FGA Restricted All-Time Fantasy Draft Playoffs ECR1: (1) LA Bird vs (8) Super Dario

[ardee]

2005 Kevin Garnett
1968 Jerry West
2010 Dwight Howard
2017 Jimmy Butler
2003 Doug Christie
1999 Robert Horry
2003 Aryvdas Sabonis
1997 Kevin Johnson

2016 Stephen Curry
2010 Dwyane Wade
1997 Grant Hill
1995 Dikembe Mutombo
1995 Detlef Schrempf
2002 PJ Brown
1997 Aaron McKie
1988 Tree Rollins

Contestants have until 4 PM EST on Sunday to submit their write-ups, that is exactly 48 hours. Then after that, hopefully judges can submit their votes in a further 48 hours.

[LA Bird]

Writeups coming soon but in the meantime, can we at least change the picture of Howard and Garnett into this:



The current picture of post prime Dwight and old man KG is about as accurate as using a picture of Toronto Hakeem.

[Clyde Frazier]

Writeups coming soon but in the meantime, can we at least change the picture of Howard and Garnett into this:

Spoiler:

The current picture of post prime Dwight and old man KG is about as accurate as using a picture of Toronto Hakeem.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Starting Lineup
C - Dikembe Mutombo ('94-'95) - 7.7 FGA - All-Star, DPOY
PF - PJ Brown ('01-'02) - 6.6 FGA
SF - Grant Hill ('96-'97) - 15.7 FGA - All-Star, 1st Team All-NBA
SG - Dwyane Wade ('09-'10) - 19.6 FGA - All-Star, 1st Team All-NBA, 2nd Team All-Defense
PG - Steph Curry ('15-'16) - 20.2 FGA - MVP

Bench
Detlef Schrempf ('94-'95) - 12.2 FGA - All-Star, 3rd Team All-NBA
Aaron McKie ('96-'97) - 4.4 FGA
Tree Rollins ('87-'88) - 3.4 FGA

89.8/90 FGA

Rotation
Mutombo (38) / Rollins (10)
Brown (28) / Schrempf (20)
Hill (38) / Schrempf (10)
Wade (38) / McKie (10)
Curry (38) / McKie (10)

Write-up
First things first: good luck LA Bird! You built a great team and I'm not thrilled about this 1st round match-up, but such is life.

I'll start with a break down of my team:
- Curry is the best off-ball point to ever play the game, which is why I chose 2 elite playmaking wings to complement his skill set. I don't see "ball dominance" or redundancy being an issue between Wade/Hill, especially knowing how seamlessly Wade settled into his role next to LeBron. I'm very confident in this three-headed dragon's ability to compound each other's strengths and facilitate consistent high-IQ/high-efficiency offense.
- Who better than 4x DPOY Dikembe Mutombo to anchor my defense and accommodate everyone's favorite phrase, "rim protection"? Needless to say, I'm thrilled to have Deke against a host of all-time great centers.
- Playing time between Shrempf/Brown will ultimately depend on match-up, with Detlef bringing the complete offensive package and Brown locking down opposing bigs. Even though Brown offers less in the scoring department, he still creates the space we need to thrive (shooting half his shots 10+ feet away from the basket.) Of course, he didn't shoot over 50% from beyond like Shrempf did during his chosen season
- McKie is the perfect 3&D combo guard to take on a variety of roles, known for making an impact with or without the basketball. Allen Iverson can attest to that.
- Tree Rollins sees the court for a meager 10 minutes, and will ultimately serve as a watered down version of Mutombo when he needs to rest. Not an offensive threat by any means, but undoubtedly a defensive force in the paint. That's all we need him to be.
- Please note that I did not cop out on chosen seasons. I could have saved serious FGAs by selecting Curry's 1st MVP season, but his performance last year was so groundbreaking that I couldn't justify taking anything else. Additionally, I went with Hill's clear-cut peak, Shrempf's clear-cut pick, Wade's 2nd best season and what could easily be considered Mutombo's peak. What you see is what you get.

Match-up specifics:
- Due to the presence of Garnett, PJ Brown will get the start (+ additional minutes) over Shrempf. Brown's combination of strength and mobility makes him the perfect guy for the job. He took on that challenge several occasions during his career (24 to be exact) and only once did KG put up 30+ points. If you check out their H2H, you will notice that even peak KG struggled to dominate against PJ the way he was accustomed to.
- Please note my opponent's chosen season for Jerry West was one of his most underwhelming. In fact, it was West's only season outside of his rookie campaign where he failed to make 1st Team All-NBA/either All-Defensive in the same year. Furthermore, KJ's chosen season (while impressive) failed to receive even All-Star recognition. Guarding any of my perimeter juggernauts will be a daunting task for 30 y/o KJ no matter how you shake it.
- All defensive assignments will coincide with position here. My biggest defensive "liability" if you want to call him that is Curry, and having Deke to protect the paint will put a huge damper on KJ's ability to penetrate (thus, his ability to exploit the matchup.) Honestly, Curry should hardly be considered a below average defender. He does an excellent job of playing the passing lanes when surrounded by formidable defenders.

Vote SuperDario, if you're so inclined

[LA Bird]

Starters
C: 2010 Dwight Howard: 18/13/3 on 63% TS
PF: 2005 Kevin Garnett: 22/14/6 on 57% TS
SF: 2017 Jimmy Butler: 24/6/6 on 59% TS
SG: 1968 Jerry West: 26/6/6 on 59% TS
PG: 1997 Kevin Johnson: 20/4/9 on 63% TS

Bench
C: 2003 Arvydas Sabonis: 6/4/2 on 55% TS
F: 1999 Robert Horry: 5/4/2 on 57% TS
G: 2003 Doug Christie: 9/4/5 on 59% TS

Rotation
C: Howard (38) / Garnett (6) / Sabonis (4)
PF: Garnett (32) / Horry (16)
SF: Butler (38) / Christie (10)
SG: West (28) / Christie (20)
PG: Johnson (38) / West (10)

Writeup
Prime Garnett and Howard can both score while Dario's bigs (Mutombo, PJ Brown, Rollins) are all strictly role players offensively. Jerry West, Butler and KJ all averaging 20+ points on career high TS% is still one of the best offensive backcourts in this game even if Dario's is little better. We have a balanced offense that can score both inside and outside while Dario doesn't have any interior options to go to if Curry's 3pt shot is not falling against our tough defense.

Both teams have multiple DPOY winners at center but we have a clear advantage in rest of the positions. The rim protection, PnR defense and rebounding with prime Howard and Garnett together is so absolutely disgusting that nobody is going to score on us even if they managed to get past some of the best perimeter defenders in Butler, West and Christie.

Dario's small ball lineups aren't ideal since neither Wade nor Hill can shoot from outside and Schrempf at the 4 doesn't provide anything close to the defensive impact that Draymond does (which is crucial to Warriors' small ball success). We have plenty of spacing around Howard for him to replicate his impact in Orlando and even KJ was a good outside shooter this season (3rd in the league in 3pt%). KG's combination of shooting, passing and defensive versatility makes him pretty much the perfect small ball big in modern basketball and he can anchor our defense when we go small with him at the 5.

Overall, we have the better defense from top to bottom and strong interior presences to complement our backcourt. Vote LA Bird!

Edit: Some rebuttal...

Please note my opponent's chosen season for Jerry West was one of his most underwhelming.

1968 Lakers had the most dominant offense of the 60s with West shooting career high percentages from the field and leading the league in TS%. He missed games in the regular season (Lakers plummeted from first place +8.1 SRS to -0.5 without him) but was healthy for the postseason and had one of his best playoff runs (31/5/6 on 60% TS). 1968 was not underwhelming and some of the top posters on this board (ElGee, Sideshowbob, Doc MJ) actually chose it as Jerry West's best season during the peak projects.

KJ's chosen season (while impressive) failed to receive even All-Star recognition.

He was snubbed (Avery Johnson got more votes...) and played incredible in the 2nd half of the season
Pre All Star: 17/3/9 on 58% TS
Post All Star: 23/4/10 on 68% TS
The better 3pt shooting combined with his usual slashing makes this arguably the best offensive season in his career.

Also, he wasn't a key focus in either of our writeups but 2017 Jimmy Butler seems to have had an underrated season.
Finishing top 5 in WS, VORP and RPM Wins is quite an achievement considering how many superstars there were this year.

[ElGee]

One thing these fantasy matchups make me think more deeply about is "coachability." Or how flexible a player is given the environment. Even when the coaches describe how they envision the team working together, I still am pausing and saying "OK, but that doesn't mean Antoine Walker will stay in the post."

I see why LA Bird is the 1-seed. I actually really like how his team fits together on offense and defense. Monster front line on the glass. Both bigs dangerous in PnR paired with a PnR-heavy PG in KJ. West excellent passing and shooting. I wonder about someone like Howard wanting too many post touches, but I also think Howard will be happy with dunks and rolls as long as he has like a 15/15 line. Another thing that intrigues me is the team's two best players -- KG and West -- are both super IQ, excellent passers and can function well off the ball. West did well with Archie Clark in 68, and I think will do well with KJ.

Dario's fit concerns me across the board. I imagine (and based off his write up) that Hill and Wade -- who play the exact same functional position -- will take turns on the ball. However that's a lot of redundancy given that neither guy is a good outside shooter, and in these elite leagues that's going to stunt an offense where the outlet valves are PJ Brown and Dikembe Mutombo. At least both are decent at moving without the ball and rebound well for their position.

Curry is the bright spot, and of course he'll be a tornado to deal with. In this matchup I agree that Schrempf will be giving up a lot on defense for spacing on offense. My instinct is to be matchup specific and say Wade or Hill will be able to create advantages against West, but then you look at that backline and you see two of the best team defenders of the millennium and I think that's a marginal edge.

Leaning Bird -- will edit vote back in after hearing other thoughts.

vote: LA Bird

[BasketballFan7]

Aren't the seeds randomized?

[ElGee]

I thought the seeds were a result of an ordering by the participants themselves.

[eminence]

I thought the seeds were a result of an ordering by the participants themselves.

I want to say matchups were determined that way in a closed ballot, but then seeds were randomized. Not sure though.

[BasketballFan7]

I thought the seeds were a result of an ordering by the participants themselves.

I want to say matchups were determined that way in a closed ballot, but then seeds were randomized. Not sure though.

I think that the top 4 and the bottom 4 were randomized, and then matched up.

[penbeast0]

Not sure either how the Curry/Wade/Hill tandem will work together. I do like Schrempf off the bench; sometimes you need someone to come in and make things happen. Christie isn't that guy, maybe Horry is. (Maybe Sabonis would be too but he's only playing 4 minutes so no, not on this team he isn't). I would guess Schrempf coming off the bench rather than starting, especially considering the number of shooters already on the floor is an advantage for Dario. Not sure it's enough to overcome the outside/inside game of LA Bird but willing to listen.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Not sure either how the Curry/Wade/Hill tandem will work together. I do like Schrempf off the bench; sometimes you need someone to come in and make things happen. Christie isn't that guy, maybe Horry is. (Maybe Sabonis would be too but he's only playing 4 minutes so no, not on this team he isn't). I would guess Schrempf coming off the bench rather than starting, especially considering the number of shooters already on the floor is an advantage for Dario. Not sure it's enough to overcome the outside/inside game of LA Bird but willing to listen.

Does that mean I get to make counter arguments for my team? Sorry, still adjusting to the transition from T&T drafts...

[ardee]

I thought the seeds were a result of an ordering by the participants themselves.

I want to say matchups were determined that way in a closed ballot, but then seeds were randomized. Not sure though.

I think that the top 4 and the bottom 4 were randomized, and then matched up.

Top 4 seeds are in order. Bottom 4 seeds were randomized.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

[penbeast0]

Not sure either how the Curry/Wade/Hill tandem will work together. I do like Schrempf off the bench; sometimes you need someone to come in and make things happen. Christie isn't that guy, maybe Horry is. (Maybe Sabonis would be too but he's only playing 4 minutes so no, not on this team he isn't). I would guess Schrempf coming off the bench rather than starting, especially considering the number of shooters already on the floor is an advantage for Dario. Not sure it's enough to overcome the outside/inside game of LA Bird but willing to listen.

Does that mean I get to make counter arguments for my team? Sorry, still adjusting to the transition from T&T drafts...

Sure, I wrote the questions because I'd like to know how your are thinking about it; I could be wrong. Long as you answer before Ardee cuts off discussion.

[GeorgeMarcus]

I don't have a ton of time to make a counter argument, but let me start by thanking the judges for thoughtful feedback.

The first issue I would like to address is spacing. Curry may be the only significant downtown threat in my SL, but 30 minutes of '95 Shrempf should not get overlooked here. His jaw-dropping 51% from deep coincided with the highest 3pt volume of his career, and his ability to play the 4 (which he did fairly regularly IRL) makes his range that much more valuable. Aaron Mckie, who shot 40% from 3 during the chosen season, is icing on the cake when you factor in Wade/Hill/Brown's proficiency from mid-range. Generally speaking, I feel that mid-range shooting is an underrated aspect of spacing the court, but I will leave that to the judges.

Second, while Hill/Wade ultimately play the same functional position, I'm a big proponent of the idea that teams can never have "too many play-makers." Especially with Steph at point. Both guys excel on and off the ball, and can feed off of each other's dynamism the way Wade/LeBron did in Miami (to a slightly lesser extent.) If it adds to my case at all,please note that they will only share the floor for 28 of their respective 38 minutes to ensure a primary facilitator at all times.

[penbeast0]

I know the inside game isn't the cool thing anymore but I still believe that a great inside and outside game will beat a great midrange and outside game. Got to vote for LA Bird then.

[Warspite]

I like both of these teams:

Darios 3 headed wing monster vs Birds 3 headed lockdown defense.

A classic offense vs defense matchup. I can see Hill being able to run the offense and getting Wade great looks. I'm not sure Wade/HIll will be that effective getting to the rim with Deke clogging the lane and 2 elite shot blockers guarding the rim. Sure Curry will get some looks but he will be guarded by the GOAT shot blocking guard who might be top 5 in steals all time as well.


My vote is for LA Bird: Defense wins championships. He has 3 DPOY players and he has a better inside scoring game when the jumpers stop falling. Its my belief that Darios teams will play great at home and win by 20pts but as the series gets later the fatigue factor kicks in and the adv moves to Birds team. Put Deke in foul trouble and flood gates can open.

I'm a bigger fan of LA Birds ability to get a bucket to stop a run or to lock down and a get a stop than I am of Darios ability to run a team out of the gym. Yeah Dario reminds me of Showtime Lakers but I think 1984 is the outcome in this kind of matchup with the bigger, stronger and fewer weaknesses team prevailing.

[drza]

LA Bird's team is probably the most versatile line-up I've seen in this tournament, as they seem like they could play dominant 2-way ball in pretty much any era with the ability to tailor their personnel to the match-up. One of the keys to this versatility is West, as he can play a more traditional shooting guard next to KJ or he can move over and run the point in an all-shooter line-up. The other one is KG, as he can be the perfect small ball center in addition to his usual power forward slot. Mix in that Butler and Christie are both excellent wing defenders that can knock down the trey (in addition to Butler being a potential offensive engine if called upon), and that Howard/Sabonis/Horry can match with KG to counter any line-up from peak Shaq to small-ball, and...I just don't see any weaknesses. Upside seems to be best defense and offense in the league.

Meanwhile, Dario's team has the redundancy and spacing issues that have been pointed out. Keep in mind, this tournament is comprised of All-Star teams, so surely if Dario's team were in real life they'd be a championship contender. His "problems" with redundancy and spacing are only such when compared to super teams. But since that's what he's facing, he has more difficulty. Also, I think his defense and versatility are relatively problematic as well. Deke is a monster in the middle, but he plays 90s/00s basketball. What happens when LA Bird runs a death line-up out there of West/Butler/Horry/Garnett (plus either KJ or Christie)? Deke now has to either leave the paint to follow Horry or KG, or the defense has to try some sort of zone that leaves him close to the rim. Both options look like a much weaker defense with not enough offense for Dario...I'm not sure they have the pieces to play more than one way.

All told, looks like LA Bird should take this one rather convincingly.

[Statlanta]

Bump