If LeBron and Chris Paul switched places

[Shanghai Kid]

Let's say LeBron and Chris Paul switched teams over the last 10 years.

How many finals and championships does Paul get to and win?

How many for Lebron?

[mischievous]

0 for Paul. He definitely gets 0 as far as i'm concerned. And I don't know why you assume he even wins any, Lebron is several tiers ahead prime wise.

[RCM88x]

Paul might have won in '11 but outside of that I doubt he gets any rings it finals appearances either.

LeBron would he a little harder to predict. I definitely think he'd win in one '15 and maybe either '12 or '13 as well.

[youngcrev]

I think he could of won 1 or 2 with Wade and Bosh. I think Chris Paul would of gotten more use out of Chris Bosh than Lebron did.

[The-Power]

Without roster adjustments according to their different positions?

[mischievous]

I think he could of won 1 or 2 with Wade and Bosh. I think Chris Paul would of gotten more use out of Chris Bosh than Lebron did.

He'd have virtually 0 shot from 2012-2014. Lebron played at a 2 way level in those championship runs that Paul simply can't at his size(especially defensively). Also people for some reason forget that Bosh missed most of the eastern playoffs in 2012, so Cp3 isn't going to take a team of slightly past prime Wade and some so-so role players past the Celtics.

[Statlanta]

07 Neither make the Finals
08 Neither, could lean LeBron making Finals
09 Neither
10 Neither
11 Neither
12 LeBron wins
13 LeBron wins
14 Neither, could lean Paul making the Finals
15 Neither
16 Neither, could lean Paul making the Finals
17 Neither, could lean Paul making the Finals

[youngcrev]

I think he could of won 1 or 2 with Wade and Bosh. I think Chris Paul would of gotten more use out of Chris Bosh than Lebron did.

He'd have virtually 0 shot from 2012-2014. Lebron played at a 2 way level in those championship runs that Paul simply can't at his size(especially defensively). Also people for some reason forget that Bosh missed most of the eastern playoffs in 2012, so Cp3 isn't going to take a team of slightly past prime Wade and some so-so role players past the Celtics.

Chris Paul wouldn't need to play at the same level as Lebron for them to win a title, and I disagree that they aren't getting past those Celtic squads. CP3 is no Lebron, but him Wade and Bosh would still be far and away the best trio in the league, and the fit would likely be better.

[dhsilv2]

I think he could of won 1 or 2 with Wade and Bosh. I think Chris Paul would of gotten more use out of Chris Bosh than Lebron did.

This is dead on. Bosh would have been much better playing along with Paul than with lebron. Clearly Paul doesn't fit with the cavs and Irving so that's a weird mix. You can't just move players taht easily.

[dhsilv2]

0 for Paul. He definitely gets 0 as far as i'm concerned. And I don't know why you assume he even wins any, Lebron is several tiers ahead prime wise.

08 Paul was truly special, back when he had two working knees. Same with 09 Paul. Sadly neither player had enough those years.

[youngcrev]

Paul might have won in '11 but outside of that I doubt he gets any rings it finals appearances either.

LeBron would he a little harder to predict. I definitely think he'd win in one '15 and maybe either '12 or '13 as well.

What makes you think he'd definitely get by the Warriors in '15? Seems like the fit with that Clippers roster would be a little wonky for Lebron. Which is why these "switch this guy with this guy" things don't work so well, particularly when the players don't play the same position.

[RCM88x]

Paul might have won in '11 but outside of that I doubt he gets any rings it finals appearances either.

LeBron would he a little harder to predict. I definitely think he'd win in one '15 and maybe either '12 or '13 as well.

What makes you think he'd definitely get by the Warriors in '15? Seems like the fit with that Clippers roster would be a little wonky for Lebron. Which is why these "switch this guy with this guy" things don't work so well, particularly when the players don't play the same position.

Well he almost got past the Warriors with a rotation of Delly/Smith/Shumpert/James Jones/Thompson/Mozgov

I imagine he'd be okay with a rotation of Rivers/Crawford/Redick/Barnes/Blake/Hawes/DeAndre/Davis

That's pretty similar in terms of construction but just better at every position and guys who are actually used to playing big minutes.

[Fundamentals21]

Hmm.

So I think the real title winning scenario is for Lebron in Clipper days '12-'15

2012 - There's an outside chance LeBron can make the finals - and if he does, they win it all.
2013 - Damn, tough. TD and the Spurs team was very strong. I don't see it happening this year with Griffin's play and overall supporting cast. Don't like it as much.
2014 - No chance.
2015 - This should be LeBron's year. Everything is well put together. Griffin and Jordan are both on a tear. Redick is deadly. Even if his jumper is shot it's fine. I can see them toughing it out with the Warriors and winning the championship.
2016/2017 - No chance.

Chris Paul doesn't have the durability to carry these Cavs teams to title, so he doesn't win any. I'll give LeBron 2 championships.

[mischievous]

I think he could of won 1 or 2 with Wade and Bosh. I think Chris Paul would of gotten more use out of Chris Bosh than Lebron did.

He'd have virtually 0 shot from 2012-2014. Lebron played at a 2 way level in those championship runs that Paul simply can't at his size(especially defensively). Also people for some reason forget that Bosh missed most of the eastern playoffs in 2012, so Cp3 isn't going to take a team of slightly past prime Wade and some so-so role players past the Celtics.

Chris Paul wouldn't need to play at the same level as Lebron for them to win a title, and I disagree that they aren't getting past those Celtic squads. CP3 is no Lebron, but him Wade and Bosh would still be far and away the best trio in the league, and the fit would likely be better.

Actually yeah he would need to. Anyone who followed the Heat those years knew that Lebron basically had to be their best at everything for the heat to have a chance, leading rebounder, scorer, assist guy, defender etc. They don't need a pass first guy to help get people involved, Lebron already did a good job at that while being far better than Paul at anything else.

Paul doesn't take them past Indi in 2013 either. They still get abused up front and Paul isn't changing the fact that both Wade and Bosh were stinking up the place almost all playoffs.

Paul is an all time great point guard, but i think this is a illegitimate discussion.

[mischievous]

I think he could of won 1 or 2 with Wade and Bosh. I think Chris Paul would of gotten more use out of Chris Bosh than Lebron did.

This is dead on. Bosh would have been much better playing along with Paul than with lebron. Clearly Paul doesn't fit with the cavs and Irving so that's a weird mix. You can't just move players taht easily.

It's possible that Bosh gets a little better, but it doesn't move the needle that much on offense, and doesn't change the fact that Bosh is a soft offensive player, and was soft at defending centers like Hibert and Duncan.

People are way underestimating how much they lose defensively with Paul instead of James, and defense was a big part of their success.

[youngcrev]

He'd have virtually 0 shot from 2012-2014. Lebron played at a 2 way level in those championship runs that Paul simply can't at his size(especially defensively). Also people for some reason forget that Bosh missed most of the eastern playoffs in 2012, so Cp3 isn't going to take a team of slightly past prime Wade and some so-so role players past the Celtics.

Chris Paul wouldn't need to play at the same level as Lebron for them to win a title, and I disagree that they aren't getting past those Celtic squads. CP3 is no Lebron, but him Wade and Bosh would still be far and away the best trio in the league, and the fit would likely be better.

Actually yeah he would need to. Anyone who followed the Heat those years knew that Lebron basically had to be their best at everything for the heat to have a chance, leading rebounder, scorer, assist guy, defender etc. They don't need a pass first guy to help get people involved, Lebron already did a good job at that while being far better than Paul at anything else.

Paul doesn't take them past Indi in 2013 either. They still get abused up front and Paul isn't changing the fact that both Wade and Bosh were stinking up the place almost all playoffs.

Paul is an all time great point guard, but i think this is a illegitimate discussion.

It seems like you are just looking through every series that went 7 games and automatically assuming they lose. Indiana isn't beating a Paul, Wade, Bosh squad. It's a completely different matchup.

Lebron was a far better player than Chris Paul, nobody is debating that. But Bosh and Wade had to scale back their contributions to make that thing work. Both were capable of carrying bigger a load. You'd have 3 top 10 players in the world in the early years of those squads, and likely a more seamless fit in terms of overlapping skills. Wade would be the unquestioned #1 option, with a Paul/Bosh pick and roll punishing teams.

It seems like you are just looking at this as "could Paul replace what Lebron did", and it's not that simple. You'd have a completely different team that played a different style of basketball.

[youngcrev]

Paul might have won in '11 but outside of that I doubt he gets any rings it finals appearances either.

LeBron would he a little harder to predict. I definitely think he'd win in one '15 and maybe either '12 or '13 as well.

What makes you think he'd definitely get by the Warriors in '15? Seems like the fit with that Clippers roster would be a little wonky for Lebron. Which is why these "switch this guy with this guy" things don't work so well, particularly when the players don't play the same position.

Well he almost got past the Warriors with a rotation of Delly/Smith/Shumpert/James Jones/Thompson/Mozgov

I imagine he'd be okay with a rotation of Rivers/Crawford/Redick/Barnes/Blake/Hawes/DeAndre/Davis

That's pretty similar in terms of construction but just better at every position and guys who are actually used to playing big minutes.

Did he though? Lebron was a FREAK in that series, and they gritted and grinded their way into making it a series, but the Warriors took control after Cleveland somehow managed to get up 2-1.

There's been tons of scenarios of superior teams getting behind in a series. It doesn't really mean all that much.

[dhsilv2]

I think he could of won 1 or 2 with Wade and Bosh. I think Chris Paul would of gotten more use out of Chris Bosh than Lebron did.

This is dead on. Bosh would have been much better playing along with Paul than with lebron. Clearly Paul doesn't fit with the cavs and Irving so that's a weird mix. You can't just move players taht easily.

It's possible that Bosh gets a little better, but it doesn't move the needle that much on offense, and doesn't change the fact that Bosh is a soft offensive player, and was soft at defending centers like Hibert and Duncan.

People are way underestimating how much they lose defensively with Paul instead of James, and defense was a big part of their success.

Paul is a MUCH better defender than anyone they had on those heat teams at point guard (like 5+ games difference here). Bosh was a 24 a game 52% shooter on the raptors (the key here is the field goal percentage). As for lebron's defense, he was great but you'd be playing guys like Haslem, Turiaf, battier etc more minutes. There's a net loss, but it's not as big as you're making it sound.

I also think Wade is better with paul. net net I think they win in 2011 or at least have a great shot at it. After that you start needing lebron's super human side a bit more and I'm not so sure. Then again maybe Wade had another couple of super productive years thanks to playing with a true point guard instead of lebron? I'm not sure, but the gap between Lebron and Paul is closer than I think people are giving him credit for.

I hate the idea of Lebron and Blake as a due...actually I hate any duo with blake...if you want to talk about soft.