RealGM 2023 TOp 100 Project - #90 (Bill Sharman)

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Re: RealGM 2023 TOp 100 Project - #90 (Deadline sometime 4/7/24) 

Post#21 » by eminence » Sun Apr 7, 2024 4:22 am

Vote #1: Horace Grant
-Clear best longevity here imo
-Strong/versatile/accomplished #3
-Would've liked to see more of him as a #2, but it is what it is, he didn't disappoint in that role either, and we're in the 90s now

Vote #2: Billy Cunningham
-Longevity to beat out Hagan, peak/prime to beat out Sharman
-Another versatile forward, showing success across roles

Nomination #1: Bob Davies
-Massively accomplished #1 compared to the competition.
-I view him as the first real do everything offensive guard, capable of being the leading scorer or the leading playmaker.

Nomination #2: Jayson Tatum
-I'd prefer a fair number of guys here (namely due to longevity), but among guys with traction he's right there. Strongly considering Nique as well, may switch if I see a push for him. I believe Bosh would be my preferred #2 guy overall currently, but if he's only anyone's alternate there's not much point.
-Tatum has a great all-around game, career to date seems underappreciated to me.
-What I value point towards him having a very high potential future on this list someday (top 30, maybe pushing for top 20?). Will be fun to see if he can reach it.
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Re: RealGM 2023 TOp 100 Project - #90 (Deadline sometime 4/7/24) 

Post#22 » by OldSchoolNoBull » Sun Apr 7, 2024 5:14 am

Induction Vote #1: Bill Sharman

Induction Vote #1: Bill Walton

Voting for Sharman for hopefully the last time. Greatest perimeter scorer of his era, four championships, five finals appearances, came 5th in MVP voting the year before Russell arrived.

Walton is the highest peak here.

Nomination Vote #1: Bob Davies

Nomination Vote #2: James Worthy

I'm a bit frustrated with the the nomination votes ATM, but as an era-relativist, even though I am weary of the lack of data, I'll throw a vote to Davies this round. Maybe if Doc sees that Davies has two first-place votes, he'll give him his vote instead of Tatum.

If you look at all of the not-yet-nominated players we've been talking about, you're not going to find many that have shown up as often or as big as James Worthy. You're just not. They didn't call him "Big Game James" for nothing. These are his series-by-series breakdowns during his best years:

1984 WCQF - 16.7, 6.7r, 3a, 1.7b on 59.5% TS
1984 WCSF - 12.4, 3.4r, 2.6a on 62.7% TS
1984 WCF - 17.3, 6.2r, 3a, 2s on 55.4% TS
1984 Finals - 22.1, 4.4r, 2.3a, 1.4s on 65.1% TS

1985 WCQF - 18.7, 3.3r on 70.9% TS
1985 WCSF - 19.4, 5r, 2a on 60.9% TS
1985 WCF - 22.6, 6.8r, 2a, 1.8s, 1.4b on 72.3% TS
1985 Finals - 23.7, 4.5r, 3.2a on 59.9% TS

1986 WCQF - 16.3, 3r, 4a, 2.3s on 63.4% TS
1986 WCSF - 20.7, 5.3r, 2.5a on 58.1% TS
1986 WCF - 20.2, 4.8r, 3.6a, 1.4s on 54.7% TS

1987 WCQF - 23, 4.7r, 5.3a, 2.3b on 77.8% TS
1987 WCSF - 22, 6.4a, 2.8a, 1.4s, 1.4b on 65.7% TS
1987 WCF - 30.5, 5.8r, 2.3a, 2.3s on 64.1% TS
1987 Finals - 20.7, 5.3r, 4a, 1.7s on 52.8% TS

1988 WCQF - 18.7, 5.3r, 6a, 1.3s on 60.5% TS
1988 WCSF - 18.9, 4.4r, 3.1a, 1.7s on 54% TS
1988 WCF - 23.4, 5.7r, 5a, 1.7s on 60.2% TS
1988 Finals - 22, 7.4r, 4.4a on 54.4% TS

1989 WCQF - 19.7p, 6.3r, 2a, 2.3s on 61.7% TS
1989 WCSF - 27.8, 8r, 1.3a, 1.5s on 70.7% TS
1989 WCF - 25, 8.3r, 4.3a, 1b on 59.4% TS
1989 Finals - 25.5, 4.3r, 3.5a, 1.5b on 53.9% TS

In 14/23 series in those years, he averaged 20+. In 9 of those, he did so on 58% TS or higher.

Out of all 23 of those series, only once did he fall below that season's league TS average(87 Finals).

His 1988 Game 7 was legendary - 36 points, 16 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals on 68.2% FG in a three point win. That won him the Finals MVP.

I also think the 1989 Finals are notable because he did that while missing Magic and Scott for most of the series. That 53.9% TS is only a hair above the league average that year, but I think it's impressive he shot that efficiently on that volume against the 89 Pistons defense while pretty much playing alone out there for much of the series.

You can chalk his consistency and excellence in the playoffs up to 'he played with Magic and Kareem', but as far as #2/#3 options go, if Grant is on the ballot, and if Parish got in, and if Parker got in, and if Marion got in, there is really no reason Worthy shouldn't get in unless his longevity bothers you that much(and he still narrowly passed the 30k mark).
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Re: RealGM 2023 TOp 100 Project - #90 (Deadline sometime 4/7/24) 

Post#23 » by Clyde Frazier » Sun Apr 7, 2024 11:03 am

Vote 1 - Bill Sharman
Vote 2 - Billy Cunningham
Nomination 1 - Jerry Lucas
Nomination 2 - Gus Williams


I'm impressed Sharman's longevity as well as efficiency relative to his era. Scoring as efficiently as he did may have been even more difficult given the celtics' gameplan of getting up as many shots as possible. Solid and consistent contributor to multiple celtics championship teams. One of the more accomplished guards of his era with 7 all NBA selections and 5th and 7th place MVP finishes.
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Re: RealGM 2023 TOp 100 Project - #90 (Deadline sometime 4/7/24) 

Post#24 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Apr 7, 2024 5:15 pm

Personal Vote:

Induction Vote 1: Bill Sharman
Induction Vote 2: Cliff Hagan


Alright, voting for the same two guys, but with Sharman emerging as a top candidate this time I'll give him the ceremonial top spot. No great motivation to separate between the two but both remain the top candidates who are both great champions and have solid longevity.

Nomination Vote 1: Bob Davies
Nomination Vote 2: Jayson Tatum


Well, hope 'bout that? Alright, I'm on the Davies bandwagon now. Clear cut top player left from the first era of the NBA, while showing signs of superiority compared to his analogue of the second generation (Cousy).
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Re: RealGM 2023 TOp 100 Project - #90 (Deadline sometime 4/7/24) 

Post#25 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Apr 7, 2024 5:24 pm

Tallies:

Induction !:

Cunningham - 2 (Samurai, AEnigma)
Sharman - 5 (trelos, beast, OSNB, Clyde, Doc)
Walton - 2 (LA Bird, Ohayo)
Grant - 3 (falco, trex, eminence)

No majority. Going to runoff between Sharman & Grant:

Sharman - 1 (Samurai)
Grant - 1 (Ohayo)
neither - 2 (AEnigma, LA Bird)

Bill Sharman 6, Horace Grant 4
Bill Sharman is Inducted at #90.
Image

Nomination 1:

Lucas - 2 (Samurai, Clyde)
Davies - 5 (AEnigma, LA Bird, eminence, OSNB, Doc)
Porter - 1 (trelos)
Tatum - 1 (beast)
Doncic - 2 (Ohayo, falco)
Nique - 1 (trex)

No majority, but 2nd votes have no effect.

Bob Davies 5, Jerry Lucas 2, Luka Doncic 2
Bob Davies is added to Nominee list.
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Re: RealGM 2023 TOp 100 Project - #90 (Bill Sharman) 

Post#26 » by Narigo » Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:48 am

I'm surprised Grant Hill, Nique, and English aren't being considered
Narigo's Fantasy Team

PG: Damian Lillard
SG: Sidney Moncrief
SF:
PF: James Worthy
C: Tim Duncan

BE: Robert Horry
BE:
BE:

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