Nikola Jokic - 23-24 NBA Thread - 23 Finals NBA MVP

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#121 » by GSP » Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:33 am

homecourtloss wrote:
AEnigma wrote:I would rather talk about how Steph has clearly become awful at basketball.


On-off of -5.9 for Curry is wild, absolutely wild given how efficient he’s been offensively. He’s been terrible defensively, though, which has been surprising since he’s improved and was a plus defender as recently as two seasons ago.

No way he winds up the season any lower than at least +5.0 On-off.


No coincidence Steph looks awful on defense right when Klay looks cooked and cant move his feet the same. His whole career Klay was guarding other teams best guard while they could hide Steph on 3 and d role players or bums. Gave fake moniker of Steph being "underrated" on defense when he was hidden behind one of if not the best defenses of his generation. Klay cant guard guards anymore but still guards wings well since they dont have as much speed. Now Steph cant hide from them.......Guards like Fox and Sga licking their chops when they see him. Sga has abused him all season.

They havent played Mavs, Sixers or Pacers yet. Luka, Maxey, Hali waiting for him........ :lift: :droop:
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#123 » by ty 4191 » Sat Dec 16, 2023 11:38 am

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#124 » by TroubleS0me » Tue Dec 19, 2023 4:42 am

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#125 » by Special_Puppy » Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:01 pm

He's had about a 7 game streak where he's played below his absurdly high standards
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#126 » by parsnips33 » Wed Dec 20, 2023 8:32 pm

GSP wrote:
homecourtloss wrote:
AEnigma wrote:I would rather talk about how Steph has clearly become awful at basketball.


On-off of -5.9 for Curry is wild, absolutely wild given how efficient he’s been offensively. He’s been terrible defensively, though, which has been surprising since he’s improved and was a plus defender as recently as two seasons ago.

No way he winds up the season any lower than at least +5.0 On-off.


No coincidence Steph looks awful on defense right when Klay looks cooked and cant move his feet the same. His whole career Klay was guarding other teams best guard while they could hide Steph on 3 and d role players or bums. Gave fake moniker of Steph being "underrated" on defense when he was hidden behind one of if not the best defenses of his generation. Klay cant guard guards anymore but still guards wings well since they dont have as much speed. Now Steph cant hide from them.......Guards like Fox and Sga licking their chops when they see him. Sga has abused him all season.

They havent played Mavs, Sixers or Pacers yet. Luka, Maxey, Hali waiting for him........ :lift: :droop:


Literally has not been true since 2019 lol
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#127 » by TroubleS0me » Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:34 pm

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#128 » by PistolPeteJR » Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:53 pm

The most impressive thing to me about Embiid is his FT shooting.

We used to marvel at Dirk’s prowess from the stripe. Embiid is something else.
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#129 » by Special_Puppy » Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:00 pm

Jokic still pretty clearly in the hunt for MVP
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#130 » by Jaqua92 » Fri Dec 22, 2023 6:09 pm

Jokic has still been the best, imo.

The Sixer's last 7 games, with the exception of the Timberwolves who were in foul trouble in quarter 1, have been against the worst teams in the NBA.

Once schedules even out, I'd imagine the MVP gap narrows.
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#131 » by TroubleS0me » Sat Dec 23, 2023 10:32 pm

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#132 » by ty 4191 » Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:02 pm

This would probably be the best place (and, time) to do a career greatest/value assessment on Jokic:

Jokic All Time Career Rankings:

1. True Shooting %:
-3rd (631%, regular season)
-7th (.614, playoffs)

Note: DeAndre Jordan and Rudy Gobert are the only players ahead of him all time, TS, regular season and they never take threes and also dunk 40+% of the time. So that’s actually unfair, but it is what it is!

2. Player Efficiency Rating:
-2nd (27.9, regular season)
-1st (29.0, playoffs)

3. Win Shares Per 48 Minutes:
-1st (.250, regular season)
-4th (.236, playoffs)

4. Box Plus Minus:
-1st (9.7, regular season)
-2nd (10.4, playoffs)

5. Offensive Rating:
-3rd (125.1, regular season)
-3rd (124.2, playoffs)

6. Triple Doubles:
-4th (116, regular season)
-3rd (16, playoffs)

Other interesting records/accomplishments of note:

1. Jokic has the highest career 3P% in NBA history in the playoffs (min. 4+ 3PA/G), at .412 3P%.

Notables:
Klay Thompson: .405
Jamal Murray: .404
Ray Allen: .401
Steph Curry: .397

-Jokic’s career assist percentage is 36.1% in the regular season. That is far and away the best in NBA history for a Center.

Second place all time is Alvin Adams: 21.4%!

Notables:
Duncan: 16.1%
Wilt: 15.8
Russel: 14.9%
Kareem: 14.6%

-Jokic’s career assist percentage in the playoffs is 34.7%! Adams is second again, 20.8%. HILARIOUS!

Notables:
Olajuwon: 15.6%
Shaq: 14.7%
Embiid: 13.9%
Duncan: 13.5%
Russel: 13.3%
Kareem: 13.2%
Wilt: 12.9%

Questions for everyone:

-Is he the greatest offensive center ever?

-Greatest offensive peak/prime (3-4 year span) of ANY player?

-Greatest peak of any center?

-Where do you rank him among centers, now, all time?

-Where do you rank him among all players, all time?
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#133 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:27 pm

ty 4191 wrote:
Questions for everyone:

-Is he the greatest offensive center ever?

-Greatest offensive peak/prime (3-4 year span) of ANY player?

-Greatest peak of any center?

-Where do you rank him among centers, now, all time?

-Where do you rank him among all players, all time?


Some amazing numbers!

Here's my general take from these questions:

The way I tend to operate is to see current in-prime players as guys for whom legacy is still being written, let alone understood.

I think it's entirely possible that by the end of his career I'll rank Jokic at #1 in most, or even all, of these questions, but it will depend on how things play out.

It's within the realm of possibility that Jokic will lead Denver to titles as a matter of course for years to come and that we will all be left in agreement that there really wasn't any way to stop him so long as he had a decently built & healthy roster around him.

It's also possible that, say, we see a run where Denver & Philly meet up repeatedly in the Finals and Embiid comes off with the decisive edge and it makes it hard for Jokic to even get consideration for #1 in most of those questions. (I say this as someone the Philly fanatics on the GB would certainly see as an Embiid-skeptic. I've long been a Team Joker guy over a Team Troel guy, and haven't changed my mind.)

And of course there are many other things that could happen which leave us with a more tempered sense of just how unstoppable Jokic is.
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#134 » by TroubleS0me » Fri Jan 5, 2024 12:13 pm

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#135 » by TroubleS0me » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:20 pm

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#136 » by TroubleS0me » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:21 pm

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP [ Warning. No insulting/baiting] 

Post#137 » by scrabbarista » Sun Jan 14, 2024 8:40 pm

ty 4191 wrote:This would probably be the best place (and, time) to do a career greatest/value assessment on Jokic:

Jokic All Time Career Rankings:

1. True Shooting %:
-3rd (631%, regular season)
-7th (.614, playoffs)

Note: DeAndre Jordan and Rudy Gobert are the only players ahead of him all time, TS, regular season and they never take threes and also dunk 40+% of the time. So that’s actually unfair, but it is what it is!

2. Player Efficiency Rating:
-2nd (27.9, regular season)
-1st (29.0, playoffs)

3. Win Shares Per 48 Minutes:
-1st (.250, regular season)
-4th (.236, playoffs)

4. Box Plus Minus:
-1st (9.7, regular season)
-2nd (10.4, playoffs)

5. Offensive Rating:
-3rd (125.1, regular season)
-3rd (124.2, playoffs)

6. Triple Doubles:
-4th (116, regular season)
-3rd (16, playoffs)

Other interesting records/accomplishments of note:

1. Jokic has the highest career 3P% in NBA history in the playoffs (min. 4+ 3PA/G), at .412 3P%.

Notables:
Klay Thompson: .405
Jamal Murray: .404
Ray Allen: .401
Steph Curry: .397

-Jokic’s career assist percentage is 36.1% in the regular season. That is far and away the best in NBA history for a Center.

Second place all time is Alvin Adams: 21.4%!

Notables:
Duncan: 16.1%
Wilt: 15.8
Russel: 14.9%
Kareem: 14.6%

-Jokic’s career assist percentage in the playoffs is 34.7%! Adams is second again, 20.8%. HILARIOUS!

Notables:
Olajuwon: 15.6%
Shaq: 14.7%
Embiid: 13.9%
Duncan: 13.5%
Russel: 13.3%
Kareem: 13.2%
Wilt: 12.9%

Questions for everyone:

-Is he the greatest offensive center ever?

-Greatest offensive peak/prime (3-4 year span) of ANY player?

-Greatest peak of any center?

-Where do you rank him among centers, now, all time?

-Where do you rank him among all players, all time?


1. n/a
2. it's between him, MJ, and LBJ - so, maybe
3. Yes
4. n/a
5. Circa 20th (maybe a spot or two lower), but obviously climbing fast. I tend to try to hold players back until what they've done is (imo, obvs) "undeniable," and I never project forward in my rankings.
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP - Jokic has played 12 more games than Embiid 

Post#138 » by LA Bird » Mon Jan 15, 2024 3:53 am

Jokic in last 20 games:

Dec 6 - Dec 25: 21.6 ppg on 48% FG
Dec 28 - Jan 14: 22.7 ppg on 81% FG

Wonder how long he can keep up his recent shooting percentages.
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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP 

Post#139 » by TroubleS0me » Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:50 pm

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Re: Nikola Jokic 23-24 Regular Season Thread - 23 Finals MVP 

Post#140 » by TroubleS0me » Sat Jan 20, 2024 4:49 am

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