Where would peak Kobe rank in today's league?

[Pelly24]

Jokic, Luka and Giannis are better. Then I think Kobe's right there with anyone. I could see 32/6/6 on 62 or 63 TS%, or around Luka's level of scoring.

[tone wone]

One thing peak Kobe would have going for him is that Tatum would be his only competition as a "in prime" wing. All the big dogs are old. He'd get the Tatum bump.

Even if his advance stats lag a bit behind just being in his 20s and playing 70ish games a season would give him the benefit of doubt over his much older counterparts.

[Hair Jordan]

You just listed peak Kobe behind this seasons Haliburton That might be the worst take in the history of this forum. Congrats

It was different with pre-injury Haliburton at that point in the season, to be fair. I probably should have waited for the season to finish to include his name, though there is something to be said about his overall impact profile and style of play still. Last season, and overall this season, Haliburton has been exerting at worst comparable impact on O to Kobe's best seasons. He isn't the same kind of volume scorer, but he does other things far better than Kobe ever did and that helps change the overall tone.

You’re backpedaling faster than Michael Jackson hopped up on methamphetamines in a moonwalking contest. Still the worst take in the history of this forum. It’s a good thing you’re a retired mod. Otherwise they’d have to revoke your title. Awful take

[TheGOATRises007]

You just listed peak Kobe behind this seasons Haliburton That might be the worst take in the history of this forum. Congrats

It was different with pre-injury Haliburton at that point in the season, to be fair. I probably should have waited for the season to finish to include his name, though there is something to be said about his overall impact profile and style of play still. Last season, and overall this season, Haliburton has been exerting at worst comparable impact on O to Kobe's best seasons. He isn't the same kind of volume scorer, but he does other things far better than Kobe ever did and that helps change the overall tone.

You’re backpedaling faster than Michael Jackson hopped up on methamphetamines in a moonwalking contest. Still the worst take in the history of this forum. It’s a good thing you’re a retired mod. Otherwise they’d have to revoke your title. Awful take

The word play at the start

[PaulieWal]

You just listed peak Kobe behind this seasons Haliburton That might be the worst take in the history of this forum. Congrats

It was different with pre-injury Haliburton at that point in the season, to be fair. I probably should have waited for the season to finish to include his name, though there is something to be said about his overall impact profile and style of play still. Last season, and overall this season, Haliburton has been exerting at worst comparable impact on O to Kobe's best seasons. He isn't the same kind of volume scorer, but he does other things far better than Kobe ever did and that helps change the overall tone.

You’re backpedaling faster than Michael Jackson hopped up on methamphetamines in a moonwalking contest. Still the worst take in the history of this forum. It’s a good thing you’re a retired mod. Otherwise they’d have to revoke your title. Awful take

Attacking other posters will not fly. Warned for baiting.

[tsherkin]

You’re backpedaling faster than Michael Jackson hopped up on methamphetamines in a moonwalking contest. Still the worst take in the history of this forum. It’s a good thing you’re a retired mod. Otherwise they’d have to revoke your title. Awful take

Amusing imagery.

I don't particularly care if you think it was a bad take or not. At the time, I was watching Haliburton and his offensive impact was extremely high-end. It remains extremely high end, on par with Kobe's best seasons and more versatile in its approach. Kobe is not some sacrosanct figure; he wasn't perfect. There are a bunch of guys who were better on O than he was, despite the fetishism for scoring volume we see a lot in basketball fandom. That doesn't take away from how impressive he was, but it's important not to become a cultist for these guys, because comparable and better players do eventually come along.

The trick, of course, with Kobe is trying to envision what he might look like outside of the triangle. I suspect he'd shoot a shade less and spam a lot more PnRs today, which might position him to look a little better on O overall if his mentality let him do that. It would be interesting to see, but I stand by what I said.

[Hair Jordan]

You’re backpedaling faster than Michael Jackson hopped up on methamphetamines in a moonwalking contest. Still the worst take in the history of this forum. It’s a good thing you’re a retired mod. Otherwise they’d have to revoke your title. Awful take

Amusing imagery.

I don't particularly care if you think it was a bad take or not. At the time, I was watching Haliburton and his offensive impact was extremely high-end. It remains extremely high end, on par with Kobe's best seasons and more versatile in its approach. Kobe is not some sacrosanct figure; he wasn't perfect. There are a bunch of guys who were better on O than he was, despite the fetishism for scoring volume we see a lot in basketball fandom. That doesn't take away from how impressive he was, but it's important not to become a cultist for these guys, because comparable and better players do eventually come along.

The trick, of course, with Kobe is trying to envision what he might look like outside of the triangle. I suspect he'd shoot a shade less and spam a lot more PnRs today, which might position him to look a little better on O overall if his mentality let him do that. It would be interesting to see, but I stand by what I said.

I’m not even a Kobe guy. He was a homeless man’s Jordan at worst and a poor man’s Jordan at best. His scoring prowess was overrated as well. His shot selection was awful and his efficiency was horrific. He shot 6-24 from the floor in game 7 of the 2010 Finals (including 0-6 from downtown) yet was gifted the FMVP. He has more sub 50% FG games while scoring 50+ points than any player in history. Don’t even get me started on his record 12 All Defense selections (record tying 9 First Teams). Dude has more First Team All Defense selections than Olajuwon, Robinson, Pippen, Wallace, Dwight etc. Having said all of that, it’s still criminal to compare him unfavorably to Halliburton.

[IG2]

Top 3 at worst, with Jokic the only one who you could say for sure is better

[Special_Puppy]

Top 3

[JimmyFromNz]

You’re backpedaling faster than Michael Jackson hopped up on methamphetamines in a moonwalking contest. Still the worst take in the history of this forum. It’s a good thing you’re a retired mod. Otherwise they’d have to revoke your title. Awful take

Amusing imagery.

I don't particularly care if you think it was a bad take or not. At the time, I was watching Haliburton and his offensive impact was extremely high-end. It remains extremely high end, on par with Kobe's best seasons and more versatile in its approach. Kobe is not some sacrosanct figure; he wasn't perfect. There are a bunch of guys who were better on O than he was, despite the fetishism for scoring volume we see a lot in basketball fandom. That doesn't take away from how impressive he was, but it's important not to become a cultist for these guys, because comparable and better players do eventually come along.

The trick, of course, with Kobe is trying to envision what he might look like outside of the triangle. I suspect he'd shoot a shade less and spam a lot more PnRs today, which might position him to look a little better on O overall if his mentality let him do that. It would be interesting to see, but I stand by what I said.

I’m not even a Kobe guy. He was a homeless man’s Jordan at worst and a poor man’s Jordan at best. His scoring process was overrated as well. His shot selection was awful and his efficiency was horrific. He shot 6-24 from the floor in game 7 of the 2010 Finals (including 0-6 from downtown) yet was gifted the FMVP. He has more sub 50% FG games while scoring 50+ points than any player in history. Don’t even get me started on his record 12 All Defense selections (record tying 9 First Teams). Dude has more First Team All Defense selections than Olajuwon, Robinson, Pippen, Wallace, Dwight etc. Having said all of that, it’s still criminal to compare him unfavorably to Halliburton.

I find myself saying similar things quite a lot on this forum.

Definitely not a Kobe guy, and probably a registered 'hater' during his playing career.

But elements of this forum sit at the opposite end of extremes compared to the Kobe social media comments sections which we all know and dislike - different takes but equally as painful.

[One_and_Done]

Kobe would potentially be a good sidekick to Tatum, if he could adjust his attitude. I'm not confident about it though.

[Pelly24]

In his prime, during the most difficult defensive era, Kobe was as efficient as impactful during the playoffs as he was during the regular season. He was a very resilient postseason scorer and his ability to play on or off ball, and his size and his athleticism and his all-around skillset makes him very transferrable as a player. People are putting up crazy efficiency and crazy volume as a rule now, but outside of Jokic, Giannis and Luka, none of these guys have really proven what Kobe has in the playoffs. LeBron was averaging like 30 ppg on 59 TS% back in 2010. Do we think that same LeBron doesn't average 33 on 64 TS% today? It's just so much more wide open and the pace is up and LeBron in his prime would be by far the best athlete today, still. Kobe I think could get to 33/6/6 on something like 62 TS%. I don't think that's a big reach at all. Trade in a few ill-advised long-twos, get more rim attempts at higher efficiency, abuse a game without quite as many bigs all the time, more spacing. I'm pretty certain Kobe's a top 4 or 5 guy today.

[penbeast0]

In his prime, during the most difficult defensive era, Kobe was as efficient as impactful during the playoffs as he was during the regular season. He was a very resilient postseason scorer and his ability to play on or off ball, and his size and his athleticism and his all-around skillset makes him very transferrable as a player. People are putting up crazy efficiency and crazy volume as a rule now, but outside of Jokic, Giannis and Luka, none of these guys have really proven what Kobe has in the playoffs. LeBron was averaging like 30 ppg on 59 TS% back in 2010. Do we think that same LeBron doesn't average 33 on 64 TS% today? It's just so much more wide open and the pace is up and LeBron in his prime would be by far the best athlete today, still. Kobe I think could get to 33/6/6 on something like 62 TS%. I don't think that's a big reach at all. Trade in a few ill-advised long-twos, get more rim attempts at higher efficiency, abuse a game without quite as many bigs all the time, more spacing. I'm pretty certain Kobe's a top 4 or 5 guy today.

He wasn't efficient for his era, I don't see why his game would make him more efficient for today's era than he was then. That said, he would still be a dominant sub 60 TS% scorer capable of good defense when focused with an excellent physical profile and tremendous playoff resilience. How high you rate this depends on how highly you value efficiency in your scorers.

[LeBird]

Kobe benefitted from the post-MJ era where being a ball-hog that jacked up a lot of shots was the prototype. It’s back to team-ball/high-efficiency these days and I don’t see people ranking him in the top 5 - top 8 is more likely. He’s basically Tatum.

[penbeast0]

Kobe benefitted from the post-MJ era where being a ball-hog that jacked up a lot of shots was the prototype. It’s back to team-ball/high-efficiency these days and I don’t see people ranking him in the top 5 - top 8 is more likely. He’s basically Tatum.

If you are a stat guy, you might want to look at 2001 v. 2024 and compare the percentage of points scored by the lead scorer on each team when he's in the game. I think we have moved to a model that is even more focused on the main stars scoring with everyone else moving off ball for 3 and D type support roles though I don't have the numbers to support that.

I will say that I believe stars generally played more games/minutes in 2001 so just looking at scoring without that context will not be a clear answer to this question.

[Dutchball97]

Midway through the season just doesn't seem like the best time to do threads like this because so much depends on how the current players perform in the post-season.

[One_and_Done]

Kobe wouldn't be more efficient today, as discussed. His inelastic scoring is a 2 edged sword.

[KembaWalker]

2nd behind Jokic

lol @ inelastic scoring. Kobe took good shots for his era and would take good shots in this era. He’d be the smartest non Jokic player in the league

[Peregrine01]

In his prime, during the most difficult defensive era, Kobe was as efficient as impactful during the playoffs as he was during the regular season. He was a very resilient postseason scorer and his ability to play on or off ball, and his size and his athleticism and his all-around skillset makes him very transferrable as a player. People are putting up crazy efficiency and crazy volume as a rule now, but outside of Jokic, Giannis and Luka, none of these guys have really proven what Kobe has in the playoffs. LeBron was averaging like 30 ppg on 59 TS% back in 2010. Do we think that same LeBron doesn't average 33 on 64 TS% today? It's just so much more wide open and the pace is up and LeBron in his prime would be by far the best athlete today, still. Kobe I think could get to 33/6/6 on something like 62 TS%. I don't think that's a big reach at all. Trade in a few ill-advised long-twos, get more rim attempts at higher efficiency, abuse a game without quite as many bigs all the time, more spacing. I'm pretty certain Kobe's a top 4 or 5 guy today.

Kobe was a prisoner of that era, which was isolation heavy, fadeaways, one dribble pull-up deep twos, etc. etc. It had a lot to do with how Jordan was perceived to play and it was some of the dumbest basketball ever played. So even at his best he was a +2% TS type of player.

Assuming that he becomes a +4-5% TS type of player on the same kind of volume assumes that his approach is completely different from what we know it.

[spree8]

Kobe would potentially be a good sidekick to Tatum, if he could adjust his attitude. I'm not confident about it though.

Kinda spamming this thread with the Kobe hate no? Seems you really got it out for him considering you post about him quite often throughout the whole site in a very negative tone. Just let it out once and be done with it lol