The Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Chet Holmgren Thread

ShotCreator · Post #1 » by **ShotCreator** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 2:57 am

They've put me on notice.

A thread for these two is way overdue.

Chet's defense is probably all-timeish for being a rookie but his offense is so pure and effortless.

His reactions and instincts in just pure shot creation is something you only see in really effective volume scorers.
You overplay his drive, he'll use the other side of the rim - you time his pull-up he'll create something out of a pivot, you anticipate his dribble move, he can cross over or improvise with no issue. It's elite offensive potential.

One thing that sticks out to me is Holmgren is on a great offense, playing team oriented with very little ball dominance, and he's efficient everywhere on the shot chart.

Kawhi Leonard was very similar in his early 20's with San Antonio. He was never close to maxing out his volume so he was consistently effective everywhere on the court.

TroubleS0me · Post #2 » by **TroubleS0me** » Fri Dec 1, 2023 3:50 am

Read on Twitter

GSP · Post #3 » by **GSP** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 12:13 am

Elgee just ranked them as his 8th best duo in Nba

His cohost on pod wasnt as high on them and thinks their supporting cast around them and coaching have put them in great positions but isnt as high on them solely as a duo

parsnips33 · Post #4 » by **parsnips33** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 12:16 am

Yeah, these guys are ridiculous

ShotCreator · Post #5 » by **ShotCreator** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 2:10 am

GSP wrote:Elgee just ranked them as his 8th best duo in Nba

His cohost on pod wasnt as high on them and thinks their supporting cast around them and coaching have put them in great positions but isnt as high on them solely as a duo

Wow. That's steep.

Now that I think about it there are a lot of great duos, on paper anyway.

Embiid Maxey
Jokic Murray
Giannis Lillard
AD Bron
Kawhi PG
Durant Booker
Luka Irving
Curry Draymond

I could easily be missing a couple too.

I will say though, guys are getting old. And a lot of these duos are not impacting the game defensively like Shai and Holmgren.

To me the question in the West is, 'who is beating OKC four times?' as opposed to 'who is gonna win?' Young teams that are good tend to actually be better in playoff series when the athleticism gap shows over other teams. Raw athleticism can close big skill gaps, but it's not like OKC isn't skilled. OKC is making this season particularly fun to follow for me. I'm hoping they blow everybody away, but if they don't it'll be fun to see how they lose.

rk2023 · Post #6 » by **rk2023** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 2:44 am

Shai is rather clearly in the MVP running this year Imo. I would go as far to say he’s 3rd in my race behind Joker and Embiid

The Master · Post #7 » by **The Master** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 3:54 am

ShotCreator wrote:To me the question in the West is, 'who is beating OKC four times?' as opposed to 'who is gonna win?' Young teams that are good tend to actually be better in playoff series when the athleticism gap shows over other teams. Raw athleticism can close big skill gaps, but it's not like OKC isn't skilled. OKC is making this season particularly fun to follow for me. I'm hoping they blow everybody away, but if they don't it'll be fun to see how they lose.

OKC at least for now look more like a RS juggernaut (I don't think they'll maintain their 3pt-shooting level though) - but struggling in the first playoffs type of a team. They're pretty much undersized at this point on the front, have no second player that can create his own shot consistently behind SGA - and are super super young. Some teams will matchup fantastically with them, Lakers would die for playing against them in the playoffs if they're healthy (regardless of a fact that they got smashed in b2b recently) and have to start the playoffs without HCA once again.

That being said, this is completely irrelevant: SGA is 25yo and already ~top5 player in the league, Holmgren is an allstar-level player impact-wise as a 21yo, with plenty interesting young guys (Wallace, Williams, Giddey) and plenty of assets - this is ridiculous team to follow.

And first and foremost - they're built like a 'prototypical' NBA team for this era: scoring-dominant ballhandler with decent playmaking skill, but not too far ball-dominant - versatile defensively and offensively big that provides rim protection/pnr coverage/vertical and horizontal spacing - plenty of shooters that can attack closeuts etc. The only question mark besides health is Giddey, and not because of the whole affair, but because his lack of jumpshot development is discouraging.

GSP · Post #8 » by **GSP** » Sat Dec 2, 2023 11:36 pm

ShotCreator wrote:
GSP wrote:Elgee just ranked them as his 8th best duo in Nba

His cohost on pod wasnt as high on them and thinks their supporting cast around them and coaching have put them in great positions but isnt as high on them solely as a duo

Wow. That's steep.

Now that I think about it there are a lot of great duos, on paper anyway.

Embiid Maxey
Jokic Murray
Giannis Lillard
AD Bron
Kawhi PG
Durant Booker
Luka Irving
Curry Draymond

I could easily be missing a couple too.

I will say though, guys are getting old. And a lot of these duos are not impacting the game defensively like Shai and Holmgren.

To me the question in the West is, 'who is beating OKC four times?' as opposed to 'who is gonna win?' Young teams that are good tend to actually be better in playoff series when the athleticism gap shows over other teams. Raw athleticism can close big skill gaps, but it's not like OKC isn't skilled. OKC is making this season particularly fun to follow for me. I'm hoping they blow everybody away, but if they don't it'll be fun to see how they lose.

The ones you named are the ones he had higher except Luka Kyrie. They didnt mention them on pod till the end. Elgee didnt have them top 10. He did include Tatum Jrue too. Had Sga Chet ahead of Jimmy Bam, Ant Ridy, Fox Sabonis any any others

IlikeSHAIguys · Post #9 » by **IlikeSHAIguys** » Sun Dec 3, 2023 5:01 pm

This win was brought to you by the Williams & Williams flesh beard corporation

Cavsfansince84 · Post #10 » by **Cavsfansince84** » Sun Dec 3, 2023 6:58 pm

rk2023 wrote:Shai is rather clearly in the MVP running this year Imo. I would go as far to say he’s 3rd in my race behind Joker and Embiid

Ya I wouldn't say that's too much of a hot take. I think most have him as top 3-5 right now. It seems like its Joker then Embiid/Luka/Giannis/SGA/Tatum bunched up after that. Really depends on what the standings look like in March/April.