Lebronnygoat wrote:tsherkin wrote:Lebronnygoat wrote: Again, MJ is mid 30’s on +5 efficiency compared to Embid.
But actually, not +5, but below average in both 97 and 98 (during the Finals, which was the comparison I was drawing).
And again Embid is scoring 23 points. I can’t believe you drew a line of comparison with Embid yesterday vs MJ in 1997.
Sure. Because no one would dare say something about MJ posting dog-ass shooting numbers, but he did.
Hell, you wanna dance though?
1993, ECFs versus the Knicks.
10/27 (37.0%)
12/32 (37.5%)
3/18 (16.7%)
18/30 (60%)
11/24 (45.8%)
8/24 (33.3%)
32.2 ppg, 40.0% FG, 52.2% TS (playoff league average was 53.0%.
It happens. It isn't an indictment of the player. Especially if there are mitigating circumstances. Like strong D, health concerns, teammate performance issues, etc.
Dude, last time I say this, 53% TS TODAY =/= 53% TS in 1997... rTS- -5 with 23 pts vs rTS- 0 with mid 30 pts. Ah yes, compare the 93 Knicks to the 2024 Miami team... an all time great defense. Sure MJ played subpar that series, but not sure how this even helps Embid, consistent track record of bad translation. MJ actually translates.
Apologies, but I feel compelled to comment on a couple of matters. As someone skeptical of Embiid, I believe it's necessary to articulate my reasons for criticism.
Firstly, it's worth noting that the Knicks allowed a TS% of 50.4. When considering relative true shooting against opponents, MJ actually had a positive TS% against the '93 Knicks (this is how Thinking Basketball calculates it). In 1993 and '94, New York boasted two of the greatest single-season defenses in history, ranking third and fourth in relative defensive efficiencies since 1970, and marking the best two-year defensive performance since the '60s. If a player were to have an underwhelming performance, than it is more understandable it happening against then those Knicks, than compared to some of the defenses Embiid has faced.
In that series, Jordan performed better in relative terms than the average Embiid postseason performance. His Game Score of 24.4 was the highest in the series, despite it being a downturn. He maintained a 3 to 1 assist-to-turnover ratio (7 assists to 2.3 turnovers), with Game Scores of 23.4 and 21.4 in the '97 and '98 NBA Finals, respectively.
Contrast this with Joel Embiid, whose career Playoff Game Score averages 17.8. On average, Embiid has been worse compared to what you might consider one of Jordan's worst series.
We can delve deeper into a specific series, perhaps '98 when Jordan was at his worst?
In the '98 Finals:
MJ averaged 35 points per 75 possessions (non-inflation adjusted for today's pace) on -0.9 rTS% when adjusted for opponents. He bore a massive offensive load of 54.4.
He maintained 2.4 assists per 75, with more assists than turnovers.
He finished with a BPM of 9.7.
Embiid has never had a fully healthy postseason series where he scored at the per-possession rate of MJ or handled the offensive load that Jordan did (which is probably fair, given his role anchoring a defense).
However, Embiid's career playoff BPM is 3.5, and only 3.1 if you consider his the seasons since 2021 when he has strongly been considered for MVP. Throughout his playoff career, Embiid has averaged more turnovers than assists and has struggled to punish defenses with quick decision-making.
Certainly, everyone has off games. However, we shouldn't ignore trends of certain players underperforming. If Embiid tends to be banged up during the postseason, it's understandable for people to hold it against him in their evaluation of him as a player, as it affects championship odds.
Criticism of Embiid isn't solely based on one game; it's about the continuation of his offensive struggles. You don't see the same level of critique directed at AD, who had a subpar playoff game, largely because he's been a more reliable postseason performer throughout his career. Embiid receiving criticism indicates that people are holding him accountable. Players who receive less criticism than they deserve after a subpar performance often have built up goodwill for consistently showing up.
