Giannis Antetokounmpo & Dame Lillard 3PT CHAMPION & ALL STAR MVP 23-24 NBA Thread

AEnigma · Post #41 » by **AEnigma** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:10 am

This makes me suspect the Pacers might not be well-suited for long series against good paint-scoring teams.

EmpireFalls · Post #42 » by **EmpireFalls** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:15 am

Giannis finally cut out the 3s and jumpers from his game and just embraced the rim running. Dame gives him that extra half beat of space and time to operate and he’s taking full advantage.

The Bucks are a flawed team especially defensively but man… I would not want to see them in the playoffs.

TroubleS0me · Post #43 » by **TroubleS0me** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:04 am

Read on Twitter

Djoker · Post #44 » by **Djoker** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 2:22 pm

EmpireFalls wrote:Giannis finally cut out the 3s and jumpers from his game and just embraced the rim running. Dame gives him that extra half beat of space and time to operate and he’s taking full advantage.

The Bucks are a flawed team especially defensively but man… I would not want to see them in the playoffs.

Yea... I don't understand how a team with Giannis + Lopez down low is not at least above average defensively regardless of other people on the roster. It looks like Giannis' effort on D is less this year.

Colbinii · Post #45 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 4:18 pm

Djoker wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:Giannis finally cut out the 3s and jumpers from his game and just embraced the rim running. Dame gives him that extra half beat of space and time to operate and he’s taking full advantage.

The Bucks are a flawed team especially defensively but man… I would not want to see them in the playoffs.

Yea... I don't understand how a team with Giannis + Lopez down low is not at least above average defensively regardless of other people on the roster. It looks like Giannis' effort on D is less this year.

There are a few reasons.

1) I think we are past the day in the NBA where you can just have two good defensive big man and have a Top Tier defense. That may have been true in the past, but there is so much defense required to be played on the perimeter and so many different actions in each offensive possession that having weak perimeter defenders eventually leads to an easy drive-and-kick or open shot on the perimeter.

2) Middleton/Beasley/Lillard are all negative to horrific defenders. Middleton's offensive game is still effective because he is a smooth criminal on that end with a strong mid-range game, but defensively he isn't what he was in 2021. Beasley and Lillard make for one of the worst defensive back-courts in the Modern Game.

3) It is because they have/had a new coach/system which was built entirely around the strength of Jrue Holiday, only for Jrue Holiday to be traded for a defensive sieve in Damian Lillard.

4) They have no depth. Payne/Beauchamp/Old Crowder is a weak bench, especially defensively. This isn't like the Timberwolves where they have all-defensive type talents on the bench like NAW and SlowMo.

Djoker · Post #46 » by **Djoker** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:23 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Djoker wrote:
EmpireFalls wrote:Giannis finally cut out the 3s and jumpers from his game and just embraced the rim running. Dame gives him that extra half beat of space and time to operate and he’s taking full advantage.

The Bucks are a flawed team especially defensively but man… I would not want to see them in the playoffs.

Yea... I don't understand how a team with Giannis + Lopez down low is not at least above average defensively regardless of other people on the roster. It looks like Giannis' effort on D is less this year.

There are a few reasons.

1) I think we are past the day in the NBA where you can just have two good defensive big man and have a Top Tier defense. That may have been true in the past, but there is so much defense required to be played on the perimeter and so many different actions in each offensive possession that having weak perimeter defenders eventually leads to an easy drive-and-kick or open shot on the perimeter.

2) Middleton/Beasley/Lillard are all negative to horrific defenders. Middleton's offensive game is still effective because he is a smooth criminal on that end with a strong mid-range game, but defensively he isn't what he was in 2021. Beasley and Lillard make for one of the worst defensive back-courts in the Modern Game.

3) It is because they have/had a new coach/system which was built entirely around the strength of Jrue Holiday, only for Jrue Holiday to be traded for a defensive sieve in Damian Lillard.

4) They have no depth. Payne/Beauchamp/Old Crowder is a weak bench, especially defensively. This isn't like the Timberwolves where they have all-defensive type talents on the bench like NAW and SlowMo.

Good post but I didn't say they should be top tier. What I said is I would expect them to be at least above average.

Watching games this season, Giannis is maybe at his best ever offensively but he's declined as a defender. Doesn't even seem to try that hard so it could get a bit better in the playoffs but it might not.

EmpireFalls · Post #47 » by **EmpireFalls** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:13 pm

Djoker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Yea... I don't understand how a team with Giannis + Lopez down low is not at least above average defensively regardless of other people on the roster. It looks like Giannis' effort on D is less this year.

There are a few reasons.

1) I think we are past the day in the NBA where you can just have two good defensive big man and have a Top Tier defense. That may have been true in the past, but there is so much defense required to be played on the perimeter and so many different actions in each offensive possession that having weak perimeter defenders eventually leads to an easy drive-and-kick or open shot on the perimeter.

2) Middleton/Beasley/Lillard are all negative to horrific defenders. Middleton's offensive game is still effective because he is a smooth criminal on that end with a strong mid-range game, but defensively he isn't what he was in 2021. Beasley and Lillard make for one of the worst defensive back-courts in the Modern Game.

3) It is because they have/had a new coach/system which was built entirely around the strength of Jrue Holiday, only for Jrue Holiday to be traded for a defensive sieve in Damian Lillard.

4) They have no depth. Payne/Beauchamp/Old Crowder is a weak bench, especially defensively. This isn't like the Timberwolves where they have all-defensive type talents on the bench like NAW and SlowMo.

Good post but I didn't say they should be top tier. What I said is I would expect them to be at least above average.

Watching games this season, Giannis is maybe at his best ever offensively but he's declined as a defender. Doesn't even seem to try that hard so it could get a bit better in the playoffs but it might not.

Yeah the other guy is right - their POA defense is up there with the worst on any contending team in modern NBA history, like 2012-13 Lakers level perimeter defending with Beasley Dame and an increasingly washed-looking Middleton.

Colbinii · Post #48 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:19 pm

Djoker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Yea... I don't understand how a team with Giannis + Lopez down low is not at least above average defensively regardless of other people on the roster. It looks like Giannis' effort on D is less this year.

There are a few reasons.

1) I think we are past the day in the NBA where you can just have two good defensive big man and have a Top Tier defense. That may have been true in the past, but there is so much defense required to be played on the perimeter and so many different actions in each offensive possession that having weak perimeter defenders eventually leads to an easy drive-and-kick or open shot on the perimeter.

2) Middleton/Beasley/Lillard are all negative to horrific defenders. Middleton's offensive game is still effective because he is a smooth criminal on that end with a strong mid-range game, but defensively he isn't what he was in 2021. Beasley and Lillard make for one of the worst defensive back-courts in the Modern Game.

3) It is because they have/had a new coach/system which was built entirely around the strength of Jrue Holiday, only for Jrue Holiday to be traded for a defensive sieve in Damian Lillard.

4) They have no depth. Payne/Beauchamp/Old Crowder is a weak bench, especially defensively. This isn't like the Timberwolves where they have all-defensive type talents on the bench like NAW and SlowMo.

Good post but I didn't say they should be top tier. What I said is I would expect them to be at least above average.

Watching games this season, Giannis is maybe at his best ever offensively but he's declined as a defender. Doesn't even seem to try that hard so it could get a bit better in the playoffs but it might not.

Yeah when you just look at the names you are like "What the Hell?"

But then go down the list from the 1st ranked defense and compare the defensive pieces. Milwaukee is far down the list when looking and comparing each team.

Djoker · Post #49 » by **Djoker** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:33 pm

Colbinii wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
There are a few reasons.

1) I think we are past the day in the NBA where you can just have two good defensive big man and have a Top Tier defense. That may have been true in the past, but there is so much defense required to be played on the perimeter and so many different actions in each offensive possession that having weak perimeter defenders eventually leads to an easy drive-and-kick or open shot on the perimeter.

2) Middleton/Beasley/Lillard are all negative to horrific defenders. Middleton's offensive game is still effective because he is a smooth criminal on that end with a strong mid-range game, but defensively he isn't what he was in 2021. Beasley and Lillard make for one of the worst defensive back-courts in the Modern Game.

3) It is because they have/had a new coach/system which was built entirely around the strength of Jrue Holiday, only for Jrue Holiday to be traded for a defensive sieve in Damian Lillard.

4) They have no depth. Payne/Beauchamp/Old Crowder is a weak bench, especially defensively. This isn't like the Timberwolves where they have all-defensive type talents on the bench like NAW and SlowMo.

Good post but I didn't say they should be top tier. What I said is I would expect them to be at least above average.

Watching games this season, Giannis is maybe at his best ever offensively but he's declined as a defender. Doesn't even seem to try that hard so it could get a bit better in the playoffs but it might not.

Yeah when you just look at the names you are like "What the Hell?"

But then go down the list from the 1st ranked defense and compare the defensive pieces. Milwaukee is far down the list when looking and comparing each team.

Yea but I'm not saying they should be #1 in the league defensively. Clearly they lack perimeter defense. But 22nd in the league? That's disappointing...

Homer38 · Post #50 » by **Homer38** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:38 pm

Djoker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Good post but I didn't say they should be top tier. What I said is I would expect them to be at least above average.

Watching games this season, Giannis is maybe at his best ever offensively but he's declined as a defender. Doesn't even seem to try that hard so it could get a bit better in the playoffs but it might not.

Yeah when you just look at the names you are like "What the Hell?"

But then go down the list from the 1st ranked defense and compare the defensive pieces. Milwaukee is far down the list when looking and comparing each team.

Yea but I'm not saying they should be #1 in the league defensively. Clearly they lack perimeter defense. But 22nd in the league? That's disappointing...

I think losing Bud as head coach hurt big time their defense

MyUniBroDavis · Post #51 » by **MyUniBroDavis** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:14 pm

Djoker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Good post but I didn't say they should be top tier. What I said is I would expect them to be at least above average.

Watching games this season, Giannis is maybe at his best ever offensively but he's declined as a defender. Doesn't even seem to try that hard so it could get a bit better in the playoffs but it might not.

Yeah when you just look at the names you are like "What the Hell?"

But then go down the list from the 1st ranked defense and compare the defensive pieces. Milwaukee is far down the list when looking and comparing each team.

Yea but I'm not saying they should be #1 in the league defensively. Clearly they lack perimeter defense. But 22nd in the league? That's disappointing...

I’m not watching them all too much, I’ve heard Giannis has been stupid lazy lately on defense now lol

Colbinii · Post #52 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:19 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Yeah when you just look at the names you are like "What the Hell?"

But then go down the list from the 1st ranked defense and compare the defensive pieces. Milwaukee is far down the list when looking and comparing each team.

Yea but I'm not saying they should be #1 in the league defensively. Clearly they lack perimeter defense. But 22nd in the league? That's disappointing...

I’m not watching them all too much, I’ve heard Giannis has been stupid lazy lately on defense now lol

The Lillard effect

jalengreen · Post #53 » by **jalengreen** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:20 am

Colbinii wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Yea but I'm not saying they should be #1 in the league defensively. Clearly they lack perimeter defense. But 22nd in the league? That's disappointing...

I’m not watching them all too much, I’ve heard Giannis has been stupid lazy lately on defense now lol

The Lillard effect

Funnily enough I think Lillard's defense has been much improved this year compared to recent years.

Djoker · Post #54 » by **Djoker** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 4:54 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:
Djoker wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Yeah when you just look at the names you are like "What the Hell?"

But then go down the list from the 1st ranked defense and compare the defensive pieces. Milwaukee is far down the list when looking and comparing each team.

Yea but I'm not saying they should be #1 in the league defensively. Clearly they lack perimeter defense. But 22nd in the league? That's disappointing...

I’m not watching them all too much, I’ve heard Giannis has been stupid lazy lately on defense now lol

You heard right. He's lazy.

He's not quite a one way player but he's maybe just a positive defender compared to DPOY level he used to be.