Better Supporting Cast... LeBron or Curry?

[oaktownwarriors87]

What's the gap between LeBron's supporting cast vs Curry's supporting cast? Looks pretty close to me.

Since the deadline: Cavs are -3.4 w/o LeBron & the Warriors are -4.4 w/o Curry

STARTERS
Irving VS Thompson
Mozgov VS Bogut
Thompson vs Green
Shumpert VS Barnes

BENCH
Smith VS Iguodala
Dellavadova/Miller VS Livingston
Marion/Jones VS Barbosa
Perkins VS Ezeli

INJURED MISFITS
Love VS Lee
Verajo VS Speights

My initial thought was that the Warriors were much better team. After looking at it like this I really think it could be the Cavaliers. It's so close.

[GSP]

Is this supposed to be serious? Out of the matchups u listed the only one cavs have is kyrie over klay, and considering both of their injuries we won't know for a week

[oaktownwarriors87]

Is this supposed to be serious? Out of the matchups u listed the only one cavs have is kyrie over klay, and considering both of their injuries we won't know for a week

Since the trade deadline:
The Cavaliers are +10.8 with LeBron and -3.4 without.
Irving/Thompson/Mozgov are +13.6 without LeBron.

The Warriors are +13.9 with Curry and -4.4 without.
Thompson/Green/Bogut are -3.9 without Curry

The comparison is total fair.

[sp6r=underrated]

Plus Minus requires a lot more than 2 months of games. I am actually shocked that anyone picks the Cavs as having a better supporting cast. This thread will look awfully silly in 2 weeks.

[Joao Saraiva]

Golden State has a better cast, but it's not a very big gap.

[SaintofKillers]

Golden State has a better cast, but it's not a very big gap.

This.

Cavs are missing some great players (namely Varejao and Love) but they do have replacements that arguably have played better and thus negates whatever advantages those guys bring. And you can probably make an argument too that JR Smith's impact is roughly the same as Klay (Curry's #2) since he's a souped-up 3&D player, and he's always been.

[MisterRogers]

Warriors have the better supporting cast. I think its very difficult to predict what JR Smith is going to do. He is probably the x factor in this series. We know Lebron will be great, Tristan Thompson will do his thing with rebounding, Kyrie should still be able to score effectively (assuming he is healthy), and Shumpert will play great defense and could provide some scoring punch. JR like Josh Smith is either great or terrible. With the Warriors, we know Curry will be great, Klay will shoot well, Green will do everything (D and scoring), Bogut will play great D, Iggy will play great D and make plays. The only major player on Warriors that may be unpredictable is Harrison Barnes although he isnt nearly as extreme as JR.

Basically Lebron is going to have to work much harder than Curry in order to win the series for the Cavs

[Doctor MJ]

Warriors have the better supporting cast. I think its very difficult to predict what JR Smith is going to do. He is probably the x factor in this series. We know Lebron will be great, Tristan Thompson will do his thing with rebounding, Kyrie should still be able to score effectively (assuming he is healthy), and Shumpert will play great defense and could provide some scoring punch. JR like Josh Smith is either great or terrible. With the Warriors, we know Curry will be great, Klay will shoot well, Green will do everything (D and scoring), Bogut will play great D, Iggy will play great D and make plays. The only major player on Warriors that may be unpredictable is Harrison Barnes although he isnt nearly as extreme as JR.

Basically Lebron is going to have to work much harder than Curry in order to win the series for the Cavs

You had me until the very last line. Let me tweak what was said about +/- before:

While it's silly to make conclusions about how a team generally is going to be based on a small sample, that doesn't change the fact that the small sample size exists and if it continues it will be meaningful for as long it continues.

To this point the Cavs have been insanely success with him on the bench, and so long as that holds up, LeBron has an actual advantage in the series because of them.

And if it doesn't? Well, do we seriously think the Cavs will win if LeBron's supporting cast falls apart? I mean if they do win, then yeah in that case LeBron will probably have to do something crazy to make it happen, but there can be no talking about what each player will have to do without at least recognizing that the recent past in the case of one player's team doesn't support the prediction being made.

[giordunk]

Golden State easily... Switch the supporting casts around and the LeBron State Warriors are a dynasty.

[MisterRogers]

Warriors have the better supporting cast. I think its very difficult to predict what JR Smith is going to do. He is probably the x factor in this series. We know Lebron will be great, Tristan Thompson will do his thing with rebounding, Kyrie should still be able to score effectively (assuming he is healthy), and Shumpert will play great defense and could provide some scoring punch. JR like Josh Smith is either great or terrible. With the Warriors, we know Curry will be great, Klay will shoot well, Green will do everything (D and scoring), Bogut will play great D, Iggy will play great D and make plays. The only major player on Warriors that may be unpredictable is Harrison Barnes although he isnt nearly as extreme as JR.

Basically Lebron is going to have to work much harder than Curry in order to win the series for the Cavs

You had me until the very last line. Let me tweak what was said about +/- before:

While it's silly to make conclusions about how a team generally is going to be based on a small sample, that doesn't change the fact that the small sample size exists and if it continues it will be meaningful for as long it continues.

To this point the Cavs have been insanely success with him on the bench, and so long as that holds up, LeBron has an actual advantage in the series because of them.

And if it doesn't? Well, do we seriously think the Cavs will win if LeBron's supporting cast falls apart? I mean if they do win, then yeah in that case LeBron will probably have to do something crazy to make it happen, but there can be no talking about what each player will have to do without at least recognizing that the recent past in the case of one player's team doesn't support the prediction being made.

I am not sure if I understood you fully, but are you saying that in order for the Cavs to beat the Warriors the Cavs supporting cast will need to come through and play better than the Warriors supporting cast? I do agree with that but I just dont see it happening since the Warriors are so deep and talented. That is why I think Lebron is going to have to be incredible in order for them to win the series given that the Warriors supporting cast is better.

[Doctor MJ]

Warriors have the better supporting cast. I think its very difficult to predict what JR Smith is going to do. He is probably the x factor in this series. We know Lebron will be great, Tristan Thompson will do his thing with rebounding, Kyrie should still be able to score effectively (assuming he is healthy), and Shumpert will play great defense and could provide some scoring punch. JR like Josh Smith is either great or terrible. With the Warriors, we know Curry will be great, Klay will shoot well, Green will do everything (D and scoring), Bogut will play great D, Iggy will play great D and make plays. The only major player on Warriors that may be unpredictable is Harrison Barnes although he isnt nearly as extreme as JR.

Basically Lebron is going to have to work much harder than Curry in order to win the series for the Cavs

You had me until the very last line. Let me tweak what was said about +/- before:

While it's silly to make conclusions about how a team generally is going to be based on a small sample, that doesn't change the fact that the small sample size exists and if it continues it will be meaningful for as long it continues.

To this point the Cavs have been insanely success with him on the bench, and so long as that holds up, LeBron has an actual advantage in the series because of them.

And if it doesn't? Well, do we seriously think the Cavs will win if LeBron's supporting cast falls apart? I mean if they do win, then yeah in that case LeBron will probably have to do something crazy to make it happen, but there can be no talking about what each player will have to do without at least recognizing that the recent past in the case of one player's team doesn't support the prediction being made.

I am not sure if I understood you fully, but are you saying that in order for the Cavs to beat the Warriors the Cavs supporting cast will need to come through and play better than the Warriors supporting cast? I do agree with that but I just dont see it happening since the Warriors are so deep and talented. That is why I think Lebron is going to have to be incredible in order for them to win the series given that the Warriors supporting cast is better.

I'm not actually going to say that, I'm must saying that while I understand it seems unlikely that the Cavs supporting cast will outplay the Warriors' cast, that is precisely what the Cavs' cast has been doing all post-season which is the only reason this thread exists.

I'd be fine if you said "probably have to", but the certainty of your post made feel like responding. I'm sure that sounds pedantic and I apologize. Not trying to knock you down, really I'm just amazed that the Cavs have had the success they've had. I don't fully understand it.

[MisterRogers]

You had me until the very last line. Let me tweak what was said about +/- before:

While it's silly to make conclusions about how a team generally is going to be based on a small sample, that doesn't change the fact that the small sample size exists and if it continues it will be meaningful for as long it continues.

To this point the Cavs have been insanely success with him on the bench, and so long as that holds up, LeBron has an actual advantage in the series because of them.

And if it doesn't? Well, do we seriously think the Cavs will win if LeBron's supporting cast falls apart? I mean if they do win, then yeah in that case LeBron will probably have to do something crazy to make it happen, but there can be no talking about what each player will have to do without at least recognizing that the recent past in the case of one player's team doesn't support the prediction being made.

I am not sure if I understood you fully, but are you saying that in order for the Cavs to beat the Warriors the Cavs supporting cast will need to come through and play better than the Warriors supporting cast? I do agree with that but I just dont see it happening since the Warriors are so deep and talented. That is why I think Lebron is going to have to be incredible in order for them to win the series given that the Warriors supporting cast is better.

I'm not actually going to say that, I'm must saying that while I understand it seems unlikely that the Cavs supporting cast will outplay the Warriors' cast, that is precisely what the Cavs' cast has been doing all post-season which is the only reason this thread exists.

I'd be fine if you said "probably have to", but the certainty of your post made feel like responding. I'm sure that sounds pedantic and I apologize. Not trying to knock you down, really I'm just amazed that the Cavs have had the success they've had. I don't fully understand it.

Do you think the Cavs have had this success due to the competition in the east being worse? That is the way I see it. I am not sure the Cavs beat the Spurs, Clippers or Warriors if they played at this same level.

[Doctor MJ]

Do you think the Cavs have had this success due to the competition in the east being worse? That is the way I see it. I am not sure the Cavs beat the Spurs, Clippers or Warriors if they played at this same level.

Good point. I can't say I think the Cavs would have had the same success against the West.

[yoyoboy]

If you pick LeBron you're wrong. Plain and simple. Honestly it's really not even close.

Klay>Kyrie
Bogut>Mozgov
Green>Thompson
Barnes>Shumpert
GS Bench>Cle Bench

[MisterRogers]

If you pick LeBron you're wrong. Plain and simple. Honestly it's really not even close.

Klay>Kyrie
Bogut>Mozgov
Green>Thompson
Barnes>Shumpert
GS Bench>Cle Bench

Klay is not better than Kyrie. Maybe right now because of his injury. Otherwise I take Kyrie all day over Klay. I think Shump and Barnes are about equal. In some ways TT is probably just as valuable as Green.

[yoyoboy]

If you pick LeBron you're wrong. Plain and simple. Honestly it's really not even close.

Klay>Kyrie
Bogut>Mozgov
Green>Thompson
Barnes>Shumpert
GS Bench>Cle Bench

Klay is not better than Kyrie. Maybe right now because of his injury. Otherwise I take Kyrie all day over Klay. I think Shump and Barnes are about equal. In some ways TT is probably just as valuable as Green.

As a Cavs fan I can honestly say that, injury or not, Kyrie is not better than Klay. Klay is the better and more efficient scorer and a far better defender. And Draymond is definitely better than Tristan. Tristan is a slightly better rebounder, but Draymond's advantages in playmaking and scoring/floor spacing offset that. Shumpert might be equal to Barnes though.

Still, overall, Steph's supporting cast is definitely a lot better than LeBron's. If Love were healthy it might be about equal.

[Dupp]

If you're not including Love then Warriors pretty easily. Especially considering they have arguably the best 2 defenders in the nba on that roster.

[Rob Diaz]

Don't really see Shumpert being better than Barnes, either. Maybe Shumpert is a slightly better defender(maybe), but Barnes is a much better dribble creator and post player. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I'm sure he's a better shooter, as well.

[MO12msu]

Not only do I think the Warrior's roster is more talented, but I think something that has been widely ignored is that the actual fit of their roster is about as perfect as you will find. Especially for Steph.

Since he draws so many traps off the pick and roll, Steph usually passes out of it and leaves his team with 4 on 3 matchups. The Warriors have the perfect blend of high level playmakers(at their respective positions) to take advantage of it(like iggy, green, and bogut), and find the plethora of cutters(iggy, barnes, green, etc), or shooters(klay, steph, green, etc).

And they're all good to excellent defenders so they give nothing back on the defensive end, and their elite defense also allows them even more transition opportunities where their offense is more effective. Another perfect fit about them, these guys all have the requisite length needed to switch, making it almost impossible to exploit any weaknesses.

Talent aside it's just one of those situations where put together, the sum is greater than its parts even though the parts are very good by themselves.

[Massamba]

Klay all star
Barnes role player
Green could have been DPOY
Bogut former 1st overall pick and one of the better devensive big men in nba
Iggy former all star
Lee former all star

VS

Irving all star
Shumpert role playoer
TT role player
Mozgov role player
Smith former 6th man of the year
Mattew D role player
James Jones 80 years old role player

Who has the best supporting cast? I don't know.