Lowest Seed That Would Get Westbrook the MVP If He Averages a TD

[SlowPaced]

Why does Westbrook and his TD even matter? Harden is averaging 2 more APG on much better efficiency. 3 fewer RPG doesn't mean a thing when we know Westbrook is a stat-padder on the defensive glass.

I'm sorry but this is an utter joke. I've seen this assertion far too many times on Realgm and elsewhere to not respond.

Westbrook attacks the defensive glass because it's a GREAT strategy for his team. Thunder are at their deadliest when Russ gets the board and heads out to the break. I'd think anyone who watches them regularly would spot this after watching a quarter alone, but apparently not. Apparently the dude is a stat padder.

Free rebounds, eh? Maybe, just maybe, the bigmen are boxing out and leaving the board to Russ to head out on the break quicker because they know Russ is gonna be there in a split second?

[bondom34]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5fed6o/contested_rebouding_whiteside_collects_the_most/

Which proved nothing. As the same guy posted today.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5fqwdn/contested_rebounding_pt_2_the_value_of_russell/

All that shows is that Westbrook can start those quick breaks when he gets the ball directly, which may positively impact the Thunders' offense. However, this doesn't change how he gets 'free' rebounds when his teammates are all running on the break and deferring to him multiple rebounds a game.

Which doesn't make him "stat padding". It means he's doing what's best for his team. Given he's made more of a lift to OKC's offense than Harden to Houston's and isn't stat padding, seems your first post was just incorrect .

[CptCrunch]

Why does Westbrook and his TD even matter? Harden is averaging 2 more APG on much better efficiency. 3 fewer RPG doesn't mean a thing when we know Westbrook is a stat-padder on the defensive glass.

I'm sorry but this is an utter joke. I've seen this assertion far too many times on Realgm and elsewhere to not respond.

Westbrook attacks the defensive glass because it's a GREAT strategy for his team. Thunder are at their deadliest when Russ gets the board and heads out to the break. I'd think anyone who watches them regularly would spot this after watching a quarter alone, but apparently not. Apparently the dude is a stat padder.

Free rebounds, eh? Maybe, just maybe, the bigmen are boxing out and leaving the board to Russ to head out on the break quicker because they know Russ is gonna be there in a split second?

You just admitted that his rebounds are inflated because you believe it to be a 'great strategy', which has yet to be proven. But this is not the point. I'm not claiming that this practice is or is not beneficial to the Thunders. Rather, this affirms my assertion that his rebound rate is higher than ones for other guard on teams who do not employ this system.

As a result, the implementation of Thunder's rebounding scheme artificially inflates Westbrook's rebounding rate. This is undeniable fact.

[bondom34]

So wait by that measure you'd say the exact same of Harden's numbers being improved due to MDA's system.

[Rapcity_11]

So wait by that measure you'd say the exact same of Harden's numbers being improved due to MDA's system.

Is there really a difference in the let Westbrook do everything and let Harden do everything systems?

[CptCrunch]

So wait by that measure you'd say the exact same of Harden's numbers being improved due to MDA's system.

Yes, you could make that claim, but it is not MDA's system that has increased Harden's assist number. It is MDA's decision to move Harden to PG. Harden has just moved to playing PG full time now. Additionally, assists are also not 'free' unlike uncontested rebounds.

You don't get 'free' assists in the NBA by just playing PG. You sure do get 'free' rebounds when the other 9 players all run back to the other side of the court to play offense/defense.

You could run Thunder's rebounding scheme with any PG. You can't play any SG as your full time PG. Hell, why aren't all the other full time PG's in the league averaging 12 assists a game? There sure are a lot of high usage ball bounding point guards in the league.

[bondom34]

So wait by that measure you'd say the exact same of Harden's numbers being improved due to MDA's system.

Yes, you could make that claim, but it is not MDA's system that has increased Harden's assist number. It is MDA's decision to move Harden to PG. Harden has just moved to playing PG full time now. Additionally, assists are also not 'free' unlike uncontested rebounds.

You don't get 'free' assists in the NBA by just playing PG. You sure do get 'free' rebounds when the other 9 players all run back to the other side of the court to play offense/defense.

You could run Thunder's rebounding scheme with any PG. You can't play any SG as your full time PG. Hell, why aren't all the other full time PG's in the league averaging 12 assists a game? There sure are a lot of high usage ball bounding point guards in the league.

You realize he's done this the last 3 years right? He's no more a PG now than ever.

And you do tend to get more "free" assists if you've got shooters and have the ball more. Harden has more, and more.

http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


Averaging under 1 potential assist/game more with .7 mpg more possession.
http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?sort=POTENTIAL_AST&dir=1

So wait by that measure you'd say the exact same of Harden's numbers being improved due to MDA's system.

Is there really a difference in the let Westbrook do everything and let Harden do everything systems?

No but saying it benefits one and not the other is wrong.

[SlowPaced]

Why does Westbrook and his TD even matter? Harden is averaging 2 more APG on much better efficiency. 3 fewer RPG doesn't mean a thing when we know Westbrook is a stat-padder on the defensive glass.

I'm sorry but this is an utter joke. I've seen this assertion far too many times on Realgm and elsewhere to not respond.

Westbrook attacks the defensive glass because it's a GREAT strategy for his team. Thunder are at their deadliest when Russ gets the board and heads out to the break. I'd think anyone who watches them regularly would spot this after watching a quarter alone, but apparently not. Apparently the dude is a stat padder.

Free rebounds, eh? Maybe, just maybe, the bigmen are boxing out and leaving the board to Russ to head out on the break quicker because they know Russ is gonna be there in a split second?

You just admitted that his rebounds are inflated because you believe it to be a 'great strategy', which has yet to be proven. But this is not the point. I'm not claiming that this practice is or is not beneficial to the Thunders. Rather, this affirms my assertion that his rebound rate is higher than ones for other guard on teams who do not employ this system.

As a result, the implementation of Thunder's rebounding scheme artificially inflates Westbrook's rebounding rate. This is undeniable fact.

No, because the system was built with Russ' ability to hit the boards in mind in the first place.

[CptCrunch]

So wait by that measure you'd say the exact same of Harden's numbers being improved due to MDA's system.

Yes, you could make that claim, but it is not MDA's system that has increased Harden's assist number. It is MDA's decision to move Harden to PG. Harden has just moved to playing PG full time now. Additionally, assists are also not 'free' unlike uncontested rebounds.

You don't get 'free' assists in the NBA by just playing PG. You sure do get 'free' rebounds when the other 9 players all run back to the other side of the court to play offense/defense.

You could run Thunder's rebounding scheme with any PG. You can't play any SG as your full time PG. Hell, why aren't all the other full time PG's in the league averaging 12 assists a game? There sure are a lot of high usage ball bounding point guards in the league.

You realize he's done this the last 3 years right? He's no more a PG now than ever.

And you do tend to get more "free" assists if you've got shooters and have the ball more. Harden has more, and more.

http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


Averaging under 1 potential assist/game more with .7 mpg more possession.
http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?sort=POTENTIAL_AST&dir=1

So wait by that measure you'd say the exact same of Harden's numbers being improved due to MDA's system.

Is there really a difference in the let Westbrook do everything and let Harden do everything systems?

No but saying it benefits one and not the other is wrong.

What are you trying to argue here? Westbrook is as good as Harden at passing, but yields less assists because his team is worse at shooting?

Potential assist does not adjust for the quality of passes. Not all passes are equal. Your argument only works when you believe that Harden and Westbrook produce the same quality of passes. I'm not saying they do or don't; we simply don't have any readily available stats to quantity this. I doubt you will try to argue that all passes are of the same quality.

Here is some simply charismatic that suggest that Harden's passes are better.

And regarding your shots argument. Rockets take 66.2 shots without Harden. Thunders take 64.8 shots without Westbrook. With Harden and Westbrook removed, Rockets and Thunder have weighted field goals for the purpose of counting assists (since 3 pt and 2 pt both count as one assist) of 46.8% and 46.6% respectively. Rockets shoot slightly better. Rockets shoot way more lower percentage 3 point shot, while OKC shoots higher percentage 2 point shots.

By this calculation, that extra 0.7 potential assist should only result in 0.0015 assist if we account for the difference in team shooting skills, far less than the 2 extra assists that Harden is generating. This is therefore perhaps some evidence that Harden's passes are higher quality (assuming that there are no errors in my logic here).

Here are simple R code (basically used it as a calculator). Stats from link below

Code: Select all

# Thunder
#  Attempts, 3 pt followed by 2 pt
y = c(25.5, 63.0)-c(5.3, 18.4)
# Makes
y1 = c(8.8, 31.7)-c(1.8, 8.5)

# Thunder weighted field goal
sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y))

# Rockets
# Attempts
x = c(36.6, 48.5)-c(8.4, 10.5)
# Makes
x1 = c(13.8, 25.8)- c(3.1, 5.5)

# Rockets weighted field goal
sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))

# Difference in field goal
d = (sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))-sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y)))

# Difference due to potential assists
0.7*d

# Stats
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/okc/cat/shootingEfficiency
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/hou/cat/shootingEfficiency


[bondom34]

Yes, you could make that claim, but it is not MDA's system that has increased Harden's assist number. It is MDA's decision to move Harden to PG. Harden has just moved to playing PG full time now. Additionally, assists are also not 'free' unlike uncontested rebounds.

You don't get 'free' assists in the NBA by just playing PG. You sure do get 'free' rebounds when the other 9 players all run back to the other side of the court to play offense/defense.

You could run Thunder's rebounding scheme with any PG. You can't play any SG as your full time PG. Hell, why aren't all the other full time PG's in the league averaging 12 assists a game? There sure are a lot of high usage ball bounding point guards in the league.

You realize he's done this the last 3 years right? He's no more a PG now than ever.

And you do tend to get more "free" assists if you've got shooters and have the ball more. Harden has more, and more.

http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


Averaging under 1 potential assist/game more with .7 mpg more possession.
http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?sort=POTENTIAL_AST&dir=1

Is there really a difference in the let Westbrook do everything and let Harden do everything systems?

No but saying it benefits one and not the other is wrong.

What are you trying to argue here? Westbrook is as good as Harden at passing, but yields less assists because his team is worse at shooting?

Potential assist does not adjust for the quality of passes. Not all passes are equal. Your argument only works when you believe that Harden and Westbrook produce the same quality of passes. I'm not saying they do or don't; we simply don't have any readily available stats to quantity this. I doubt you will try to argue that all passes are of the same quality.

Here is some simply charismatic that suggest that Harden's passes are better.

And regarding your shots argument. Rockets take 66.2 shots without Harden. Thunders take 64.8 shots without Westbrook. With Harden and Westbrook removed, Rockets and Thunder have weighted field goals for the purpose of counting assists (since 3 pt and 2 pt both count as one assist) of 46.8% and 46.6% respectively. Rockets shoot slightly better. Rockets shoot way more lower percentage 3 point shot, while OKC shoots higher percentage 2 point shots.

By this calculation, that extra 0.7 potential assist should only result in 0.0015 assist if we account for the difference in team shooting skills, far less than the 2 extra assists that Harden is generating. This is therefore perhaps some evidence that Harden's passes are higher quality (assuming that there are no errors in my logic here).

Here are simple R code (basically used it as a calculator). Stats from link below

Code: Select all

# Thunder
#  Attempts, 3 pt followed by 2 pt
y = c(25.5, 63.0)-c(5.3, 18.4)
# Makes
y1 = c(8.8, 31.7)-c(1.8, 8.5)

# Thunder weighted field goal
sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y))

# Rockets
# Attempts
x = c(36.6, 48.5)-c(8.4, 10.5)
# Makes
x1 = c(13.8, 25.8)- c(3.1, 5.5)

# Rockets weighted field goal
sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))

# Difference in field goal
d = (sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))-sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y)))

# Difference due to potential assists
0.7*d

# Stats
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/okc/cat/shootingEfficiency
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/hou/cat/shootingEfficiency


I don't know what that code is showing, but Harden has better offensive teammates. Westbrook possesses the ball less, so less assists would be expected. Claiming he pads stats has been proved false, and he's had a greater lift on his team's offense. So your starting argument was false. His "system" was built to rack up assists just like Westbrook's gets him more rebounds.

Also your reasoning doesn't make sense to me at all. Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on. To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.

[Clyde Frazier]

whoops wrong thread

[CptCrunch]

You realize he's done this the last 3 years right? He's no more a PG now than ever.

And you do tend to get more "free" assists if you've got shooters and have the ball more. Harden has more, and more.

http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1


Averaging under 1 potential assist/game more with .7 mpg more possession.
http://stats.nba.com/players/passing/#!?sort=POTENTIAL_AST&dir=1


No but saying it benefits one and not the other is wrong.

What are you trying to argue here? Westbrook is as good as Harden at passing, but yields less assists because his team is worse at shooting?

Potential assist does not adjust for the quality of passes. Not all passes are equal. Your argument only works when you believe that Harden and Westbrook produce the same quality of passes. I'm not saying they do or don't; we simply don't have any readily available stats to quantity this. I doubt you will try to argue that all passes are of the same quality.

Here is some simply charismatic that suggest that Harden's passes are better.

And regarding your shots argument. Rockets take 66.2 shots without Harden. Thunders take 64.8 shots without Westbrook. With Harden and Westbrook removed, Rockets and Thunder have weighted field goals for the purpose of counting assists (since 3 pt and 2 pt both count as one assist) of 46.8% and 46.6% respectively. Rockets shoot slightly better. Rockets shoot way more lower percentage 3 point shot, while OKC shoots higher percentage 2 point shots.

By this calculation, that extra 0.7 potential assist should only result in 0.0015 assist if we account for the difference in team shooting skills, far less than the 2 extra assists that Harden is generating. This is therefore perhaps some evidence that Harden's passes are higher quality (assuming that there are no errors in my logic here).

Here are simple R code (basically used it as a calculator). Stats from link below

Code: Select all

# Thunder
#  Attempts, 3 pt followed by 2 pt
y = c(25.5, 63.0)-c(5.3, 18.4)
# Makes
y1 = c(8.8, 31.7)-c(1.8, 8.5)

# Thunder weighted field goal
sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y))

# Rockets
# Attempts
x = c(36.6, 48.5)-c(8.4, 10.5)
# Makes
x1 = c(13.8, 25.8)- c(3.1, 5.5)

# Rockets weighted field goal
sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))

# Difference in field goal
d = (sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))-sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y)))

# Difference due to potential assists
0.7*d

# Stats
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/okc/cat/shootingEfficiency
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/hou/cat/shootingEfficiency


I don't know what that code is showing, but Harden has better offensive teammates. Westbrook possesses the ball less, so less assists would be expected. Claiming he pads stats has been proved false, and he's had a greater lift on his team's offense. So your starting argument was false. His "system" was built to rack up assists just like Westbrook's gets him more rebounds.

Also your reasoning doesn't make sense to me at all. Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on. To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.

> To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.
Better in terms producing more points more efficiently. But in terms of weighted shooting percentage, when 2 pt shots are worth as much as 3, Westbrook's teammates only shoot 0.2% less.

> Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on.
This is already taken into account by the number of shots.

You brought in the potential assist argument. The math was easily understood demonstration that the Harden's better shooting teammates only shoot 0.2% better from the field, adjusted for each team's 2 pt and 3 pt shots.

[bondom34]

What are you trying to argue here? Westbrook is as good as Harden at passing, but yields less assists because his team is worse at shooting?

Potential assist does not adjust for the quality of passes. Not all passes are equal. Your argument only works when you believe that Harden and Westbrook produce the same quality of passes. I'm not saying they do or don't; we simply don't have any readily available stats to quantity this. I doubt you will try to argue that all passes are of the same quality.

Here is some simply charismatic that suggest that Harden's passes are better.

And regarding your shots argument. Rockets take 66.2 shots without Harden. Thunders take 64.8 shots without Westbrook. With Harden and Westbrook removed, Rockets and Thunder have weighted field goals for the purpose of counting assists (since 3 pt and 2 pt both count as one assist) of 46.8% and 46.6% respectively. Rockets shoot slightly better. Rockets shoot way more lower percentage 3 point shot, while OKC shoots higher percentage 2 point shots.

By this calculation, that extra 0.7 potential assist should only result in 0.0015 assist if we account for the difference in team shooting skills, far less than the 2 extra assists that Harden is generating. This is therefore perhaps some evidence that Harden's passes are higher quality (assuming that there are no errors in my logic here).

Here are simple R code (basically used it as a calculator). Stats from link below

Code: Select all

# Thunder
#  Attempts, 3 pt followed by 2 pt
y = c(25.5, 63.0)-c(5.3, 18.4)
# Makes
y1 = c(8.8, 31.7)-c(1.8, 8.5)

# Thunder weighted field goal
sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y))

# Rockets
# Attempts
x = c(36.6, 48.5)-c(8.4, 10.5)
# Makes
x1 = c(13.8, 25.8)- c(3.1, 5.5)

# Rockets weighted field goal
sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))

# Difference in field goal
d = (sum(x/sum(x)*(x1/x))-sum(y/sum(y)*(y1/y)))

# Difference due to potential assists
0.7*d

# Stats
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/okc/cat/shootingEfficiency
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/hou/cat/shootingEfficiency


I don't know what that code is showing, but Harden has better offensive teammates. Westbrook possesses the ball less, so less assists would be expected. Claiming he pads stats has been proved false, and he's had a greater lift on his team's offense. So your starting argument was false. His "system" was built to rack up assists just like Westbrook's gets him more rebounds.

Also your reasoning doesn't make sense to me at all. Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on. To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.

> To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.
Better in terms producing more points more efficiently. But in terms of weighted shooting percentage, when 2 pt shots are worth as much as 3, Westbrook's teammates only shoot 0.2% less.

> Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on.
This is already taken into account by the number of shots.

You brought in the potential assist argument. The math was easily understood demonstration that the Harden's better shooting teammates only shoot 0.2% better from the field, adjusted for each team's 2 pt and 3 pt shots.

Assists only count as 1 assist whether its a 2 or 3.

And Harden possessing the ball more doesn't count for anything toward shots. He has the ball in his hands longer.

[CptCrunch]

I don't know what that code is showing, but Harden has better offensive teammates. Westbrook possesses the ball less, so less assists would be expected. Claiming he pads stats has been proved false, and he's had a greater lift on his team's offense. So your starting argument was false. His "system" was built to rack up assists just like Westbrook's gets him more rebounds.

Also your reasoning doesn't make sense to me at all. Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on. To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.

> To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.
Better in terms producing more points more efficiently. But in terms of weighted shooting percentage, when 2 pt shots are worth as much as 3, Westbrook's teammates only shoot 0.2% less.

> Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on.
This is already taken into account by the number of shots.

You brought in the potential assist argument. The math was easily understood demonstration that the Harden's better shooting teammates only shoot 0.2% better from the field, adjusted for each team's 2 pt and 3 pt shots.

Assists only count as 1 assist whether its a 2 or 3.

And Harden possessing the ball more doesn't count for anything toward shots. He has the ball in his hands longer.

Those two points are already mentioned in my earlier post with the calculations.

[bondom34]

> To add to that Harden has teammates who are much better shooters than Westbrook. So you'd expect him to have more actual assists due to that and more potential ones due to time of possession.
Better in terms producing more points more efficiently. But in terms of weighted shooting percentage, when 2 pt shots are worth as much as 3, Westbrook's teammates only shoot 0.2% less.

> Harden possesses the ball about 5 percent more time per game than Westbrook. That would add about an extra full potential assist on.
This is already taken into account by the number of shots.

You brought in the potential assist argument. The math was easily understood demonstration that the Harden's better shooting teammates only shoot 0.2% better from the field, adjusted for each team's 2 pt and 3 pt shots.

Assists only count as 1 assist whether its a 2 or 3.

And Harden possessing the ball more doesn't count for anything toward shots. He has the ball in his hands longer.

Those two points are already mentioned in my earlier post with the calculations.

You just said Harden's teammates shoot .2 percent better when adjusted. You don't need to adjust. His teammates are better shooters. The entire point of "potential assists" is measuring if all shots were made. They're equivalent in potential assists.

Roberson, Adams, Sabonis, Kanter vs. Gordon, Ariza, Anderson is not even close shooting wise.

And again, this fails entirely to note that Westbrook makes more a difference in improving his team's offense when he's on court. So his actual impact is greater on offense. That's the opposite of your claims.

[bondom34]

2 players with equal potential assists.

1 has a greater lift on his team's offense.

[amcoolio]

If he actually averages a triple double, then just making the playoffs works in my eyes. His only competition seems to be if Davis wills the Pelicans into the playoffs with his current stats and plays at least 78 games. Lebron and Curry will rest and defer for the playoffs, Durant won't put up good enough stats, and voters will realize Harden is a 1 way player.

[PaulieWal]

Westbrook is too inefficient to deserve MVP over Durant. Statistically it's not a comparison at all and Westbrook is basically on a mediocre high 40 to low 50 win team, whereas Durant is the best player on a 68-74 win team and the best player in the league statistically.

1. Durant



2. Westbrook/Harden/LeBron/etc

At this point LeBron is still the best player in the league unless otherwise proven and he's clearly way more valuable to the Cavs than KD is to the Warriors. Take LeBron off the Cavs and they might make the playoffs as a 6-8 seed. Take KD off the Warriors and the Warriors are still at the very least a WCF contender if not a title contender.

That's now how MVP works, however. Generally 9/10 times it is the player who had the best individual season and was on the best team.

Durant is easily having the best season so far and will predictably be on the best team.

It's not a "if you took this player off, what would their record be" award.

Westbrook, Harden and LeBron are the only players who even have an argument over Durant for MVP, but it's a very weak one.

Westbrook is inefficient and turnover prone despite his triple double average and leads a pretty mediocre team. Harden is great no doubt but inferior defensively and also leading a decent but not title level team. LeBron's stats are worse than Durant's.

Currently Durant is easily the MVP. Mentioning junk (relative to Durant) like Derozan, Lillard, Giannis and Paul is simply an emotional reaction to fan upset with his team's former player leaving that isn't taken very seriously...

No, the rule of thumb is the best player on a very good team, not necessarily the best team. If Cavs are in the high 50s/low 60s for wins LeBron is going to be a damn strong contender and definitely a better contender than KD for the award.

Not sure what the other players listed have anything to do with my response. BTW, I have noticed you always go to these extremes for players you like such as Curry last year and then KD this year. Let the season play out and then see what's what. KD is playing well but it's gonna be really hard for him to win the award when Curry is still arguably the better player and has better impact stats.