Luka Doncic ('24 NBA Scoring Leader) & Kyrie Irving - 23-24 NBA Thread

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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#141 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:22 pm

AEnigma wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:
AEnigma wrote:Congratulations to Luka for being able to shut down assignments like Keyonte George, but I would not call that being a good defender.

Fortunately, as with peak Harden, his team really just needs him to be competent on that end.

Not sure the point of the first line when you acknowledge the 2nd? Nobody thinks he is Herb Jones nor could possibly have that expectation with his offensive responsibilites. What he needs to do is give effort, not get lost off ball or gamble too much. He's still not completely there but much like much criticized Dirk their size has always made them more effective defenders than perception.

Its easy to just go hur dur Harden, but Harden was better than his rep too in many ways. Neither guy's issue has ever been defensive ability its been finding the energy and the care considering what they have to do offensively.

I encourage you to read one post above mine, citing “91st percentile” defensive metrics as proof he is now a good defender.


I have no idea who Hero of the Day is. Nor do I care what conclusions they are reaching. Why would I attempt to interact with an unknown as opposed a regular on this board. But if you think I should be holding random twitter accounts accountable but not you, got you down. You just want to say whatever with no challenge? Odd as aggressively as you challenge others, but you aren't the only one with that approach...

Data in the end is just data. I think most people realize Dallas tries their best to protect Luka, but its a PNR league. Just as he hunts favorable matchups to attack, sometimes teams attack him. Him showing that he holds up better than perception should be seen as an encouraging sign, not a sign he's suddenly all defense and I'd hope we'd better than just cheap one liners, but I'm guilty of that myself at times. We all like a cheap pop from time to time.
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#142 » by Colbinii » Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:33 pm

Luka has a floor as a defender significantly higher than someone like Trae Young or Steve Nash due to size. Assuming you factor in defensive rebounding to the equation when assessing defense, Luka is going to be more than serviceable on that end.

You don't want him in isolation situations against the best players, but few players do you trust in those situations anyways.

The advantage of attacking Luka defensively has more to do with making him work harder since his offensive load is so large rather than "picking on the weak guy". There isn't a major difference in attacking Kyrie/Luka/Green/Hardaway Jr.
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#143 » by AEnigma » Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:41 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
AEnigma wrote:
Texas Chuck wrote:Not sure the point of the first line when you acknowledge the 2nd? Nobody thinks he is Herb Jones nor could possibly have that expectation with his offensive responsibilites. What he needs to do is give effort, not get lost off ball or gamble too much. He's still not completely there but much like much criticized Dirk their size has always made them more effective defenders than perception.

Its easy to just go hur dur Harden, but Harden was better than his rep too in many ways. Neither guy's issue has ever been defensive ability its been finding the energy and the care considering what they have to do offensively.

I encourage you to read one post above mine, citing “91st percentile” defensive metrics as proof he is now a good defender.


I have no idea who Hero of the Day is. Nor do I care what conclusions they are reaching. Why would I attempt to interact with an unknown as opposed a regular on this board. But if you think I should be holding random twitter accounts accountable but not you, got you down. You just want to say whatever with no challenge? Odd as aggressively as you challenge others, but you aren't the only one with that approach...

Data in the end is just data. I think most people realize Dallas tries their best to protect Luka, but its a PNR league. Just as he hunts favorable matchups to attack, sometimes teams attack him. Him showing that he holds up better than perception should be seen as an encouraging sign, not a sign he's suddenly all defense and I'd hope we'd better than just cheap one liners, but I'm guilty of that myself at times. We all like a cheap pop from time to time.

I do not mind you coming at me, I mind you not having any purpose in doing so. I said he was not a good defender, and you seem to generally agree. I said all Dallas needed him to be was adequate, and you seem to generally agree. I compared him to peak Harden, and you seem to generally agree with the function of the comparison — although you bafflingly assumed it was an accidental functionality on my part.

Maybe it was a cheap one-liner, but not much cheaper than posting without commentary a misleading data tweet concluding “he is now a good defender.” And if you are going to object to the one-liner, I would like you to have a real objection beyond the fact I made it.
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#144 » by Texas Chuck » Tue Mar 26, 2024 6:50 pm

I gave you my objections. Since you say you are cool with that we can all move along. And no I'm not going to come respond to every tweet Troublesome posts.
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#145 » by dygaction » Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:07 am

Want to see OMax, Powell, Morris and Hardy get some time
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#146 » by dygaction » Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:34 pm

Gafford at age 25, is a career .717TS% player with 312 games played and this season with Mavs .773TS%. He will be easily #1 when he qualifies. He is also coming for all time #1 in a single season with 10 more games to improve:

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for True Shooting Percentage:

1. Rudy Gobert .6707
2. DeAndre Jordan .6442
3. Nikola Jokić .6341
4. Cedric Maxwell .6294
5. Stephen Curry .6258
6. Tyson Chandler .6257
7. John Collins .6238
8. Karl-Anthony Towns .6237
9. Artis Gilmore* .6227
10. Clint Capela .6203



NBA & ABA Single Season Leaders and Records for True Shooting Pct

1. Rudy Gobert .7324 2021-22
2. Daniel Gafford .7274 2023-24
3. Mitchell Robinson .7264 2019-20
4. Tyson Chandler .7081 2011-12
5. Artis Gilmore* .7024 1981-82
6. Nikola Jokić .7015 2022-23
7. Artis Gilmore* .6995 1980-81
8. Kyle Korver .6987 2014-15
9. Rudy Gobert .6986 2019-20
10. Jarrett Allen .6980 2021-2
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#147 » by dygaction » Wed Mar 27, 2024 8:41 pm

Also Kyrie has career high dunks this season. Currently on a 25/5/5 (25.3/5.0r/5.3a) + 50/40/90 (49.1/40.7/90.5) watch.
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#148 » by LukaTheGOAT » Mon Apr 1, 2024 6:34 am

Luka vs top 10 defenses this season (sample size of 29 games)

36.1 ppg
9.5 apg
8.9 rpg
51/45/78
64.63% TS
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#149 » by ardee » Mon Apr 1, 2024 9:51 am

Mavs are 19-6 in their last 25. Clippers are 13-12 in the same timeframe and only 2 games ahead in the standings.

I wonder if the Mavs steal the 4th seed and win 50+ if we could potentially end up with a surprisingly close Jokic/Doncic MVP race.
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#150 » by TroubleS0me » Mon Apr 1, 2024 2:29 pm

ardee wrote:Mavs are 19-6 in their last 25. Clippers are 13-12 in the same timeframe and only 2 games ahead in the standings.

I wonder if the Mavs steal the 4th seed and win 50+ if we could potentially end up with a surprisingly close Jokic/Doncic MVP race.


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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#151 » by TroubleS0me » Mon Apr 1, 2024 2:32 pm

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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#152 » by TroubleS0me » Wed Apr 3, 2024 4:41 pm

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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#153 » by TroubleS0me » Thu Apr 4, 2024 10:48 pm

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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#154 » by Pelly24 » Fri Apr 5, 2024 3:43 am

It's so funny that people were able to convince themselves that Luka and Kyrie wouldn't work as a duo (on the court!) after 20 games, when it took the 2010-2011 Heat like half the season to coalesce. Goes to show you the power of narratives. You give Luka a "sidekick" who can average 25/5/5 on 60 TS% and turn the ball over less than two times a game and run the offense and keep it as a top 10 offense when he's off the court without being a major defensive liability, and if you make that person an elite three-level scorer who doesn't really need much rhythm to get going, and can play on and off ball at any moment without much compromise ... that's pretty much an ideal player to put with someone like Luka. Really, it's an ideal player to put in most situations, just as long as he's not in a weird mental state. Knock on wood! But shout out to these guys and the Mavs for being a smart organization.
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#155 » by dygaction » Sun Apr 7, 2024 11:44 pm

One of the best wins, like the team chemistry at the end.

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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#156 » by TroubleS0me » Mon Apr 8, 2024 6:45 pm

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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#157 » by dygaction » Tue Apr 9, 2024 1:45 am

3rd time of this season for Luka. Superstar treatment from the league or unfair treatment from the referees?
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#158 » by LukaTheGOAT » Tue Apr 9, 2024 11:00 pm

Luka's got the DRIP

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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#159 » by parsnips33 » Tue Apr 9, 2024 11:08 pm

I'm sure Brad Stevens has EOY all wrapped up, but adding Gafford and Washington mid-season feels so big for this team's ceiling
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Re: Luka Doncic & Kyrie Irving 23-24 Regular Season Thread 

Post#160 » by dygaction » Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:16 am

parsnips33 wrote:I'm sure Brad Stevens has EOY all wrapped up, but adding Gafford and Washington mid-season feels so big for this team's ceiling


You cannot do better than Nico. Mavs added all-new, young, big, athletics, core main rotation for Luka and Kyrie this past year:

Derrick Jones Jr. $2M/yr, 27 yr old
Dante Exum, $3M/yr, 28 yr old
Dereck Lively II, rookie, 20 yr old
PJ Washington Jr. $16.8M/yr, 25 yr old
Daniel Gafford, $12.4M/yr, 25 yr old

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