Better Player Right Now: Giannis Antetokounmpo V Anthony Davis

mdonnelly1989 · Post #1 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:56 pm

Based on the last poll both of these guys were tied for the 8th and 9th slots.

#1. LBJ
#2. Curry
#3A. KD
#3B. Kawhi
5. Westbrook
6. Harden
7. CP3
8. ????
9. ????

mdonnelly1989 · Post #2 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:57 pm

Imo here I went AD slightly.

He's easily the best big man anchor in the league. And since this is on individual talent and not team success, AD for me.

Joao Saraiva · Post #3 » by **Joao Saraiva** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:01 pm

I think Anthony Davis is definitely in the Harden/Westbrook tier. Maybe even higher.

I like Giannis a lot, but don't see him there yet.

RCM88x · Post #4 » by **RCM88x** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:11 pm

Giannis, preforms far better in impact stats.

AD's argument is basically all box score driven and people remembering 2015.

Rapcity_11 · Post #5 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:21 pm

RCM88x wrote:Giannis, preforms far better in impact stats.

AD's argument is basically all box score driven and people remembering 2015.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ncwjn2_YXexIhwqDqluJq8ZrkQN8iQs1VX16Z8Wwy6k/pubhtml

Davis rates far better in RAPM.

Davis also is barely ahead in RPM +4.35 to +4.21.

Joey Wheeler · Post #6 » by **Joey Wheeler** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:43 pm

It's quite possible AD is already the second best player in the league, but we don't know it yet because of inherent winning bias. The man is a beast.

Giannis is great himself, but he's no AD.

Colbinii · Post #7 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:03 pm

RCM88x wrote:Giannis, preforms far better in impact stats.

AD's argument is basically all box score driven and people remembering 2015.

What impact stats are you talking about?

AD crushes Giannis in on/off, beats him in RPM and PI RAPM.

Post #8 » by **trex_8063** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:16 pm

Off the cuff, I think Davis by a hair, but I'm not going to vote in the poll (at least not unless I research my hunch a lot more in depth). But Davis giving 28/12 on good efficiency, and seems like he's starting to have the kind of defensive impact people have been expecting of him......idk, I feel like it's probably still him.

But Giannis has made a believer out of me; I'll be honest and say I was skeptical he was going to be anywhere near as good as many were saying, but now I see it as distinctly possible. If Giannis develops a solid (just respectable, not elite) shot outside of 15 ft......Lord have mercy on the rest of the league.

Harsh Lesson · Post #9 » by **Harsh Lesson** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:18 pm

Do have an explanation as to why Davis has had so little team success to this point in his career? Given that he'll be 25 next season, it's a bit strange that his individual dominance hans't yet begun translating into wins.

Illmatic12 · Post #10 » by **Illmatic12** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:18 pm

Davis. Simply because the fact that he can shoot and Giannis cannot currently is a key differentiator for me.

RCM88x · Post #11 » by **RCM88x** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:19 pm

Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:Giannis, preforms far better in impact stats.

AD's argument is basically all box score driven and people remembering 2015.

What impact stats are you talking about?

AD crushes Giannis in on/off, beats him in RPM and PI RAPM.

He wasn't higher in RPM for 80% of the season IIRC. I imagine Giannis fell a bit due to the playoffs as well.

Giannis is noticably better in BPM and VORP, as well as WS/48.

Post #12 » by **Goudelock** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:25 pm

Harsh Lesson wrote:Do have an explanation as to why Davis has had so little team success to this point in his career? Given that he'll be 25 next season, it's a bit strange that his individual dominance hans't yet begun translating into wins.

His teammates have been very underwhelming. I distinctly remember a possession against the Lakers where they actually triple-teamed him at the elbow. And throughout the game, he would be double-teamed whenever he got the ball, and his teammates couldn't take advantage of their opportunities.

ppedro123 · Post #13 » by **ppedro123** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:07 pm

Joey Wheeler wrote:It's quite possible AD is already the second best player in the league, but we don't know it yet because of inherent winning bias.

no it's not

Joey Wheeler · Post #14 » by **Joey Wheeler** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Harsh Lesson wrote:Do have an explanation as to why Davis has had so little team success to this point in his career? Given that he'll be 25 next season, it's a bit strange that his individual dominance hans't yet begun translating into wins.

Bigs are just less impactful on bad teams than perimeter players. If you replace Davis and Westbrook, the Pelicans would have made the playoffs and OKC would be in the lottery, but this doesn't mean Westbrook is a better player, just that in the context of a bad team he can make a bigger impact.

For a team like the Pelicans to be successful with their roster you need someone who can do everything and fill in all the gaps. AD obviously can't be the primary ballhandler or playmaker, or provide much outside shooting. I think great bigs are the ideal anchor for a championship team in most cases, but their impact on bad teams is limited, history shows that even all-time bigs only win when there's at least decent perimeter play around them. Kareem is seen by many as the GOAT, he missed the playoffs in his prime.

That's all there is to it. Pair AD with a quality PG and wing and success will follow, even more so now that Cousins is with him. Some decent role players and that team is a contender. There's absolutely no question regarding how dominant AD is versus any kind of opposition; he's basically the best player on court every time he plays GSW, he absolutely dominates them...

SlowPaced · Post #15 » by **SlowPaced** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:47 pm

Harsh Lesson wrote:Do have an explanation as to why Davis has had so little team success to this point in his career? Given that he'll be 25 next season, it's a bit strange that his individual dominance hans't yet begun translating into wins.

He did lead his team to the Playoffs in 2015 when he had a supporting cast that wasn't complete trash.

TheSheriff · Post #16 » by **TheSheriff** » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:42 pm

Harsh Lesson wrote:Do have an explanation as to why Davis has had so little team success to this point in his career? Given that he'll be 25 next season, it's a bit strange that his individual dominance hans't yet begun translating into wins.

Put him on the Celtics and they challenge Cleveland in the East. He just doesn't have a supporting cast.

Post #17 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:08 am

Colbinii wrote:
RCM88x wrote:Giannis, preforms far better in impact stats.

AD's argument is basically all box score driven and people remembering 2015.

What impact stats are you talking about?

AD crushes Giannis in on/off, beats him in RPM and PI RAPM.

This. Plus Davis' third season is still better than anything Giannis has done. Lot of things swirling in NO at the moment.

Davis is the better scorer, rebounder and defender. Just a bigger imprint right now.

Hugely impressive jump from G though in the last year.

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oldschooled · Post #18 » by **oldschooled** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:05 am

Davis. Until Giannis fix that jump shot.

mdonnelly1989 · Post #19 » by **mdonnelly1989** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:49 am

oldschooled wrote:Davis. Until Giannis fix that jump shot.

When Giannis fixes that Jump shot don't you assume he will average 30 PPG in his sleep then?

BigRedWarrior · Post #20 » by **BigRedWarrior** » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:24 am

Health is a concern for Davis; the two are comparable (same tier for me), but I think I lean AD slightly here.

His offensive game, both face up and as a roll man is a bit more polished and reliable than Giannis.
As a PF who can also play competent minutes at the 5, AD's more valuable on the defensive end too (nothing against Giannis' versatility here).
So as a 1st option, AD's the better choice.

If we think of them as complementary pieces on a contender (lets say 2nd options), AD's game is more portable and easily integrated/impactful than Giannis. Giannis needs to develop a jumpshot and needs to improve outta the PnR as a ball handler for him to catch up to AD.