Should Luka win MVP?

ShaqAttac · Post #1 » by **ShaqAttac** » Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:39 pm

He won 50 even tho all his teammates been injured

They were best team itw after trade

They win 60 when they play they starters

Luka putting up crazy numbers with not much help

Is Luka really not the most valuable player this yr?

Amare_1_Knicks · Post #2 » by **Amare_1_Knicks** » Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:51 pm

If have him 3rd on my list, at most — behind Jokic (1) and Shai (2) . I’m not a fan of giving MVP’s to guys 4th seed and down unless there’s some meaningful extenuating circumstance.. and even then he’d have to outdo the guys ahead of him statistically by a good margin, which I don’t think he has.

He almost missed 12 games, whereas by comparison, Jokic missed 3 and Shain missed 7. I think that still matters.

ShaqAttac · Post #3 » by **ShaqAttac** » Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:15 pm

Amare_1_Knicks wrote:If have him 3rd on my list, at most — behind Jokic (1) and Shai (2) . I’m not a fan of giving MVP’s to guys 4th seed and down unless there’s some meaningful extenuating circumstance.. and even then he’d have to outdo the guys ahead of him statistically by a good margin, which I don’t think he has.

He almost missed 12 games, whereas by comparison, Jokic missed 3 and Shain missed 7. I think that still matters.

so Jokic gets mvp when he cant even win 50 as a 6th seed but luka cant get it when he wins 50 as a 5th seed?

why not just give it to tatum then.

Amare_1_Knicks · Post #4 » by **Amare_1_Knicks** » Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:36 pm

ShaqAttac wrote:
Amare_1_Knicks wrote:If have him 3rd on my list, at most — behind Jokic (1) and Shai (2) . I’m not a fan of giving MVP’s to guys 4th seed and down unless there’s some meaningful extenuating circumstance.. and even then he’d have to outdo the guys ahead of him statistically by a good margin, which I don’t think he has.

He almost missed 12 games, whereas by comparison, Jokic missed 3 and Shain missed 7. I think that still matters.

so Jokic gets mvp when he cant even win 50 as a 6th seed but luka cant get it when he wins 50 as a 5th seed?

why not just give it to tatum then.

Again, extenuating circumstances for Jokic that year. Both Murray and Porter were out for the entire season essentially and the Nuggets overachieved on the back of the season he had. No one on any of the teams ahead of him really had a compelling case that year either (maybe Luka, but again, he missed 17 games which hurts his case).

Not even knocking Luka; he’s clearly an mvp caliber player, I just don’t see this as his year. There are two guys on teams that are 7 games ahead of his team, respectively who also had wondrous, MVP quality seasons.

hagredionis · Post #5 » by **hagredionis** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:09 am

MVP is an individual award not a team award.

Luka is:
1st PPG
2nd APG
top 10 defensive RPG
top 10 in steals per game
1st in total points
2nd in total assists
1st among all guards in RPG
1st in 45 points games
1st in 40 points games
1st in 35 points games
1st in +30 points triple doubles
the first ever 33 ppg / 9 asp / 9 rpg season in the history of the NBA
record for most consecutive 30 point triple-doubles ever in the history of the NBA
most PPG + RPG + APG in the last 50 years
a historical 73 point game, 4th highest ever in the history of the NBA
broke the Mavs franchise record for a single season points scored, a record which stood for 40 years
Most Player of the Month awards
Most Player of the Week awards

Colbinii · Post #6 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:22 am

hagredionis wrote:MVP is an individual award not a team award.

Luka is:
1st PPG
2nd APG
top 10 defensive RPG
top 10 in steals per game
1st in total points
2nd in total assists
1st among all guards in RPG
1st in 45 points games
1st in 40 points games
1st in 35 points games
1st in +30 points triple doubles
the first ever 33 ppg / 9 asp / 9 rpg season in the history of the NBA
record for most consecutive 30 point triple-doubles ever in the history of the NBA
most PPG + RPG + APG in the last 50 years
a historical 73 point game, 4th highest ever in the history of the NBA
broke the Mavs franchise record for a single season points scored, a record which stood for 40 years
Most Player of the Month awards
Most Player of the Week awards

Cool.

Was he actually better than Jokic? Was he actually better than SGA?

MVP has NEVER been an individual award. Nobody in their right mind thought Rose was better than LeBron in the 2011 season, for example.

There isn't a definition for what MVP means or is. But one thing it has historically been as a means to award one of the best players on the best team(s).

web123888 · Post #7 » by **web123888** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:36 am

Would not be a wrong choice. Very close to Jokic. Idk why Tatum’s name ever gets brought up in these discussions. He isn’t on the same planet as Doncic.

picko · Post #8 » by **picko** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:38 am

I don't see any compelling reason to award him the MVP over Jokic or SGA.

dygaction · Post #9 » by **dygaction** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:56 am

Colbinii wrote:
hagredionis wrote:MVP is an individual award not a team award.

Luka is:
1st PPG
2nd APG
top 10 defensive RPG
top 10 in steals per game
1st in total points
2nd in total assists
1st among all guards in RPG
1st in 45 points games
1st in 40 points games
1st in 35 points games
1st in +30 points triple doubles
the first ever 33 ppg / 9 asp / 9 rpg season in the history of the NBA
record for most consecutive 30 point triple-doubles ever in the history of the NBA
most PPG + RPG + APG in the last 50 years
a historical 73 point game, 4th highest ever in the history of the NBA
broke the Mavs franchise record for a single season points scored, a record which stood for 40 years
Most Player of the Month awards
Most Player of the Week awards

Cool.

Was he actually better than Jokic? Was he actually better than SGA?

MVP has NEVER been an individual award. Nobody in their right mind thought Rose was better than LeBron in the 2011 season, for example.

There isn't a definition for what MVP means or is. But one thing it has historically been as a means to award one of the best players on the best team(s).

Except Russ and Jokic won was #6 in the West, #10 and #11 in the league, whereas Luka is #5 in the west and #6 in the league this year.

rk2023 · Post #10 » by **rk2023** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:09 am

Luka was actually better than SGA, yes.

Colbinii · Post #11 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:10 am

dygaction wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
hagredionis wrote:MVP is an individual award not a team award.

Luka is:
1st PPG
2nd APG
top 10 defensive RPG
top 10 in steals per game
1st in total points
2nd in total assists
1st among all guards in RPG
1st in 45 points games
1st in 40 points games
1st in 35 points games
1st in +30 points triple doubles
the first ever 33 ppg / 9 asp / 9 rpg season in the history of the NBA
record for most consecutive 30 point triple-doubles ever in the history of the NBA
most PPG + RPG + APG in the last 50 years
a historical 73 point game, 4th highest ever in the history of the NBA
broke the Mavs franchise record for a single season points scored, a record which stood for 40 years
Most Player of the Month awards
Most Player of the Week awards

Cool.

Was he actually better than Jokic? Was he actually better than SGA?

MVP has NEVER been an individual award. Nobody in their right mind thought Rose was better than LeBron in the 2011 season, for example.

There isn't a definition for what MVP means or is. But one thing it has historically been as a means to award one of the best players on the best team(s).

Except Russ and Jokic won was #6 in the West, #10 and #11 in the league, whereas Luka is #5 in the west and #6 in the league this year.

Narrative. Ding ding ding.

Westbrook had a massive narrative around his season.

OhayoKD · Post #12 » by **OhayoKD** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:19 am

Colbinii wrote:
hagredionis wrote:MVP is an individual award not a team award.

Luka is:
1st PPG
2nd APG
top 10 defensive RPG
top 10 in steals per game
1st in total points
2nd in total assists
1st among all guards in RPG
1st in 45 points games
1st in 40 points games
1st in 35 points games
1st in +30 points triple doubles
the first ever 33 ppg / 9 asp / 9 rpg season in the history of the NBA
record for most consecutive 30 point triple-doubles ever in the history of the NBA
most PPG + RPG + APG in the last 50 years
a historical 73 point game, 4th highest ever in the history of the NBA
broke the Mavs franchise record for a single season points scored, a record which stood for 40 years
Most Player of the Month awards
Most Player of the Week awards

Cool.

Was he actually better than Jokic? Was he actually better than SGA?

MVP has NEVER been an individual award. Nobody in their right mind thought Rose was better than LeBron in the 2011 season, for example.

There isn't a definition for what MVP means or is. But one thing it has historically been as a means to award one of the best players on the best team(s).

He was better than both but that aside,

the "historical precedent" established by both of Jokic's MVP wins would support Luka winning this year's.

Colbinii · Post #13 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:27 am

OhayoKD wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
hagredionis wrote:MVP is an individual award not a team award.

Luka is:
1st PPG
2nd APG
top 10 defensive RPG
top 10 in steals per game
1st in total points
2nd in total assists
1st among all guards in RPG
1st in 45 points games
1st in 40 points games
1st in 35 points games
1st in +30 points triple doubles
the first ever 33 ppg / 9 asp / 9 rpg season in the history of the NBA
record for most consecutive 30 point triple-doubles ever in the history of the NBA
most PPG + RPG + APG in the last 50 years
a historical 73 point game, 4th highest ever in the history of the NBA
broke the Mavs franchise record for a single season points scored, a record which stood for 40 years
Most Player of the Month awards
Most Player of the Week awards

Cool.

Was he actually better than Jokic? Was he actually better than SGA?

MVP has NEVER been an individual award. Nobody in their right mind thought Rose was better than LeBron in the 2011 season, for example.

There isn't a definition for what MVP means or is. But one thing it has historically been as a means to award one of the best players on the best team(s).

He was better than both but that aside,

the "historical precedent" established by both of Jokic's MVP wins would support Luka winning this year's.

Even if you strictly went on goodness using RAPM, Jokic played 13% more games than Luka.

ardee · Post #14 » by **ardee** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:47 am

No, because Jokic exists.

He is a clear no. 2 for me for this season though, Mavs finished the season 24-7 (not counting the last two losses with their main guys resting).

Up-And-Coming · Post #15 » by **Up-And-Coming** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:19 am

I have him 2nd behind Jokic.

Jokic
Doncic
SGA

RCM88x · Post #16 » by **RCM88x** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 11:50 am

The-Power · Post #17 » by **The-Power** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:10 pm

Up-And-Coming wrote:I have him 2nd behind Jokic.

Jokic
Doncic
SGA

Swap SGA and Luka and that's my list. I think SGA is getting severely underrated at this point.

hagredionis · Post #18 » by **hagredionis** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 1:57 pm

The-Power wrote:
Up-And-Coming wrote:I have him 2nd behind Jokic.

Jokic
Doncic
SGA

Swap SGA and Luka and that's my list. I think SGA is getting severely underrated at this point.

How is SGA ahead of Luka?
ppg Luka 33.9 / SGA 30.1
apg Luka 9.8 / SGA 6.2
rpg Luka 9.2 / SGA 5.5
eFG% Luka .573 / SGA .567

The Mavs also had many players missing games due to injuries. (Irving 24, Lively 27, J.Green 25, Kleber 39 and Exum 27 games).

Colbinii · Post #19 » by **Colbinii** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 3:07 pm

hagredionis wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Up-And-Coming wrote:I have him 2nd behind Jokic.

Jokic
Doncic
SGA

Swap SGA and Luka and that's my list. I think SGA is getting severely underrated at this point.

How is SGA ahead of Luka?
ppg Luka 33.9 / SGA 30.1
apg Luka 9.8 / SGA 6.2
rpg Luka 9.2 / SGA 5.5
eFG% Luka .573 / SGA .567

Why are you just listing a few stats Luka beats SGA at?

WS Luka 12.2 / SGA 14.6
spg Luka 1.4 / SGA 2.0
TS% Luka 61.7 / SGA 63.6
EPM Luka +7.9 [3rd in NBA] / SGA +8.8 [2nd in NBA]
TS+ Luka 143.3 / SGA 197.9

And how about the players games and minutes?

Luka 70 Games, 2624 Minutes
SGA 75 Games, 2553 Minutes [Sat lots of 4th quarters since he was a +11.1 On-Court :wink:

The Mavs also had many players missing games due to injuries. (Irving 24, Lively 27, J.Green 25, Kleber 39 and Exum 27 games).

STOP THE COUNT! Dante Exum, great guy. Wonderful guy. good friend. known him for many years. went to school with his dad. knew his family. good guy. great guy. he does big things. he is almost the best player on the mavericks, almost.

The-Power · Post #20 » by **The-Power** » Tue Apr 16, 2024 3:39 pm

hagredionis wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Up-And-Coming wrote:I have him 2nd behind Jokic.

Jokic
Doncic
SGA

Swap SGA and Luka and that's my list. I think SGA is getting severely underrated at this point.

How is SGA ahead of Luka?
ppg Luka 33.9 / SGA 30.1
apg Luka 9.8 / SGA 6.2
rpg Luka 9.2 / SGA 5.5
eFG% Luka .573 / SGA .567

The Mavs also had many players missing games due to injuries. (Irving 24, Lively 27, J.Green 25, Kleber 39 and Exum 27 games).

The use of eFG% instead of FG% (which would at least be consistent with the focus on raw numbers) or TS% (which would be a more accurate depiction of scoring efficiency) gives the entire game away and turns this post from one demonstrating an incredibly shallow look at basketball to one that is obviously just biased and agenda-driven. I don't think any conversation with you on this topic can be fruitful under these conditions.