Where would ’08 Lebron James rank today?

[rebirthoftheM]

Best player.

He was offensively elite despite being surrounded by offensive chumps who provided little support or spacing.

His defense was also very good that year.

Took the Celtics to 7 games, including an epic Game 7 where he nearly stole the show.

Lebron 08 is underrated whose perception is skewed due him taking time to adjust to the Celtics defense in the 08 playoffs.

[PistolPeteJR]

I have never, ever, ever, once in my life, heard anybody say that LeBron was "QBing stupid defender like Marc Gasol". That is one of the most outlandish takes I've ever heard any poster claim. I don't know where in the world you got this from.

The quip about Tristan and Marc being "stupid defenders" that Lebron had to real-time QB where to go and how to defend was pretty obviously said ironically. I included Gasol, in particular, because as recently as 2021 you guys were still claiming in the Lebron thread that he was the real defensive anchor of those Lakers teams, presumably telling AD and Gasol where to go and what to do, and using his mins with Caruso, who under this theory was also being told where to go and how to defend, as evidence via Lebron's defensive on/offs.

LOL what? He posted plenty of evidence in response to your questions. Did you even watch the clip, for instance?

Durant saying Lebron was calling out plays and evidencing advanced film study is not proof in this case. It's perhaps circumstantial proof that Lebron is an excellent team defender, but that isn't the claim here which is that Lebron is single-handedly turning bad or mediocre defenders into good defenders just by virtue of his QBing. Specifcally, the claim was that Mozgov and Shumpert were in fact not responsible for 2015 Cavs midseason defensive turnaround which coincided exactly with their arrival, but rather that Lebron turned them into good defenders upon their arrival by instructing them (and the rest of the team, which presumably wasn't listening before but coincidentally started listening then) how to defend in real time thereby improving Cavs 2015 defense.

I just don't think you guys realize how absurd this is. To be clear, I consider Lebron to be a brilliant defender in terms of IQ, but there's a difference between being a communicative, well studied, high level team defender, and being something approaching a mythical being capable of turning bad defenders into good ones because you're telling them what to do on every possession.

Steve Nash is someone who we can point to on the other end as having a material impact on his PnR partner. We can point to Marion's outlier season in 06 or Gortat in 11 as evidence beyond Stoudamire. It's easier though becacuse Nash was passing them the ball, and so there's more a of direct link. There is no such link with Lebron. The only way to really prove what you guys are suggesting is a large scale analysis of all Lebron's teammates, done individually, both on and off court as well as before and after playing with Lebron while adjusting for age/prime. If someone did that and showed and obvious signal, maybe I'd buy in to the Lebron-defensive-puppet-master theory. Until then, No. And btw, this is exactly the kind of thing that non-Lebron die hards point to and shake their head at because the claim is so outlandish.

Dude I’m gonna say this once and move on, largely in part to the clear bias you present with most of your posts involving this guy.

1) The general consensus of non-LeBron haters in 2021 was never “Gasol sucks, LeBron is the real anchor that makes him look good on D”. Disagree? Present proof.

2) The general consensus of non-LeBron haters today has never been that he’s a GOAT defensive player at this moment in time. Only that he’s a positive and that his defensive value at 39 (in addition to having this value in seasons prior) lies in understanding and communicating schemes both off but more importantly in real time on the floor and that helps the whole team. That’s what Durant’s saying and is what many on here are saying.

Adios.

[OhayoKD]

Back on topic, I think 08 Lebron would be top 5 today. His athleticism would be amplified to make up for his lack of scoring skill in comparison with today's hoopers. He'd be even more devastating going to the basket and his drive and kick game would be virtually unstoppable. As previously stated, I don't think 08 Lebron was all that impactful defensively despite the stats. 09-13 Lebron was on another level.

He put up 30 ppg on 48% in a comparatively slower paced league, honestly I think he'd be putting up Luka type numbers if you transported him to 2024.

People act like there was some switch and 2009 LeBron just totally hit another level from his 2008 version, when he was already quite improved as a scorer by 2008.

In their defense, there was a significant change in his FT shooting, improvement in his 3pt shooting, and in general it was just a CLICK year for him in 09 versus 08. It was visible, he'd found another level.

I wonder if he found that level during the second half of the Celtics series the year before

[PistolPeteJR]

He put up 30 ppg on 48% in a comparatively slower paced league, honestly I think he'd be putting up Luka type numbers if you transported him to 2024.

People act like there was some switch and 2009 LeBron just totally hit another level from his 2008 version, when he was already quite improved as a scorer by 2008.

In their defense, there was a significant change in his FT shooting, improvement in his 3pt shooting, and in general it was just a CLICK year for him in 09 versus 08. It was visible, he'd found another level.

I wonder if he found that level during the second half of the Celtics series the year before

Elaborate on this theory please? I'm curious.

[tsherkin]

I wonder if he found that level during the second half of the Celtics series the year before

It's quite possible that series was a major catalyst, yes.

[LukaTheGOAT]

In their defense, there was a significant change in his FT shooting, improvement in his 3pt shooting, and in general it was just a CLICK year for him in 09 versus 08. It was visible, he'd found another level.

I wonder if he found that level during the second half of the Celtics series the year before

Elaborate on this theory please? I'm curious.

Lebron was very bad against the Celtics the few games of the 08 series. He ended the series incredibly strong.

[PistolPeteJR]

I wonder if he found that level during the second half of the Celtics series the year before

Elaborate on this theory please? I'm curious.

Lebron was very bad against the Celtics the few games of the 08 series. He ended the series incredibly strong.

I understand that; I'm more interested to know the theory behind how "he found that level". As in, what changed? What clicked?

[AEnigma]

He watched Kobe eviscerating the Jazz and decided he should just do that.

[Pelly24]

Whenever I watch highlights of Bron from 2003-2010, it always hits me how much more athletic he is that pretty much everyone I've ever seen in any sport pretty much. He was incredibly fast, but also graceful and capable of changing speeds super fluidly and doing all the mid-air acrobatic stuff of a Kobe or Michael Jordan. I think he easily puts up Luka numbers and would be the second or third best player in the league besides Jokic and maybe Luka.

[TheGOATRises007]

I still can't get over the fact that multiple people picked SGA over 08 LeBron.

And I'm not even a LeBron fan.