Luka Doncic ('24 NBA Scoring Leader) & Kyrie Irving - 23-24 NBA Thread

[Cavsfansince84]

I think Luka is going to have a his second break out season this year where he goes from just being a top 6-7 player to being firmly in that top 3 group. Maybe 1st mvp. All his shooting %'s are trending towards career highs(3pt in both volume and %!). Granted it likely comes down a bit but so far so good.

[TroubleS0me]

Read on Twitter

[O_6]

This could be fun. Kyrie has to deliver when it matters though, too many issues in recent years. Luka looks great but the shooting needs to be more consistent. They’ve really shut a lot of haters up early but it’s still early and durability is something both of them need to prove.

[rk2023]

This could be fun. Kyrie has to deliver when it matters though, too many issues in recent years. Luka looks great but the shooting needs to be more consistent. They’ve really shut a lot of haters up early but it’s still early and durability is something both of them need to prove.

I like the Lively pick a lot. In the Luka era, the Mavs really have been missing that true rim-running big (Luka made Powell look a lot better than he is on O) who can defend the paint well. They’ve added some nice reinforcements, and I’m hoping they can trade Hardaway for some more on defense as well.

[Pelly24]

I really fail to see how Kyrie makes this team better compared to available alternatives.

What are these alternatives?

Like the guys he got traded for. Mavs need 3 and D guys more than they need another ball-dominant iso-heavy guard.

This was always a hard take for me to understand. NBA championships are basically about stars. If Jokic didn't have Jamal Murray, probably doesn't have a title. If LeBron didn't have Wade, AD, or Kyrie, he probably doesn't have a title. 3&D guys are never more important than adding a second top 10-20 player in the league. We've seen how that movie ends. The Mavs should make that trade every day all day and twice on Sunday. the only issues Kyrie really has are off the court. With him, you get a 27/5/6 on 63 TS% guy with a low turnover rate who can play on or off ball, collapse a defense and create and make the hardest and most important shots in the game in the highest pressure situations. People talk about him like he's DeMar Derozan or Zach Lavine or something, but no, Kyrie is a real all-star/All-NBA level guy. He didn't start out that good this season, but the Mavs were still winning in part because of him. He was playing below average for him, but it was still above average for the average guard, and most likely, that's the worst he'll play all season; 21/5/7 on below average, but not horrific efficiency and solid playmaking and plenty of sound decision making. Just the fact that he's on the court means teams won't always sell out to guard Luka.

The point is that you need to get Kyrie *and* 3&D guys and a solid big. I'd consider getting rid of Josh Green and one other guy to get a better big man and then another average 3&D wing. I'd want to keep THJ

[Iwasawitness]

Irving is a gifted player. He CAN contribute to a team in a positive matter. Obviously he's not who you want being the main weapon and best player, but in this case he isn't, so there's legitimate use for him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a moron and can say and do some incredibly stupid things. But if you keep him in check, and he has a clear understanding of his role, he can help you win.

[Colbinii]

I really fail to see how Kyrie makes this team better compared to available alternatives.

What are these alternatives?

Like the guys he got traded for. Mavs need 3 and D guys more than they need another ball-dominant iso-heavy guard.

The thing is, Kyrie isn't a ball dominant guard.

[Peregrine01]

What are these alternatives?

Like the guys he got traded for. Mavs need 3 and D guys more than they need another ball-dominant iso-heavy guard.

This was always a hard take for me to understand. NBA championships are basically about stars. If Jokic didn't have Jamal Murray, probably doesn't have a title. If LeBron didn't have Wade, AD, or Kyrie, he probably doesn't have a title. 3&D guys are never more important than adding a second top 10-20 player in the league. We've seen how that movie ends. The Mavs should make that trade every day all day and twice on Sunday. the only issues Kyrie really has are off the court. With him, you get a 27/5/6 on 63 TS% guy with a low turnover rate who can play on or off ball, collapse a defense and create and make the hardest and most important shots in the game in the highest pressure situations. People talk about him like he's DeMar Derozan or Zach Lavine or something, but no, Kyrie is a real all-star/All-NBA level guy. He didn't start out that good this season, but the Mavs were still winning in part because of him. He was playing below average for him, but it was still above average for the average guard, and most likely, that's the worst he'll play all season; 21/5/7 on below average, but not horrific efficiency and solid playmaking and plenty of sound decision making. Just the fact that he's on the court means teams won't always sell out to guard Luka.

The point is that you need to get Kyrie *and* 3&D guys and a solid big. I'd consider getting rid of Josh Green and one other guy to get a better big man and then another average 3&D wing. I'd want to keep THJ

Well, Kyrie has never been that efficient a scorer on that kind of volume.

I suppose the biggest value add is that when Luka is off they have Kyrie, reminiscent of the Luka/Brunson pairing. I just question the degree to which the two players synergize when they're actually on the court together and thought that the Mavs gave up too much to get Kyrie. Now the Mavs have made some great moves to replace the guys they traded away so this might well be a moot point.

[Pelly24]

Like the guys he got traded for. Mavs need 3 and D guys more than they need another ball-dominant iso-heavy guard.

This was always a hard take for me to understand. NBA championships are basically about stars. If Jokic didn't have Jamal Murray, probably doesn't have a title. If LeBron didn't have Wade, AD, or Kyrie, he probably doesn't have a title. 3&D guys are never more important than adding a second top 10-20 player in the league. We've seen how that movie ends. The Mavs should make that trade every day all day and twice on Sunday. the only issues Kyrie really has are off the court. With him, you get a 27/5/6 on 63 TS% guy with a low turnover rate who can play on or off ball, collapse a defense and create and make the hardest and most important shots in the game in the highest pressure situations. People talk about him like he's DeMar Derozan or Zach Lavine or something, but no, Kyrie is a real all-star/All-NBA level guy. He didn't start out that good this season, but the Mavs were still winning in part because of him. He was playing below average for him, but it was still above average for the average guard, and most likely, that's the worst he'll play all season; 21/5/7 on below average, but not horrific efficiency and solid playmaking and plenty of sound decision making. Just the fact that he's on the court means teams won't always sell out to guard Luka.

The point is that you need to get Kyrie *and* 3&D guys and a solid big. I'd consider getting rid of Josh Green and one other guy to get a better big man and then another average 3&D wing. I'd want to keep THJ

Well, Kyrie has never been that efficient a scorer on that kind of volume.

I suppose the biggest value add is that when Luka is off they have Kyrie, reminiscent of the Luka/Brunson pairing. I just question the degree to which the two players synergize when they're actually on the court together and thought that the Mavs gave up too much to get Kyrie. Now the Mavs have made some great moves to replace the guys they traded away so this might well be a moot point.

Kyrie has been around that efficient with that volume. League average TS% was 57% in 2021, he was at 61 TS%. He averaged 27/5/6 with that efficiency. League average TS% is 58 TS% now, and he averaged 27 on 63 TS% with the Mavs last year. On a per possession basis, he's been a +3-+5 TS% for years.

I think the Mavs were just in a tough spot, and Kyrie is really a pretty portable guy. What he's good at he'll always be good at — he can play slow or fast, half court or full court, on or off ball. I think it was decent decision in a tough position. Gotta get Luka a star, and Kyrie is still that. If all goes well, he can average like 28/5/5 in the playoffs and him and Luka can do big things if they add another decent piece. Even if he plays substandard, he won't play much worse than like, 22/5/5 on decent efficiency with low turnovers, which gives Luka a chance still with THJ and other contributors.

But we'll see. I think the move was a no-brainer if you couldn't get another guy. But if you want a championship team, two one-way players, no matter how great, and a bad defense won't get it done. Gotta have your MPJ's and Aaron Gordons — your Jrue Holidays, etc. as third and fourth options. Their first and second options are elite and very good. Third -through fifth options and defense are ... okay

[TroubleS0me]

Read on Twitter

[TroubleS0me]

Read on Twitter

[Texas Chuck]

These arbitrary first player stats things always crack me up. Like when Luka did 60/20/10 okay that's probably significant enough to highlight. This? I mean its 35/15/15 which is pretty remarkable, but the other stuff is just to make him the first.

Also, his team sucks. How do you lose a game with a 30-0 run? On the plus side, Lively looks like the Mavs found something late in the lottery. He might be pretty good in a couple years.

[TroubleS0me]

These arbitrary first player stats things always crack me up. Like when Luka did 60/20/10 okay that's probably significant enough to highlight. This? I mean its 35/15/15 which is pretty remarkable, but the other stuff is just to make him the first.

Also, his team sucks. How do you lose a game with a 30-0 run? On the plus side, Lively looks like the Mavs found something late in the lottery. He might be pretty good in a couple years.

Yea thats tough, a big run and a lost.

[TroubleS0me]

Watch on YouTube

[Texas Chuck]

I'd say Luka's 30 point 1st half triple double was impressive (first ever 25/10/10 half in NBA history) but its against a bad team's B squad so....

These Luka numbers though are starting to become like Wilt's numbers. I can't take them at face value because they are so absurd.

[TroubleS0me]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

[TroubleS0me]

Watch on YouTube

[dygaction]

Luka's past 5 games, 4W-1L
41/9/9; 0TO
36/15/18; 30-0 4th quarter run, 46min
40/10/11; 29/10/10 first half leads to a 50pt beat down of Jazz
32/6/10; with Grant Williams/Josh Green/Maxi Kleber/Kyrie injured, 41min
35/8/6; with Grant Williams/Josh Green/Maxi Kleber/Kyrie/THJ/Derrick Jones Jr. injured, 44min

Kidd in full Thibodeau mode using Luka. Things are getting difficult with the toughest schedule coming and extended injuries on the team. Mavs are #3 in the West but only 2 games above #10...

Lakers
Timberwolves
@Blazers
@Nuggets
Clippers
@Rockets
Spurs
@Suns
Cavaliers
@Timberwolves
@Warriors

[TroubleS0me]

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

Well, Kyrie has never been that efficient a scorer on that kind of volume.

Eh?

Kyrie's a career 105 TS+ player. 17-23, he averaged 25.7 ppg on 59.9% TS, never posting UNDER 105 TS+ and averaging 106.3.

He's absolutely been efficient in volume; that has never been his issue.