2023-24 RealGM All-Season Awards Discussion Thread

[Doctor MJ]

NBA releases their finalists for each award (other than EOY), what do you think? Who should be there instead?

MVP Luka / SGA / Jokic
DPOY Bam / Gobert / Wemby
ROY Chet / Miller / Wemby
MIP Maxey / Sengun / White
6MOY Monk / Portis / Reid
COY Daigneault / Finch / Mosley

(Also their Clutch award which we won't be voting on, but finalists are Curry / DeRozan / SGA)

[Colbinii]

A bit weird Joe Mazzulla isn't there, considering how much better the Celtics are than anyone else, but I get it.

All the choices are fine. Seems like a well-scripted year where all those finalists make sense.

[The-Power]

NBA releases their finalists for each award (other than EOY), what do you think? Who should be there instead?

MVP Luka / SGA / Jokic
DPOY Bam / Gobert / Wemby
ROY Chet / Miller / Wemby
MIP Maxey / Sengun / White
6MOY Monk / Portis / Reid
COY Daigneault / Finch / Mosley

(Also their Clutch award which we won't be voting on, but finalists are Curry / DeRozan / SGA)

Fine choices, I think, except for 6MOY where it seems pretty obvious that voters tend to overly rely on simplistic heuristics (PPG, reputation) to make their choices. Understandable to some extent because who really pays close attention to this category throughout the season? At the same time, if you are a voter I should be able to expect from you to try at least a little harder here.

[eminence]

NBA releases their finalists for each award (other than EOY), what do you think? Who should be there instead?

MVP Luka / SGA / Jokic
DPOY Bam / Gobert / Wemby
ROY Chet / Miller / Wemby
MIP Maxey / Sengun / White
6MOY Monk / Portis / Reid
COY Daigneault / Finch / Mosley

(Also their Clutch award which we won't be voting on, but finalists are Curry / DeRozan / SGA)

Fine choices, I think, except for 6MOY where it seems pretty obvious that voters tend to overly rely on simplistic heuristics (PPG, reputation) to make their choices. Understandable to some extent because who really pays close attention to this category throughout the season? At the same time, if you are a voter I should be able to expect from you to try at least a little harder here.

Which 6th men would you be looking at instead? Naz/Monk seem quite reasonable to me, and Portis is at least a good bench player. Bogdan seems a reasonable addition. Horford and Hart are ineligible.

[The-Power]

NBA releases their finalists for each award (other than EOY), what do you think? Who should be there instead?

MVP Luka / SGA / Jokic
DPOY Bam / Gobert / Wemby
ROY Chet / Miller / Wemby
MIP Maxey / Sengun / White
6MOY Monk / Portis / Reid
COY Daigneault / Finch / Mosley

(Also their Clutch award which we won't be voting on, but finalists are Curry / DeRozan / SGA)

Fine choices, I think, except for 6MOY where it seems pretty obvious that voters tend to overly rely on simplistic heuristics (PPG, reputation) to make their choices. Understandable to some extent because who really pays close attention to this category throughout the season? At the same time, if you are a voter I should be able to expect from you to try at least a little harder here.

Which 6th men would you be looking at instead? Naz/Monk seem quite reasonable to me, and Portis is at least a good bench player. Bogdan seems a reasonable addition. Horford and Hart are ineligible.

I elaborated a bit on this in a previous post in this thread:

Spoiler:

I was looking at legitimate 6MOY candidates because it's a tough award for me this season. Here's who I ended up with:

– Naz Reid
– Trey Murphy
– Bogdan Bogdanovic
– TJ McConnell
– Dante Exum

Other players I considered were Russell Westbrook, Norman Powell, Bobby Portis, Isaiah Joe, Payton Pritchard, Malik Monk, Amen Thompson, Ayo Dosunmu, Andre Drummond and Brandin Podziemski – but there are different reasons for each player that make me question whether they had the same kind of impact on their respective teams as the players I listed above.

Note that I only looked at players currently eligible, so there may still be changes (most notably Al Horford becoming eligible). Also note that to me, 6MOY is to a large part about players who immediately change the dynamics of the game to the positive for their team when they enter the court, and/or about players who manage to cover well for star players helping their teams not miss much of their beat. Especially the former part makes me heavily consider on/off numbers. Three of the five players above really stand out in that regard (Murphy, Bogdanovic, Exum) while the other two admirably helped their team cover for the absences and/or minutes on the bench of their respective team's star players (Reid and McConnell, with the latter also having a notably positive plus-minus signal and the former helping to keep his team's performance when replacing someone from the starting line-up).

Any thoughts, and am I missing someone?

I also don't feel particularly strongly about the candidates. I don't think it's impossible to make a case for each of the finalists that is based on more than simplistic heuristics. But considering that the results pretty much match what you would get if you had just looked at PPG and reputation, I doubt most voters' votes are based on more than just that.

[eminence]

Brief thoughts on their picks for MVP/DPOY/ROY

MVP:
-Would've rather had Tatum than Luka top 3, but they're all in my top 4, no real complaints there.
-Jokic is my pick to win it and who I expect to win it, but I'd also be alright with SGA winning it.

DPOY:
-It should be Gobert, and it should be unanimous (it's not).
-Bam is my 2nd pick, glad he's a finalist.
-Not sure who I'd go with for 3rd, Wemby is a reasonable pick.

ROY:
-No thoughts on who the 3rd guy should be. It's 1/2 and a huge gap.
-I'm in sacrilege territory, but I still think Chet had the better season (Wemby finished strong and is a reasonable pick, and has more upside).
-But for this season, I really think Chet had a better year. 2nd best player on the #2 overall seed is no joke. Notably ahead of Wemby as an offensive player currently (yes, Wemby has otherworldly highlights).

[Doctor MJ]

So, 6th man is an award where I really struggle to get behind candidates on weak teams. Kinda one of those things: If you're a candidate on a weak team, you should probably be starting, and giving the nod to a franchise that's going about things backwards is tough.

With this in mind, this is me just getting guys in mind who are currently eligible from quality teams:

Bos - Pritchard is biggest minute guy currently eligible, Horford seems like he will become eligible after the post-season.
OKC - Cason or Isaiah
Den - Reggie is clearly the traditional candidate here.
Min - Naz is the guy here, and my initial hunch as the guy I'd vote for right now.
LAC - Powell or Westbrook
NYK - McBride?
Dal - Hardaway seems like the guy you'd pick if you wanted to pick someone.
Mil - Portis is the clear choice on the team...but it's not like the team's a runaway success with him out there.
Phx - Gordon I suppose
Cle - LeVert?

Cutting it off there and mentioning specific other guys:

Monk - in the end, he's a lose-when-he's-on-the-court guy with a negative on/off on a team that didn't make the playoffs. Frankly kinda hard for me to take him seriously for this award.

Podz - had a very nice rookie season, eligible for 6MOY and the clear guy for it minutes-wise on the Warriors, who granted, didn't make the playoffs.

Cole - Anthony seems like guy here for the Magic, who truly were a successful team whenever Paolo played bench.

Obi - candidate for the Pacers.

Buddy - could become eligible depending on the playoffs.

Jaquez - another rookie with a damn good season who is 6MOY eligible

Ayo - I guess, from the Bulls.

Bogdan - and here we have the guy I'm really thinking of when I talk about guys who seem like strong 6MOY candidates on teams that are absolutely going nowhere because of their starting unit.

My gut feeling here is that Naz is the leader in the clubhouse going into the playoffs, with Horford being the biggest looming threat.

[Doctor MJ]

Brief thoughts on their picks for MVP/DPOY/ROY

MVP:
-Would've rather had Tatum than Luka top 3, but they're all in my top 4, no real complaints there.
-Jokic is my pick to win it and who I expect to win it, but I'd also be alright with SGA winning it.

DPOY:
-It should be Gobert, and it should be unanimous (it's not).
-Bam is my 2nd pick, glad he's a finalist.
-Not sure who I'd go with for 3rd, Wemby is a reasonable pick.

ROY:
-No thoughts on who the 3rd guy should be. It's 1/2 and a huge gap.
-I'm in sacrilege territory, but I still think Chet had the better season (Wemby finished strong and is a reasonable pick, and has more upside).
-But for this season, I really think Chet had a better year. 2nd best player on the #2 overall seed is no joke. Notably ahead of Wemby as an offensive player currently (yes, Wemby has otherworldly highlights).

So just piggy backing on your thoughts here:

- I think Tatum continues to lurk as a guy likely to make Top 5 when all is said and done as he's done in previous years despite the lack of enthusiasm for him to take the actual #1 spot.
- Luka has a path some envision with crystal clarity that would take him to the #1 spot...on the other and, if the Mavs just flame out in the first round - despite that being what seeds would suggest is chalk - I expect it will hurt his ranking here.

- I see Gobert as the RS DPOY lock, but we'll see how the playoffs go. I'm not sure who would surpass him, but if the Wolves end up flaming out with an awful DRtg, he'll be vulnerable. Nice Game 1 though for the Wolves.
- We all respect Bam, but short of them upsetting the Celtics, I feel like he'll be out of mind when all is said and done.
- Wemby's DPOY candidacy is an interesting one. Definitely has the potential to look ridiculous in the near future if in subsequent years he has similar defensive box score but is leading elite DRtgs. It's good that he's showing signs of his team's DRtg being good when he's on the floor...on the other hand, when your team is such a walkover like the Spurs were this year, even a good DRtg when you're on the floor doesn't make me feel like opposing teams truly gave their best and failed against you.

- Wemby's ROY candidacy I have less concerns about because of the way I see the award with an eye toward the future. Feels like most agree that Chet was the more effective player for the first couple months and then Wemby surpassed him. To the extent I concur with this when I place my vote, I expect to side with Wemby.
- I will say that when a rookie flirts with all-star status like Chet did this year, this leaves with a general reluctance to vote for anyone over him for ROY even if they do have a higher upside. But that goes out the window if I actually think the higher upside guy was playing better the latte half of the year.
- For the 3rd spot, incidentally, I'm inclined to side with Miller, but feel like shouting out Jaquez & Podz who were more valuable in more limited roles.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

So, 6th man is an award where I really struggle to get behind candidates on weak teams. Kinda one of those things: If you're a candidate on a weak team, you should probably be starting, and giving the nod to a franchise that's going about things backwards is tough.

With this in mind, this is me just getting guys in mind who are currently eligible from quality teams:

Bos - Pritchard is biggest minute guy currently eligible, Horford seems like he will become eligible after the post-season.
OKC - Cason or Isaiah
Den - Reggie is clearly the traditional candidate here.
Min - Naz is the guy here, and my initial hunch as the guy I'd vote for right now.
LAC - Powell or Westbrook
NYK - McBride?
Dal - Hardaway seems like the guy you'd pick if you wanted to pick someone.
Mil - Portis is the clear choice on the team...but it's not like the team's a runaway success with him out there.
Phx - Gordon I suppose
Cle - LeVert?

Cutting it off there and mentioning specific other guys:

Monk - in the end, he's a lose-when-he's-on-the-court guy with a negative on/off on a team that didn't make the playoffs. Frankly kinda hard for me to take him seriously for this award.

Podz - had a very nice rookie season, eligible for 6MOY and the clear guy for it minutes-wise on the Warriors, who granted, didn't make the playoffs.

Cole - Anthony seems like guy here for the Magic, who truly were a successful team whenever Paolo played bench.

Obi - candidate for the Pacers.

Buddy - could become eligible depending on the playoffs.

Jaquez - another rookie with a damn good season who is 6MOY eligible

Ayo - I guess, from the Bulls.

Bogdan - and here we have the guy I'm really thinking of when I talk about guys who seem like strong 6MOY candidates on teams that are absolutely going nowhere because of their starting unit.

My gut feeling here is that Naz is the leader in the clubhouse going into the playoffs, with Horford being the biggest looming threat.

I haven't looked too deeply yet, but based on what I have looked at - and it's a bit unusual for me to say this because I've historically not been as high on him as others - I'm a bit bullish on Westbrook. It's not just the solid production, but it's that he had to accept the role. I remember when Harden was acquired back in October, the immediate question was what the rotation would be, who would start, etc. I recall the consensus being that Harden starting and Westbrook coming off the bench made the most basketball sense, but that Westbrook may not like that(he was the starter for the Clippers last season after all, after coming off the bench for the Lakers pre-trade). But he took it in stride, no complaints at all, and he's produced well. He unselfishly did what was best for the team.

I also think that his value to the team is bigger than the numbers in light of the team's makeup and injury issues. With him running the second unit they don't have to worry about the team falling apart when Harden sits. And when any of the big three is out, he can step up and be the #3 guy. Look at what he did yesterday with Kawhi out.

Also, FWIW, he's +1.4 on/off for the RS(some of the candidates, like Reid and Portis, sport negative on/offs).

Obviously Horford is also on my radar if he ends up qualifying.

[The-Power]

[...]

Thoughts on McConnell and especially Murphy? Two key players on quality teams who are both eligible for our* 6MOY award. *Or is Murphy out because he missed the 65 games threshold (even though his total minutes are still pretty solid for 6MOY candidates because of high MPG)?

I'll have to retract my previous complaint regarding the voters a bit, however. I forgot about the NBA's eligibility criteria for a moment which render some of my contenders ineligible. I still think McConnell and Bogdan deserved serious consideration and potentially a top 3 finish but it is easier for me to get on board with the finalists recalling the new GP threshold.

[eminence]

[...]

Thoughts on McConnell and especially Murphy? Two key players on quality teams who are both eligible for our* 6MOY award. *Or is Murphy out because he missed the 65 games threshold (even though his total minutes are still pretty solid for 6MOY candidates because of high MPG)?

I'll have to retract my previous complaint regarding the voters a bit, however. I forgot about the NBA's eligibility criteria for a moment which render some of my contenders ineligible. I still think McConnell and Bogdan deserved serious consideration and potentially a top 3 finish but it is easier for me to get on board with the finalists recalling the new GP threshold.

I don't believe the 65 game requirement applies to 6MOY (for the NBA, uncertain here). So complain to your hearts content.

Murphy in particular is a good shout.

[Bergmaniac]

Isaac was the Magic's best bench player by a country mile this season and if there isn't a 65 game requirement for the award (my googling was inconclusive on that), a legit 6th man year candidate in a world where voters care about actual impact and not just PPG . Cole Anthony wasn't even second best (he was pretty dreadful for half the season), Mo Wagner was clearly better than him.

[eminence]

Info from here: https://sports.yahoo.com/explaining-nbas-65-game-rule-030826797.html

[Doctor MJ]

So I'll just state definitively:

We will not be honoring the 65 game rule here.

Missing games does matter, but it will be up to our voters to decide how.

[Doctor MJ]

Isaac was the Magic's best bench player by a country mile this season and if there isn't a 65 game requirement for the award (my googling was inconclusive on that), a legit 6th man year candidate in a world where voters care about actual impact and not just PPG . Cole Anthony wasn't even second best (he was pretty dreadful for half the season), Mo Wagner was clearly better than him.

He'll be eligible for our award, though I'll say personally I don't think he has a shot for my ballot unless he and the Magic do something amazing in the playoffs that makes me feel like him playing so little in the regular season doesn't matter that much to me.

[Doctor MJ]

[...]

Thoughts on McConnell and especially Murphy? Two key players on quality teams who are both eligible for our* 6MOY award. *Or is Murphy out because he missed the 65 games threshold (even though his total minutes are still pretty solid for 6MOY candidates because of high MPG)?

I'll have to retract my previous complaint regarding the voters a bit, however. I forgot about the NBA's eligibility criteria for a moment which render some of my contenders ineligible. I still think McConnell and Bogdan deserved serious consideration and potentially a top 3 finish but it is easier for me to get on board with the finalists recalling the new GP threshold.

I'm willing to listen to arguments for McConnell. He's a quality player, but didn't really play enough to get in the obvious 6th man category.

Trey Murphy is a really good call.

[Dutchball97]

I'm still not entirely sure how much I want to weigh the play-offs for the ROY award. For the other awards players are pretty much immediately eliminated from my ballots if they miss the post-season or they do get there and play significantly worse than expected but for ROY it doens't feel entirely fair considering the top picks usually go to the worst teams.

When the season ended I had Wemby 1st with Chet not far, though still clearly, behind in 2nd but can I justify not going with Chet as my ROY if he plays a big role in a deep run for the Thunder when any comment about how Wembanyama would fare in the post-season would be pure speculation?

The 3rd spot if even tougher imo as I would've likely gone with Amen Thompson at the end of the regular season (I don't consider Miller for the award as I look at how good their rookie season is and am not looking forward all that much as that, again, would be pure speculation) but maybe someone like James Jaquez jr, Derrick Lively or Cason Wallace could do just enough in the post-season to make the difference.

[OhayoKD]

I think Gobert has cemented my dpoy vote and I'll have to seriously consider giving him a top 5 ballot if Minesotta keeps playing like this.

[eminence]

Suns are out, no contenders for POY. Probably needed Booker or Durant to play at that fringe top 5 level to do anything this season.

Wolves looked great, Ant/Rudy certainly still alive for top 5.

[Fundamentals21]

Suns were playing with some random pieces, the team itself doesn't look good enough to contend. Durant is old and Beal is getting PAID for doing nothing at all.

The Kawhi, Giannis and Lillard stories are disappointing. Teams need to pace these guys well so they actually play in the playoffs.