Greater Gravity: Shaq or Curry

[E-Balla]

Why would the Warriors trot out Zaza or McGee? We'd just go with the Death Lineup. Shaq would be completely and utterly irrelevant on that end--and that's if he's conditioned enough to keep up with the pace.

Guard Shaq with Draymond? After the 50th point maybe then they'll sub in Zaza.

Zaza would not be a better match up for Shaq. Draymond with his active hands and Dala/Durant/Klay swiping and digging down would be as good a match up for Shaq as you can hope.

Not man to man but Zaza wouldn't get murdered on the boards like Dray would. With Dray even when he stops Shaq he gives up the easy offensive rebound. Tristan Thompson is nothing compared to Shaq on the offensive boards and he killed Draymond 2 years in a row.

[E-Balla]

Yes, guard Shaq with Draymond or Durant. It's not like anyone else in the league can guard him anyways.

But we will make sure he's irrelevant on the other end, and we'll trade 3s for 2s all day.

There's a difference between not guarding someone well and being torched. And those 30% Draymond 3s aren't more efficient than Shaq vs a 6-7 defender. At all.

I'd like the see the big that Shaq doesn't torch. Like maybe a handful in the league's history?

The best option is making him irrelevant on the other end, and matching 3s for 2s. And it doesn't have to be Draymond taking the 3...

Shaq did average 38 against Deke but I'm not exaggerating when I say the situation you described leads to 45 ppg from the Big Diesel.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Why would the Warriors trot out Zaza or McGee? We'd just go with the Death Lineup. Shaq would be completely and utterly irrelevant on that end--and that's if he's conditioned enough to keep up with the pace.

Guard Shaq with Draymond? After the 50th point maybe then they'll sub in Zaza.

Yes, guard Shaq with Draymond or Durant. It's not like anyone else in the league can guard him anyways.

But we will make sure he's irrelevant on the other end, and we'll trade 3s for 2s all day.

How would Shaq be irrelevant on the other end? People act like LA didn't face teams like Sactown.

[clyde21]

There's a difference between not guarding someone well and being torched. And those 30% Draymond 3s aren't more efficient than Shaq vs a 6-7 defender. At all.

I'd like the see the big that Shaq doesn't torch. Like maybe a handful in the league's history?

The best option is making him irrelevant on the other end, and matching 3s for 2s. And it doesn't have to be Draymond taking the 3...

Shaq did average 38 against Deke but I'm not exaggerating when I say the situation you described leads to 45 ppg from the Big Diesel.

That's fine, we'll make him give up 46 on the other end. He's already poorly conditioned...imagine him having to guard the death lineup.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Teams are trapping Curry as soon as he crosses half court. He stretches the NBA court in completely unprecedented ways.

Shaq is incredible and was a singularity on a the court in his prime, but teams have to cover much more ground and get stretched much thinner when Curry is on the court.

Curry doesn't even get trapped that much. Other premier wings got trapped way more in the past, there's nothing unprecedented about the attention Curry gets at all. Dude's an amazing 3pt shooter but in no way does his gravity match up with Shaq's.

http://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba-au/news/nba-finals-2017-cavs-vs-warriors-game-1-stephen-curry-kevin-durant-shooting-transition/1c3ckst7iszl018jnekrqzia1n

You are so wrong lol

LOL, so one article praising Curry says I'm wrong? There are endless articles about Shaq's dominance. Again, Curry isn't evne the GOAT PG in gravity which is CP3. He's below elite wings like MJ, Kobe, Wade in gravity too.

Just appreciate what he's doing right now, no need to make him the best at everything. He's a volume shooting 3pt point gunner(arguably the GOAT), who isn't effective at getting to the FT line. Not even close to Shaq in gravity.

[clyde21]

Curry doesn't even get trapped that much. Other premier wings got trapped way more in the past, there's nothing unprecedented about the attention Curry gets at all. Dude's an amazing 3pt shooter but in no way does his gravity match up with Shaq's.

http://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba-au/news/nba-finals-2017-cavs-vs-warriors-game-1-stephen-curry-kevin-durant-shooting-transition/1c3ckst7iszl018jnekrqzia1n

You are so wrong lol

LOL, so one article praising Curry says I'm wrong? There are endless articles about Shaq's dominance. Again, Curry isn't evne the GOAT PG in gravity which is CP3. He's below elite wings like MJ, Kobe, Wade in gravity too.

Just appreciate what he's doing right now, no need to make him the best at everything. He's a volume shooting 3pt point gunner(arguably the GOAT), who isn't effective at getting to the FT line. Not even close to Shaq in gravity.

No, almost everything says you're wrong. Including the eyeball test and all of the impact and advanced metrics.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I'd like the see the big that Shaq doesn't torch. Like maybe a handful in the league's history?

The best option is making him irrelevant on the other end, and matching 3s for 2s. And it doesn't have to be Draymond taking the 3...

Shaq did average 38 against Deke but I'm not exaggerating when I say the situation you described leads to 45 ppg from the Big Diesel.

That's fine, we'll make him give up 46 on the other end. He's already poorly conditioned...imagine him having to guard the death lineup.

What death lineup? GS has literally no one that would even make Shaq work on defense. Draymond would play 20 mpg at best in deep foul trouble. KD on Shaq....lol.

If the 3peat Lakers played these Warriors, LA would have two players with greater gravity than Curry, and GS would be hardpressed to matchup at all. Dray on Shaq, this can't be reallife.

[E-Balla]

I'd like the see the big that Shaq doesn't torch. Like maybe a handful in the league's history?

The best option is making him irrelevant on the other end, and matching 3s for 2s. And it doesn't have to be Draymond taking the 3...

Shaq did average 38 against Deke but I'm not exaggerating when I say the situation you described leads to 45 ppg from the Big Diesel.

That's fine, we'll make him give up 46 on the other end. He's already poorly conditioned...imagine him having to guard the death lineup.

Yes Draymond "27% outside of the restricted area" Green is such a threat to punish Shaq.

Y'all act like he PNR wasn't ran heavily against Shaq when he was almost an old man giving no effort and he wasn't still a positive on D.

[clyde21]

Shaq did average 38 against Deke but I'm not exaggerating when I say the situation you described leads to 45 ppg from the Big Diesel.

That's fine, we'll make him give up 46 on the other end. He's already poorly conditioned...imagine him having to guard the death lineup.

What death lineup? GS has literally no one that would even make Shaq work on defense. Draymond would play 20 mpg at best in deep foul trouble. KD on Shaq....lol.

If the 3peat Lakers played these Warriors, LA would have two players with greater gravity than Curry, and GS would be hardpressed to matchup at all. Dray on Shaq, this can't be reallife.

Please let me know who Shaq is gonna guard against our death lineup, or how in the world he's going to handle our spacing, ball-movement and pace?

He'll be rendered completely irrelevant on that end. He wouldn't even know what to do half the time.

[An Unbiased Fan]

http://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba-au/news/nba-finals-2017-cavs-vs-warriors-game-1-stephen-curry-kevin-durant-shooting-transition/1c3ckst7iszl018jnekrqzia1n

You are so wrong lol

LOL, so one article praising Curry says I'm wrong? There are endless articles about Shaq's dominance. Again, Curry isn't evne the GOAT PG in gravity which is CP3. He's below elite wings like MJ, Kobe, Wade in gravity too.

Just appreciate what he's doing right now, no need to make him the best at everything. He's a volume shooting 3pt point gunner(arguably the GOAT), who isn't effective at getting to the FT line. Not even close to Shaq in gravity.

No, almost everything says you're wrong. Including the eyeball test and all of the impact and advanced metrics.

What eyeball test? Shaq is called the MDE. And what "advanced metric" are you using to measure gravity?

Watch on YouTube

[clyde21]

LOL, so one article praising Curry says I'm wrong? There are endless articles about Shaq's dominance. Again, Curry isn't evne the GOAT PG in gravity which is CP3. He's below elite wings like MJ, Kobe, Wade in gravity too.

Just appreciate what he's doing right now, no need to make him the best at everything. He's a volume shooting 3pt point gunner(arguably the GOAT), who isn't effective at getting to the FT line. Not even close to Shaq in gravity.

No, almost everything says you're wrong. Including the eyeball test and all of the impact and advanced metrics.

What eyeball test? Shaq is called the MDE. And what "advanced metric" are you using to measure gravity?

Watch on YouTube

[An Unbiased Fan]

That's fine, we'll make him give up 46 on the other end. He's already poorly conditioned...imagine him having to guard the death lineup.

What death lineup? GS has literally no one that would even make Shaq work on defense. Draymond would play 20 mpg at best in deep foul trouble. KD on Shaq....lol.

If the 3peat Lakers played these Warriors, LA would have two players with greater gravity than Curry, and GS would be hardpressed to matchup at all. Dray on Shaq, this can't be reallife.

Please let me know who Shaq is gonna guard against our death lineup, or how in the world he's going to handle our spacing, ball-movement and pace?

He'll be rendered completely irrelevant on that end. He wouldn't even know what to do half the time.

What? Shaq would shut down any drives from GS's non physical players, and absolutely clean up the glass to the tune of 20-25 rebounds. Who the hell on GS is going to box him out, or grab a miss?

On offense GS's whole frontline would be in foul trouble. This was the norm against Shaq. GS would be in the team penalty within minutes and Shaq's team would shoot a ridiculous amount as a result. Even when his team missed, he would have a great chance of grabbing the miss over GS's neutered frontline. Yeh sure, Curry would hit some threes and drop around 30 points, but you're fooling yourself if you think he has anywhere near close Shaq's gravity.

[An Unbiased Fan]

No, almost everything says you're wrong. Including the eyeball test and all of the impact and advanced metrics.

What eyeball test? Shaq is called the MDE. And what "advanced metric" are you using to measure gravity?

Watch on YouTube

What are Shaq's numbers,a nd what in the world does this have to do with gravity?

By this metric I'm pretty sure Magic would have the GOAt gravity is stats went back that far, but hey...lets use 16-17 numbers to make the grand statement that Curry's gravity > Shaq's.

[East Bay Sports]

I'm wondering what FTs have to do with gravity. You've cited them multiple times but I've never heard them discussed when talking about gravity. Maybe gravity isn't what I thought it was but I thought it was how much defensive attention you draw for yourself away from teammates. Curry does this at a crazy rate, a much more ridiculous rate than you give him credit for.

[KobesScarf]

If by "greater gravity" you mean amount, it's necessarily Shaq. He was in the lane, and thus it was more possible to collapse in on him. Curry, being a perimeter play, had less literal gravity.

If by "greater gravity," you mean greatest efficacy from their gravity, it's necessarily Curry. Defenses collapse on him at the outside, freeing passing lanes, perimeter shooters, cuts to the basket, and the lane itself. Shaq's gravity, due to its location, is not as useful.

I prefer the latter definition, especially since offense is perimeter dominated by far. Therefore, its Curry by a long shot, and I would also argue Dirk's gravity over Shaq's, due to that same line of thinking.

On another note, why do we never talk about defensive anti-gravity? There are players who deny the ball or protect the rim so well that players either cannot get the ball near them or avoid that area. Which defenders would have the greatest anti-gravity?

The one thing you neglected in this post is their actual passing ability, and Shaq is a better passer at his position than Curry IMO

[KobesScarf]

That's fine, we'll make him give up 46 on the other end. He's already poorly conditioned...imagine him having to guard the death lineup.

What death lineup? GS has literally no one that would even make Shaq work on defense. Draymond would play 20 mpg at best in deep foul trouble. KD on Shaq....lol.

If the 3peat Lakers played these Warriors, LA would have two players with greater gravity than Curry, and GS would be hardpressed to matchup at all. Dray on Shaq, this can't be reallife.

Please let me know who Shaq is gonna guard against our death lineup, or how in the world he's going to handle our spacing, ball-movement and pace?

He'll be rendered completely irrelevant on that end. He wouldn't even know what to do half the time.

Yeah because teams NEVER tried to space the floor against Shaq . The concept that Shaq especially if we're talking about while he was coached by Phil would be confused and unprepared just because a bad shooter(Green) was setting picks or spotting up on the perimeter is beyond ludicrous and really shows a lack of knowledge.

[An Unbiased Fan]

I'm wondering what FTs have to do with gravity. You've cited them multiple times but I've never heard them discussed when talking about gravity. Maybe gravity isn't what I thought it was but I thought it was how much defensive attention you draw for yourself away from teammates. Curry does this at a crazy rate, a much more ridiculous rate than you give him credit for.

Shows the intensity of the defense pressure drawn. Shaq is drawing 2 or 3 defenders drape around him, leaving multiple teammates wide open. Elite wings are drawing attention on the perimeter and when they attack the basket, with the ability to kick out. Curry's doen't drawn near the same defensive intensity.

Career FTr
Shaq - 57.8%
Curry - 22.9%

CP3 - 31.5% (great for a PG)
Lebron - 42.1%
Durant - 42.2%

This of course is just one element of the gravity equation. But the notion that the attention Curry gets is unprecedented, lol....or even at the level of many other all-time greats is a bit much. Makes me wonder how long some have been watching the game. Curry is a high volume 3pt shooter, with a nice AST%(though much lower than the GOAT PGs, so not even sure how much "draw defender, pass out" FGs he's even producing directly)

[THKNKG]

If by "greater gravity" you mean amount, it's necessarily Shaq. He was in the lane, and thus it was more possible to collapse in on him. Curry, being a perimeter play, had less literal gravity.

If by "greater gravity," you mean greatest efficacy from their gravity, it's necessarily Curry. Defenses collapse on him at the outside, freeing passing lanes, perimeter shooters, cuts to the basket, and the lane itself. Shaq's gravity, due to its location, is not as useful.

I prefer the latter definition, especially since offense is perimeter dominated by far. Therefore, its Curry by a long shot, and I would also argue Dirk's gravity over Shaq's, due to that same line of thinking.

On another note, why do we never talk about defensive anti-gravity? There are players who deny the ball or protect the rim so well that players either cannot get the ball near them or avoid that area. Which defenders would have the greatest anti-gravity?

The one thing you neglected in this post is their actual passing ability, and Shaq is a better passer at his position than Curry IMO

Well, I'd say unless the big's passing is the focal point of an offense like KG/Walton/Dray/Jokic, guard passing is more valuable.

Either way, passing is more of an after effect of gravity; I'm more interested in defining how much gravity they have intrinsically, not as much what they do with it (though I do think Steph utilizes it better).

[KobesScarf]

If by "greater gravity" you mean amount, it's necessarily Shaq. He was in the lane, and thus it was more possible to collapse in on him. Curry, being a perimeter play, had less literal gravity.

If by "greater gravity," you mean greatest efficacy from their gravity, it's necessarily Curry. Defenses collapse on him at the outside, freeing passing lanes, perimeter shooters, cuts to the basket, and the lane itself. Shaq's gravity, due to its location, is not as useful.

I prefer the latter definition, especially since offense is perimeter dominated by far. Therefore, its Curry by a long shot, and I would also argue Dirk's gravity over Shaq's, due to that same line of thinking.

On another note, why do we never talk about defensive anti-gravity? There are players who deny the ball or protect the rim so well that players either cannot get the ball near them or avoid that area. Which defenders would have the greatest anti-gravity?

The one thing you neglected in this post is their actual passing ability, and Shaq is a better passer at his position than Curry IMO

Well, I'd say unless the big's passing is the focal point of an offense like KG/Walton/Dray/Jokic, guard passing is more valuable.

Either way, passing is more of an after effect of gravity; I'm more interested in defining how much gravity they have intrinsically, not as much what they do with it (though I do think Steph utilizes it better).

But you 2nd definition already crosses the line of the after effect

[THKNKG]

The one thing you neglected in this post is their actual passing ability, and Shaq is a better passer at his position than Curry IMO

Well, I'd say unless the big's passing is the focal point of an offense like KG/Walton/Dray/Jokic, guard passing is more valuable.

Either way, passing is more of an after effect of gravity; I'm more interested in defining how much gravity they have intrinsically, not as much what they do with it (though I do think Steph utilizes it better).

But you 2nd definition already crosses the line of the after effect

No it doesn't, but I can see how it would seem that way.

Let's say Steph completely lost all ability to pass, like just forgot. All he could do is shoot. Let's assume he plays exactly how he does, and defenses play him how they do now. Let's say the same about Shaq. If you were to take a snapshot of the offensive opportunities that came up for their teammates to create (whether out of a pass from them or cutting or whatever else), the gravity of Curry's simply being on the court produce more valuable effect than Shaq's does. If he was a mindless chucker with no vision, he wouldn't be a great player (or as great at least), but that wouldn't reduce the effectiveness of his gravity in the slightest.