2016/17 Player of the Year discussion thread

clyde21 · Post #1501 » by **clyde21** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:43 pm

bondom34 wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/66xbuz/okcs_efg_rises_by_101_on_shots_from_westbrooks/

Interesting look at passes to teammates. PG13's teammates shoot way way better when he's the passer, same for Westbrook. PG's jump is crazy huge.

Skewed data. How they compare to LeBron proves it.

eminence · Post #1502 » by **eminence** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:12 pm

Seen a lot of love for Wall in the last couple pages for one of last ballot spots, would one of his supporters mind laying out what they feel his case is? Wall does fall into my long-shot category (with Gobert/Durant/Lowry/Millsap), but as of now at least I feel fairly confident with these 9 above him(no order):

Curry
Westbrook
CP3
Harden
Lebron
Butler
Kawhi
Giannis
Draymond

I understand some don't believe in Draymond, but the other 8 are still there.

GSP · Post #1503 » by **GSP** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:07 pm

As great as Giannis is he's prolly still too raw/young/inexperienced for me to take him over Wall. Freak human specimen, nigh unguardable in transition makes up for a lack of craft/fundamentals/skills that he doesn't have now, makes crazy highlight plays every game but fundamentally there are still issues in his game on both ends specially in the halfcourt

clyde21 · Post #1504 » by **clyde21** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:42 am

GSP wrote:As great as Giannis is he's prolly still too raw/young/inexperienced for me to take him over Wall. Freak human specimen, nigh unguardable in transition makes up for a lack of craft/fundamentals/skills that he doesn't have now, makes crazy highlight plays every game but fundamentally there are still issues in his game on both ends specially in the halfcourt

Yup -- tremendous all-around talent and is fun to watch but he still doesn't do the little things as well as some of the guys in the MVP conversations. He'll get there obviously but he's still green in some areas.

kayess · Post #1505 » by **kayess** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:01 am

clyde21 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/66xbuz/okcs_efg_rises_by_101_on_shots_from_westbrooks/

Interesting look at passes to teammates. PG13's teammates shoot way way better when he's the passer, same for Westbrook. PG's jump is crazy huge.

Skewed data. How they compare to LeBron proves it.

Lol how is it skewed because of how they compare to LeBron??

clyde21 · Post #1506 » by **clyde21** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:05 am

kayess wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/66xbuz/okcs_efg_rises_by_101_on_shots_from_westbrooks/

Interesting look at passes to teammates. PG13's teammates shoot way way better when he's the passer, same for Westbrook. PG's jump is crazy huge.

Skewed data. How they compare to LeBron proves it.

Lol how is it skewed because of how they compare to LeBron??

B/c of the volume/sample size.

Post #1507 » by **bondom34** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:29 am

kayess wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/66xbuz/okcs_efg_rises_by_101_on_shots_from_westbrooks/

Interesting look at passes to teammates. PG13's teammates shoot way way better when he's the passer, same for Westbrook. PG's jump is crazy huge.

Skewed data. How they compare to LeBron proves it.

Lol how is it skewed because of how they compare to LeBron??

Because of Westbrook.

Post #1508 » by **bondom34** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:29 am

So....Kawhi?

MO12msu · Post #1509 » by **MO12msu** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 2:38 am

Everyone is too good. I'm gonna have like an 8 way tie for first this year.

kayess · Post #1510 » by **kayess** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:31 am

bondom34 wrote:
kayess wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Skewed data. How they compare to LeBron proves it.

Lol how is it skewed because of how they compare to LeBron??

Because of Westbrook.

LOL.

At the same time, I don't think the data is all that valid (not that big a sample, does not account for hockey assists on openings created by the star, etc.), and you also don't need this to say OKC and Indy's casts are worse than Cleveland/Houston's. I applaud the effort for finding ways to quantify impact though, I would still use TS/eFG differential on/off the court for something like this (which should increase the gap even further)

clyde21 · Post #1511 » by **clyde21** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:15 am

bondom34 wrote:
kayess wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Skewed data. How they compare to LeBron proves it.

Lol how is it skewed because of how they compare to LeBron??

Because of Westbrook.

No, because Westrook's passes are like 40% of the rest of the team, so it's obviously going to be skewed and it'll regress to mean. Not sure what you think this proves, really.

Pablo Novi · Post #1512 » by **Pablo Novi** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:31 pm

GSP wrote:As great as Giannis is he's prolly still too raw/young/inexperienced for me to take him over Wall. Freak human specimen, nigh unguardable in transition makes up for a lack of craft/fundamentals/skills that he doesn't have now, makes crazy highlight plays every game but fundamentally there are still issues in his game on both ends specially in the halfcourt

Imo, IF Giannis hammers this summer (strength/conditioning plus fundamentals); he's a perennial MVP candidate for the next 10 years.

2017 MVP: any of: Westbrook, Harden, LBJ, Kawhi, Curry.
2017 Player of the Year: LBJ - he's still the best, most complete player we've got.

clyde21 · Post #1513 » by **clyde21** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:13 pm

Jeez...I'm not big on the assist category but how the hell does Kyrie Irving get 0 assists in a playoff game? Weird line today:

28/2/0 with 2 steals, a block and 2 TOs.

dreamshake · Post #1514 » by **dreamshake** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:37 pm

clyde21 wrote:Jeez...I'm not big on the assist category but how the hell does Kyrie Irving get 0 assists in a playoff game? Weird line today:

28/2/0 with 2 steals, a block and 2 TOs.

1 steal and 3 blocks actually, which makes it even stranger.

GSP · Post #1515 » by **GSP** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:45 am

1. Iso
2. Joe
3. 120 milli
4. JoeJesus
5. Johnson

RSCD3_ · Post #1516 » by **RSCD3_** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:58 am

If someone said your opponent loses their best player for 3 games and their 2nd best is food poisoned for the 4th. Would you expect to only be 2-2?

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

Lost92Bricks · Post #1517 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:29 am

RSCD3_ wrote:If someone said your opponent loses their best player for 3 games and their 2nd best is food poisoned for the 4th. Would you expect to only be 2-2?

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

Is this before or after I am told that I will lose my #1 scorer in the process?

Post #1518 » by **bondom34** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:34 am

Lost92Bricks wrote:
RSCD3_ wrote:If someone said your opponent loses their best player for 3 games and their 2nd best is food poisoned for the 4th. Would you expect to only be 2-2?

Sent from my SM-T550 using RealGM mobile app

Is this before or after I am told that I will lose my #1 scorer in the process?

Watching the Clippers thinking "Welcome to my season"

lorak · Post #1519 » by **lorak** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:33 am

Does HOU-OKC settle that RW>Harden? I think everyone agrees, that Westbrook has worse supporting cast and yet when both of them are on the court together Oklahoma plays better (Russell's +/-):

G4 +10 in 34 minutes
G3 -2 in 35 minutes
G2 +10 in 34 minutes
G1 -21 in 30 minutes

Of course in total +/- Harden has slight advantage, but G1 blowout looks like aberration and probably games 2-4 give better picture of their impact.

E-Balla · Post #1520 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:13 am

lorak wrote:Does HOU-OKC settle that RW>Harden? I think everyone agrees, that Westbrook has worse supporting cast and yet when both of them are on the court together Oklahoma plays better (Russell's +/-):

G4 +10 in 34 minutes
G3 -2 in 35 minutes
G2 +10 in 34 minutes
G1 -21 in 30 minutes

Of course in total +/- Harden has slight advantage, but G1 blowout looks like aberration and probably games 2-4 give better picture of their impact.

I personally think it does but many people don't to say the least. Game 1 was a legit problem but Russ has been giving it to him for 3 games now only to see Lou Will and Nene completely erase that.