superstar ever to play baseball in the middle of his prime. Look at it another way, if they could get away without publicly suspending/banning him from the league then why do it at all?

It was a different era back then, no social media to scrutinize every decision. It could have been Stern sending a message to Jordan that this can't happen again. If he wasn't suspended maybe he would have continued his habbit until it blew up in everyones face. If they just swept everything under the rug, why would Jordan ever stop gambling? Maybe next time it wouldnt be something they could cover up.

The wink wink suspension allows the league to save face and shows Jordan that he's not untouchable.

Joseph17 · Post #11 » by **Joseph17** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:42 pm

3 pt shooting

Post #12 » by **PaulieWal** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:43 pm

flash22 wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
flash22 wrote:Kobe didn't have a gambling problem, which cost Jordan 2 rings.

No, it didn't. It makes absolutely no sense for the league/Stern to suspend the biggest superstar ever for 2 years in the middle of his prime. Let's just say that the league had some incriminating evidence, they would try to bury it. They wouldn't send their biggest superstar ever to play baseball in the middle of his prime. Look at it another way, if they could get away without publicly suspending/banning him from the league then why do it at all?

It was a different era back then, no social media to scrutinize every decision. It could have been Stern sending a message to Jordan that this can't happen again. If he wasn't suspended maybe he would have continued his habbit until it blew up in everyones face. If they just swept everything under the rug, why would Jordan ever stop gambling? Maybe next time it wouldnt be something they could cover up.

The wink wink suspension allows the league to save face and shows Jordan that he's not untouchable.

Okay, then that's just conjecture. From a business perspective it makes no sense. The NBA couldn't care less about showing Jordan that he's not untouchable as long as he was playing in his prime and leading the league to ratings, merchandise sales, and increasing popularity.

ardee · Post #13 » by **ardee** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:44 pm

He's going to be a better owner than MJ, that's for sure.

Post #14 » by **PaulieWal** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:45 pm

Quotatious wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:No, it didn't. It makes absolutely no sense for the league/Stern to suspend the biggest superstar ever for 2 years in the middle of his prime. Let's just say that the league had some incriminating evidence, they would try to bury it. They wouldn't send their biggest superstar ever to play baseball in the middle of his prime. Look at it another way, if they could get away without publicly suspending/banning him from the league then why do it at all?

Besides, the Bulls most likely wouldn't win the next two titles ('94 is definitely possible, probably would've gone 7 games against the Rockets in the finals - considering that Olajuwon would destroy the Bulls inside, MJ and Scottie would have to make up for it - I'm not sure who wins, but '95? IMO Orlando would still beat them in the East, and even if they made the finals, the Olajuwon/Drexler duo would be too much to overcome, they probably lose in 6).

Even if they somehow managed to win 5 straight, I really don't see another 3-peat.

6 titles was about as much as they were going to get. I don't see more, to be honest.

That's how I feel as well. They certainly don't do another 3peat, they could however 4peat but the physical and mental toll of those 2 extra Finals' runs would have been too much for MJ. Steve Kerr said the break from basketball allowed MJ to preserve his body. I agree with that. MJ would still certainly be GOAT or a Top 3 GOAT but he isn't winning 8 in a row.

Post #15 » by **PaulieWal** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:46 pm

ardee wrote:He's going to be a better owner than MJ, that's for sure.

Can Kobe even buy a team now with the crazy valuations? MJ got lucky buying his team when he did. Now even a team like the Hornets would probably fetch $500 mil+.

flash22 · Post #16 » by **flash22** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:57 pm

PaulieWal wrote:
flash22 wrote:
PaulieWal wrote:
No, it didn't. It makes absolutely no sense for the league/Stern to suspend the biggest superstar ever for 2 years in the middle of his prime. Let's just say that the league had some incriminating evidence, they would try to bury it. They wouldn't send their biggest superstar ever to play baseball in the middle of his prime. Look at it another way, if they could get away without publicly suspending/banning him from the league then why do it at all?

It was a different era back then, no social media to scrutinize every decision. It could have been Stern sending a message to Jordan that this can't happen again. If he wasn't suspended maybe he would have continued his habbit until it blew up in everyones face. If they just swept everything under the rug, why would Jordan ever stop gambling? Maybe next time it wouldnt be something they could cover up.

The wink wink suspension allows the league to save face and shows Jordan that he's not untouchable.

Okay, then that's just conjecture. From a business perspective it makes no sense. The NBA couldn't care less about showing Jordan that he's not untouchable as long as he was playing in his prime and leading the league to ratings, merchandise sales, and increasing popularity.

They could if they truly believed that if they didn't send him a message, he would have only gotten worse. What they did prevented Jordan from becoming the next Pete Rose.

akward17 · Post #17 » by **akward17** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:02 pm

He's better at missing shots. (Intentionally not green)

Post #18 » by **PaulieWal** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:05 pm

flash22 wrote:They could if they truly believed that if they didn't send him a message, he would have only gotten worse. What they did prevented Jordan from becoming the next Pete Rose.

Right, but as I said it's all conjecture and nothing more than a 'conspiracy theory'. Sure it can be discussed but I wouldn't state it as a matter of fact that MJ's gambling cost him 2 years in the league.

ChokeFasncists · Post #19 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:07 pm

No Kwame.

whitehops · Post #20 » by **whitehops** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:11 pm

PaulieWal wrote:
ardee wrote:He's going to be a better owner than MJ, that's for sure.

Can Kobe even buy a team now with the crazy valuations? MJ got lucky buying his team when he did. Now even a team like the Hornets would probably fetch $500 mil+.

he would probably do what MJ did and become a part owner first.