Jerry West vs Stephen Curry

[Colbinii]

When two guys have similar box score profile and we don’t have impact data for one of them due to the era they played in, at some point you have to look at whether their team got it done in the playoffs. Here are the career playoff records for both by series:

Curry: 23-5
West: 16-12

That’s a pretty dramatic gap. Now add in that we know Steph’s gravity and off-ball movement are able to create outlier impact even relative to his impressive box numbers. I think our default assumption with West has to be that it if he was providing a similar kind of impact, his teams would have won more. Not saying it’s impossible that West provided that kind of value and just faced bad luck in key moments, but I do think the playoff success gives this to Curry pretty easily.

That's really lazy. It's not a 1 vs 1 game, so I have no idea how you think you can default to this type of comparison.

With all the variables that goes into basketball I do not understand how our "default assumption" is that if West was as good as Curry, his team would win more. That doesn't make sense.

west lost with a superteam tho

Was that Wests fault?

In 1969 West posted 38/5/7 in the Finals on 49/84 scoring [FG%/FT%].

Egan and Baylor combined for 33 Points/Game on 41% FG.

[iggymcfrack]

When two guys have similar box score profile and we don’t have impact data for one of them due to the era they played in, at some point you have to look at whether their team got it done in the playoffs. Here are the career playoff records for both by series:

Curry: 23-5
West: 16-12

That’s a pretty dramatic gap. Now add in that we know Steph’s gravity and off-ball movement are able to create outlier impact even relative to his impressive box numbers. I think our default assumption with West has to be that it if he was providing a similar kind of impact, his teams would have won more. Not saying it’s impossible that West provided that kind of value and just faced bad luck in key moments, but I do think the playoff success gives this to Curry pretty easily.

That's really lazy. It's not a 1 vs 1 game, so I have no idea how you think you can default to this type of comparison.

With all the variables that goes into basketball I do not understand how our "default assumption" is that if West was as good as Curry, his team would win more. That doesn't make sense.


Not only does it take into account literally zero analysis of a single series mentioned, it does not even mention how the Lakers also had byes so they are not getting credit for eliminating the lowest seed. Now, I figure that we will say "well, even if you give them 6 wins or so they still have a worse record"

But the fact that even in this heavily flawed analysis you have already overlooked that something as simple as byes exist highlight why this is such a poor way to think about the game.


I actually do not get how you arrived that this "has" to be the way you compare them. I mean if you were in middle school, wouldn't that be how you would compare them? Does 12 year old iggymcfrack have the same analytical ability at 2024 iggymcfrack or can he do better?

You want me to give West credit for a playoff series win for being one of 4 teams to get a bye in a 9-team league in '62, '63, '65, and '66? You might as well give the top 6 teams in each conference credit for a playoff series win for avoiding the play-in in 2024. A higher percentage of teams got byes back then than make the playoffs without the play-in now.

[ShaqAttac]

That's really lazy. It's not a 1 vs 1 game, so I have no idea how you think you can default to this type of comparison.

With all the variables that goes into basketball I do not understand how our "default assumption" is that if West was as good as Curry, his team would win more. That doesn't make sense.

west lost with a superteam tho

I don't see how that is relevant, but so has Curry. And Lebron James. And Shaq. And Kobe Bryant. And Larry Bird. And Dr.J. And Wilt Chamberlain. And many others.

everyone you said but wilt win at least one without a superteam and led teams to chips. west won one chip as a 2nd fiddle after his boogeyboi retired despite getting the 2nd best player itl. at least steph didn't lose when he had kd

[ShaqAttac]

That's really lazy. It's not a 1 vs 1 game, so I have no idea how you think you can default to this type of comparison.

With all the variables that goes into basketball I do not understand how our "default assumption" is that if West was as good as Curry, his team would win more. That doesn't make sense.

west lost with a superteam tho

Was that Wests fault?

In 1969 West posted 38/5/7 in the Finals on 49/84 scoring [FG%/FT%].

Egan and Baylor combined for 33 Points/Game on 41% FG.

idk. them nice numbers but at the end of the day west ran into russ when he had little help and was bout to end his career and still lost.

d also was more important than o anyway so idk how much credit we supposed to give nice numbers

[trex_8063]

I tentatively had Curry slightly ahead [literally adjacent] moving into the 2023 Top 100 Project; but it was so close I wasn't married to that order.

This current season will definitively move him ahead of West for me, though. So as of "now", I'm more comfortably going with Curry.

[Rishkar]

This is my 12-19th tier, I currently have these players ordered as
Oscar
West
Bird
Robinson
Curry
Kobe
Malone
Dirk

but they are all really close together for me

[NbaAllDay]

That's really lazy. It's not a 1 vs 1 game, so I have no idea how you think you can default to this type of comparison.

With all the variables that goes into basketball I do not understand how our "default assumption" is that if West was as good as Curry, his team would win more. That doesn't make sense.

west lost with a superteam tho

Was that Wests fault?

In 1969 West posted 38/5/7 in the Finals on 49/84 scoring [FG%/FT%].

Egan and Baylor combined for 33 Points/Game on 41% FG.

The 'Team strength' and 'playoff record' arguments when comparing players always get ridiculously overblown.

It's as if people handwave the literal other 7 players on their team, the org, coaching staff etc etc.

There are ways you can see impact but just saying 'x player has more wins and therefore has better impact' just removes all context.

It's the same lazy narrative surrounding Lebron and 'losing with Superteams' while ignoring he has lost to arguably the greatest team of all time. Apparently that doesn't matter because 'sUpErTeAm' right?

[D.Brasco]

what is even wests arg? curry more rings more mvps and big wowy and rapm. even won without a superteam. west made superteam and only won once

Where's your Laker pride?

[Johnny Tomala]

Jerry West.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Jerry West may have been as much better of a shooter compared to his era as Curry is compared to his era. But the eras are different. If we are time traveling Jerry West to the Current era Jerry West is not a top 10 shooter in the current NBA.

[Cavsfansince84]

Jerry West may have been as much better of a shooter compared to his era as Curry is compared to his era. But the eras are different. If we are time traveling Jerry West to the Current era Jerry West is not a top 10 shooter in the current NBA.

From 10-20ft he might be. Beyond that is kind of silly to argue since guys typically didn't shoot beyond that range back then.

[70sFan]

Jerry West may have been as much better of a shooter compared to his era as Curry is compared to his era.

He's not, Curry is outlier among outliers while it's not clear that West was the best shooter of his era.

Jerry shortens the shooting gap with his defense and slashing ability.

[ShaqAttac]

what is even wests arg? curry more rings more mvps and big wowy and rapm. even won without a superteam. west made superteam and only won once

Where's your Laker pride?

what a statue got to do with anything. how west as good when steph wins more and wins with worse team and has more mvps.

everyone here just posting ppg like russ wasnt the goat without it. if u think west as good then make args instead of excuses.

seem to me people just wanna rate him high coz he played in the 60s.

[ShaqAttac]

west lost with a superteam tho

Was that Wests fault?

In 1969 West posted 38/5/7 in the Finals on 49/84 scoring [FG%/FT%].

Egan and Baylor combined for 33 Points/Game on 41% FG.

The 'Team strength' and 'playoff record' arguments when comparing players always get ridiculously overblown.

It's as if people handwave the literal other 7 players on their team, the org, coaching staff etc etc.

There are ways you can see impact but just saying 'x player has more wins and therefore has better impact' just removes all context.

It's the same lazy narrative surrounding Lebron and 'losing with Superteams' while ignoring he has lost to arguably the greatest team of all time. Apparently that doesn't matter because 'sUpErTeAm' right?

how is bout to retire russ n scraps the greatest team ever. how is wilt kyrie.

steph won more chips without kd than west won with wilt and more chips with kd than west won with wilt and was better for all of them than west was for his but now all the ppl talking bout how d was everything in the 60s wanna act like ppg is more important than winning.

how we calling 15 ppg bill russell the goat coz he won no matter what and then also act like it doesn't matter west lost no matter what. just say u like old players better

[KembaWalker]

1-8 in the 60s gets you a “Mr Clutch” moniker whilst Curry still gets hate here for not coming through in 16 and 19

Jerry West gets heavily boosted around here for his post playing career and team building.

Curry clears Mr. 1-8 easily

[70sFan]

what a statue got to do with anything. how west as good when steph wins more and wins with worse team and has more mvps.

What do you mean by that? I don't think any Curry title team was weaker than West non-title teams and even if you want to push 2022 hard, then Curry faced relatively weak competition that year because of injuries.

[70sFan]

1-8 in the 60s gets you a “Mr Clutch” moniker whilst Curry still gets hate here for not coming through in 16 and 19

Jerry West gets heavily boosted around here for his post playing career and team building.

Curry clears Mr. 1-8 easily

Stay in the General Board please.

[KembaWalker]

1-8 in the 60s gets you a “Mr Clutch” moniker whilst Curry still gets hate here for not coming through in 16 and 19

Jerry West gets heavily boosted around here for his post playing career and team building.

Curry clears Mr. 1-8 easily

Stay in the General Board please.

I mean, there’s no argument at all, Curry is more accomplished in a harder era both team and individually, whilst simultaneously being more skilled and changing the entire sport in a dramatic way. It’s a silly comparison. Watching some grainy 60s pull up jumpers and being like “wow he almost looks like an inefficient 2000s player, amazing” doesn’t do anything for me

[ShaqAttac]

what a statue got to do with anything. how west as good when steph wins more and wins with worse team and has more mvps.

What do you mean by that? I don't think any Curry title team was weaker than West non-title teams and even if you want to push 2022 hard, then Curry faced relatively weak competition that year because of injuries.

you saying the 15 and 22 dubs were less stacked than the 69 lakers? werent the 22 dubs like average without steph?

ig ur right about comp but if russ is still too hard to beat when hes his own coach and his help aint special, idk how we can say west was as likely to win a chip in his era as steph was in his.

[ShaqAttac]

1-8 in the 60s gets you a “Mr Clutch” moniker whilst Curry still gets hate here for not coming through in 16 and 19

Jerry West gets heavily boosted around here for his post playing career and team building.

Curry clears Mr. 1-8 easily

Stay in the General Board please.

he got a point tho: west isnt criticized for his l's anywhere near what steph is and he has a lot more of them.

If steph let bron win in 2018 or 2017 after kd joined he'd never hear the end of it. even when he won, most ppl said kd was better until he proved he could win without him a 2nd time