2016/17 Player of the Year discussion thread

PCProductions · Post #181 » by **PCProductions** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:11 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Could Leonard's regress in defensive stats be more due to the fact that he plays with Pau Gasol now?

It's probably the most logical reason of being tasked with more offensive duties. It happens to virtually everyone.

clyde21 · Post #182 » by **clyde21** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:18 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Could Leonard's regress in defensive stats be more due to the fact that he plays with Pau Gasol now?

He's taken on a larger offensive load...hard to imagine he'd also keep up the same type of defensive intensity he's had before. It's just not possible over an 82-game RS.

Post #183 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:48 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:Well this difficult to say looks like harden is Player of the year so far. Clearly the top reason for the rockets surprising sucess. Another triple double. ..

Part of me is happy for d'antoni as his stints in NY and LA portrayed him as a 1 hit wonder. My only real issue with him in NY was he shares one of the worst traits many coaches seem to have: stubbornness.

Rockets are actually playing at a slightly slower pace than last season, and harden's just been off the charts. His 59.2% AST currently ranks the highest all time in front of 91 stockton at 57.5%. Since 74, his 17.1 assists per 100 are the highest ever for a player averaging 20+ PPG.

Of course he will likely come down to earth somewhat over the course of the season, but it's fun to track this stuff. Just incredible production.

eminence · Post #184 » by **eminence** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:16 pm

Hadn't really been following Butler, but caught his last two games, and got a chance to look up what he's been doing earlier in the season. Definitely enough to earn fringe candidacy so far in my opinion.

My tiers currently:
Top End - CP3, Harden
Worthy of Top 5 Placement - Lebron, Kawhi, Westbrook, Curry, Durant
Fringe Candidates- Butler, Green, Cousins, Griffin, Giannis, Davis, maybe Kemba?(have to watch him sometime)

Not buying into DeRozan (I mean he's clearly stepped it up, but this is for a top 10-15 spot), and the only thing he's doing is scoring(which he's doing very well, but more at a prime Kobe level, and not like Jordan which all the media are trying to paint it as). And a considerably worse defensive, off-ball, and playmaking Kobe isn't actually that great of a player (all-star, but that's about it).

eminence · Post #185 » by **eminence** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:06 pm

Basic stats up-date.

Player: pts100/reb100/ast100, TS%, On/Off (all from bbref 11/24)

CP3: 30/8/14, 63%, +23.4
Harden: 38/10/17, 62%, +24.6
Butler: 37/10/6, 63%, +15.5
Durant: 38/11/6, 68%, +13.1
Kawhi: 38/10/5, 60%, -0.8
Westbrook: 44/13/15, 56%, +21.3
Griffin: 32/14/7, 57%, +27.3
Green: 15/13/10, 51%, +12.7
Curry: 38/6/9, 66%, +17.9
Cousins: 42/15/5, 57%, +14.0
Davis: 41/14/3, 60%, +4.6
Lebron: 32/12/13, 59%, +25.1

eminence · Post #186 » by **eminence** » Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:56 pm

Another one stop stat up-date shop.

Player: pts100/reb100/ast100, TS%, On/Off (per100, TS% from bbref 11/26, on/off per 100 from nbawowy 11/26)

Westbrook: 44/13/15, 56%, +26.5
Lebron: 32/11/13, 59%, +26
Griffin: 32/13/7, 57%, +23.7
Harden: 38/10/17, 62%, +22.6
CP3: 29/8/14, 62%, +17.2
Curry: 38/6/9, 66%, +16.9
Butler: 37/10/6, 63%, +15.6
Durant: 38/11/7, 68%, +12.9
Giannis: 32/12/9, 57%, +12.7
Green: 15/13/10, 52%, +9.4
Cousins: 42/15/5, 57%, +9
Davis: 41/14/3, 60%, +6.9
Kawhi: 38/10/5, 60%, -0.1

And as a Jazz fan, shoutout to Rudy:
18/18/2, 67%, +21

Been playing phenomenal after the big pay day.

Sebastian · Post #187 » by **Sebastian** » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:22 pm

I really have no idea what to think of Butler's massive leap this year. On one hand, the three point shooting could very well crash at any moment given that he's only a 33% shooter from 3 over his career. On the other, he has logged two seasons at 38%, so it's not really out of the realm of possibility that he settles in the high thirties/low forties and stays there. Then there's his free throw shooting. Exactly one player (Durant 09-10) has shot at least 90% from the line while taking at least 10 free throws per game. Butler is currently at 89% and 9.7. Can he really have a GOAT-caliber free throw shooting season? I honestly don't know. I think it's quite possible given his style of play, athleticism, and knack for drawing contact that he can hit 10 FTA/G. But 90%? That seems out of reach for someone who has never eclipsed 83% before.

Butler's offseaosn workouts are quickly becoming the stuff of legend -- can sheer hard work turn an offensively challenged role player into an All-Star into a HOFer? That's the track he's on, and there are very few similar cases in NBA history. Most players who end up this good displayed either a more complete, polished game or more discernible potential at age 22 than Butler did. If nothing else it's been fascinating watching him develop over the years.

clyde21 · Post #188 » by **clyde21** » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:19 pm

I really think the NBA should have a most outstanding player or a offensive player of the year award -- especially for players who won't get strong MVP recognition because their teams are not good enough.

I'd have Paul as MVP right now and Davis as most outstanding player.

Colbinii · Post #189 » by **Colbinii** » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:44 pm

clyde21 wrote:I really think the NBA should have a most outstanding player or a offensive player of the year award -- especially for players who won't get strong MVP recognition because their teams are not good enough.

I'd have Paul as MVP right now and Davis as most outstanding player.

They should have 449 awards so every player can get one. That way, the NBA will be just like Field Day is now a days where everyone gets a ribbon.

HeartBreakKid · Post #190 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:49 am

PCProductions wrote:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Could Leonard's regress in defensive stats be more due to the fact that he plays with Pau Gasol now?

It's probably the most logical reason of being tasked with more offensive duties. It happens to virtually everyone.

Hm...but the most logical reasoning for the Spurs being a worse defense team is them getting rid of a great defender in Duncan and replacing him with horrible defenders in Gasol and Lee.

Your 2nd sentence isn't true. There have been plenty of great players who had great scoring seasons and elite defense. Players scale back on their defense when age starts to become an issue and they need to save themselves for the playoffs. Otherwise, most all time great players have had seasons of playing stellar defense and stellar offense.

Abdul-Jabar, Jordan, Chamberlain, O'Neal, CP3, West, Wade, James, Olajuwon, Robinson, Frazier, Duncan, Garnett, Dr.J, really - the list goes on and on, pretty much all of those guys have had at least one season (multiple for all of them imo) where they've played stellar defense and superstar offense (for some, might have even peaked offensively).

clyde21 · Post #191 » by **clyde21** » Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:22 pm

Colbinii wrote:
clyde21 wrote:I really think the NBA should have a most outstanding player or a offensive player of the year award -- especially for players who won't get strong MVP recognition because their teams are not good enough.

I'd have Paul as MVP right now and Davis as most outstanding player.

They should have 449 awards so every player can get one. That way, the NBA will be just like Field Day is now a days where everyone gets a ribbon.

*Crickets*

lorak · Post #192 » by **lorak** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 11:42 am

Don't have time to elaborate, so just my top 10 list after first month of the season:

1. CP3
2. Durant
2. Davis
4. Drymond
5. Curry
6. Harden
7. LeBron
8. Westbrook
9. Butler
10. Kawhi

yoyoboy · Post #193 » by **yoyoboy** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 4:05 pm

lorak wrote:Don't have time to elaborate, so just my top 10 list after first month of the season:

1. CP3
2. Durant
2. Davis
4. Drymond
5. Curry
6. Harden
7. LeBron
8. Westbrook
9. Butler
10. Kawhi

I really struggle to see any justification whatsoever for putting not one, not two, but three Warriors ahead of LeBron, especially when only one loss separates them in the standings.

Not trying to be an ass. Just interested in your input.

lorak · Post #194 » by **lorak** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 4:22 pm

First of all I still struggle with how much credit give to each Warriors's superstar, so I've decided to keep them close to each other (but obviously Durant looks like the best for me). Second, LeBron is coasting and I can't ignore it. Team result is great, but Cavs had VERY easy schedule (-1.4 SOS 2nd easiest in the NBA, only 3 games vs West, just 6 away), so I don't value it as much as pure W/L record or SRS suggests.

clyde21 · Post #195 » by **clyde21** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 4:28 pm

Love the guy, but there's no way in hell should Draymond be ranked above LeBron, Harden, and Westbrook. Or even Butler and Kawhi for the matter.

lorak · Post #196 » by **lorak** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 6:50 pm

We had a lot of discussions about him past couple of years and if someone isn't convinced yet that he has MVP level impact, then so be it. But especially people who value things outside of scoring, should praise Green very high. If Plato's world would exist, then "intangibles and defense" ideas would look just like Draymond.

Ballerhogger · Post #197 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 7:03 pm

lorak wrote:Don't have time to elaborate, so just my top 10 list after first month of the season:

1. CP3
2. Durant
2. Davis
4. Drymond
5. Curry
6. Harden
7. LeBron
8. Westbrook
9. Butler
10. Kawhi

Really?

The clippers are on losing streak to end the month out. Just lost to the nets in double OT

Westbrook is triple double machine and is right there with harden rockets. ..

Ballerhogger · Post #198 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 7:05 pm

yoyoboy wrote:
lorak wrote:Don't have time to elaborate, so just my top 10 list after first month of the season:

1. CP3
2. Durant
2. Davis
4. Drymond
5. Curry
6. Harden
7. LeBron
8. Westbrook
9. Butler
10. Kawhi

I really struggle to see any justification whatsoever for putting not one, not two, but three Warriors ahead of LeBron, especially when only one loss separates them in the standings.

Not trying to be an ass. Just interested in your input.

Lebron is clearly coasting took a game off this month and has some pretty average games this past month.

Ballerhogger · Post #199 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Dec 1, 2016 7:12 pm

Top 5
Westbrook
Durant
Harden
DeRozan
Kawhi
Outside of the top 5
Chris Paul
Lebron James
Curry
Giannis
Cousins

HeartBreakKid · Post #200 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Fri Dec 2, 2016 12:37 am

Ballerhogger wrote:
lorak wrote:Don't have time to elaborate, so just my top 10 list after first month of the season:

1. CP3
2. Durant
2. Davis
4. Drymond
5. Curry
6. Harden
7. LeBron
8. Westbrook
9. Butler
10. Kawhi

Really?

The clippers are on losing streak to end the month out. Just lost to the nets in double OT

Westbrook is triple double machine and is right there with harden rockets. ..

They rested Blake Griffin that game.