The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Playoffs & Off-Season Thread -(NO PERSONAL ATTACKS & BAITING)

[RRR3]

Not challenging a potential series changing call means you coached poorly. People have been fired for less. I'm truly baffled you're defending Ham at this point.

[dcstanley]

How did people talk themselves into thinking that Lebron, AD, several mediocre starters and a bad coach could beat the Nuggets? This same fever happened last year and it didn't make anymore sense then either.

The Lakers have led for 67 minutes out of a total of 96 minutes played so far. They led for all but 44 seconds in game 2.

They don't have enough to win the series but the series should absolutely be tied heading back to LA.

[GSP]

As bad as Ham is i think canning Vogel was the right move for La even tho he got scapegoated a little w/ Russ fit

He is one of the worst offensive coaches out there he has a 90s playbook out there hes about to get fired again. He is a glorified defensive assistant

[nzahir]

How did people talk themselves into thinking that Lebron, AD, several mediocre starters and a bad coach could beat the Nuggets? This same fever happened last year and it didn't make anymore sense then either.

B/c we are wishful lol

But also were up 15 and 20 the last 2 games on the road and the refs favoring Denver....

[RRR3]

As bad as Ham is i think canning Vogel was the right move for La even tho he got scapegoated a little w/ Russ fit

He is one of the worst offensive coaches out there he has a 90s playbook out there

Vogel is not a good coach and I detested him, but compared to Ham? At least he knows to guard the 3PT line lol

[nzahir]

I wanna say that with better coaching and slightly better supporting cast AD and Bron still good to compete against the Nuggets, but at the same time they lost 10 times in a row. IDK man...Almost every game looks so close, but LAL bleeds too much on the edges

Thats the crazy part

I feel like we aren't far apart

But we had 3.5 guys show up tonight

Vincent has been a bust. Defense is not bad, but he fouls a lot, and he is useless on offense rn
Rui has been horrible these 2 games and looks scared. Turned down a decent 3. Not the same guy in the reg season
Reaves as struggled with KCP on offense, bt at least playing solid D
Hayes is horrible, low iq. Jokic is a horrible matchup for low IQ thin C.

Lets see how the rest of the series goes.

How it goes determines what this team needs to do this summer or what Bron needs to do

If its a sweep, they need to make a big change or Bron needs to walk

I mean, can they get better versions of Dlo/Reaves/Rui and a real back up big? Seems unrealistic. 3 star model with Young won't work, imo. So it's kinda hopeless againt the Nuggets. Against any other team they have a real shot(maybe not Boston)

Who are better versions of Dlo, Reaves, and Rui in your eyes that are realistic?

Hoping for a Mavs implosion so maybe Kyrie wants out

I think Trae makes sense but a big contract and would cost a good amount. Much rather Donovan Mitchell if possible since he is a better defender

[Todeasy]

I’m not particularly high on Malone (admittedly I don’t scrutinize his coaching that closely but the way he defended Booker last year and the fact that he took forever to realize Jokic>Nurkic left me with a sour taste in my mouth) but I think he’s obviously better than Ham. But would a coaching switch be enough for the Lakers to overcome Denver’s roster? I think with relatively even coaches Denver wins but Ham frequently sabotages his own team.

Just a curiosity obviously not something that’s gonna happen

I say it wouldn't swap the outcome in the Lakers favor, but that's more out of me not being sure how much of the issues we're seeing with the team are a ham centric issue, or a general staff failure. If you completely swapped their staffs out would it be enough to sway the outcome of the series? Honestly maybe, and that's somewhat depressing to consider.

[RRR3]

I’m not particularly high on Malone (admittedly I don’t scrutinize his coaching that closely but the way he defended Booker last year and the fact that he took forever to realize Jokic>Nurkic left me with a sour taste in my mouth) but I think he’s obviously better than Ham. But would a coaching switch be enough for the Lakers to overcome Denver’s roster? I think with relatively even coaches Denver wins but Ham frequently sabotages his own team.

Just a curiosity obviously not something that’s gonna happen

I say it wouldn't swap the outcome in the Lakers favor, but that's more out of me not being sure how much of the issues we're seeing with the team are a ham centric issue, or a general staff failure. If you completely swapped their staffs out would it be enough to sway the outcome of the series? Honestly maybe, and that's somewhat depressing to consider.

I mean I can easily see Ham playing Reggie Murray KCP lineups.

[Mos_Heat]

Thats the crazy part

I feel like we aren't far apart

But we had 3.5 guys show up tonight

Vincent has been a bust. Defense is not bad, but he fouls a lot, and he is useless on offense rn
Rui has been horrible these 2 games and looks scared. Turned down a decent 3. Not the same guy in the reg season
Reaves as struggled with KCP on offense, bt at least playing solid D
Hayes is horrible, low iq. Jokic is a horrible matchup for low IQ thin C.

Lets see how the rest of the series goes.

How it goes determines what this team needs to do this summer or what Bron needs to do

If its a sweep, they need to make a big change or Bron needs to walk

I mean, can they get better versions of Dlo/Reaves/Rui and a real back up big? Seems unrealistic. 3 star model with Young won't work, imo. So it's kinda hopeless againt the Nuggets. Against any other team they have a real shot(maybe not Boston)

Who are better versions of Dlo, Reaves, and Rui in your eyes that are realistic?

Hoping for a Mavs implosion so maybe Kyrie wants out

I think Trae makes sense but a big contract and would cost a good amount. Much rather Donovan Mitchell if possible since he is a better defender

Rui's spot is easier to improve because he's not a starting caliber player. Miles Bridges or even Kuzma would've been way better than him

Guards are tricky. Ideally you would want a guy who can create an offense in the playoffs(Reaves and Dlo can't do it consistently) and a guy who can credibly defend PG/SG spots. If Russell or Reaves were just slighltly more dynamic offensively, you could've put Caruso/Melton type next to them, but with their mediocre shot creation, old Lebron and AD you need more from those spots

[RRR3]

I mean, can they get better versions of Dlo/Reaves/Rui and a real back up big? Seems unrealistic. 3 star model with Young won't work, imo. So it's kinda hopeless againt the Nuggets. Against any other team they have a real shot(maybe not Boston)

Who are better versions of Dlo, Reaves, and Rui in your eyes that are realistic?

Hoping for a Mavs implosion so maybe Kyrie wants out

I think Trae makes sense but a big contract and would cost a good amount. Much rather Donovan Mitchell if possible since he is a better defender

Rui's spot is easier to improve because he's not a starting caliber player. Miles Bridges or even Kuzma would've been way better than him

Guards are tricky. Ideally you would want a guy who can create an offense in the playoffs(Reaves and Dlo can't do it consistently) and a guy who can credibly defend PG/SG spots. If Russell or Reaves were just slighltly more dynamic offensively, you could've put Caruso/Melton type next to them, but with their mediocre shot creation, old Lebron and AD you need more from those spots

Rui has more value than Kuzma on this roster. Kuzma can’t shoot 3s.

[thebigbird]

Kind of infuriating how KD gets almost zero criticism for being down 0-2 to a worse team with a better supporting cast/coach. Yet people tried for years to put him in LeBron conversations. Dude had Harden + Kyrie, yet did nothing. Dude had Booker + CP3 + Ayton, did nothing. Now he has Booker + Beal, finished 6th, down 0-2 in the first round. Crickets.

Meanwhile year 21 LeBron is being held to prime Jordan standards by the same people who say he’s nowhere near Jordan. NBA discourse is truly bottom of the barrel.

[PistolPeteJR]

I'll forever be saddened by the Lakers losing Zubac, Caruso and KCP for nothing.

[Colbinii]

Kind of infuriating how KD gets almost zero criticism for being down 0-2 to a worse team with a better supporting cast/coach. Yet people tried for years to put him in LeBron conversations. Dude had Harden + Kyrie, yet did nothing. Dude had Booker + CP3 + Ayton, did nothing. Now he has Booker + Beal, finished 6th, down 0-2 in the first round. Crickets.

Meanwhile year 21 LeBron is being held to prime Jordan standards by the same people who say he’s nowhere near Jordan. NBA discourse is truly bottom of the barrel.

It shouldn't be infuriating.

The Wolves have been every bit as good as Denver this year and would have easily been the #1 seed without Towns tearing his MCL.

Phoenix has a worse Top 2 [Durant and Booker are far lesser players than LeBron and AD respectively as a duo, especially defensively].

But, the most important factor is LeBron is and will always be held to the highest basketball standard ever. No player will ever be held to the same standard as LeBron. No player will ever be judged for every single decision he makes on a basketball court for 21+ years straight. He has had the most pressure and most scrutiny of any NBA player in NBA History and absolutely destroyed even the highest possible outcomes one thought a basketball player could achieve.

I don't mind LeBron being held to the highest standard and a standard no player will ever be held to--he was crowned the King in high school and has been the King of the NBA for 2 decades.

[Ian Scuffling]

I'll forever be saddened by the Lakers losing Zubac, Caruso and KCP for nothing.

Great comment. It's funny how sometimes, many times, when people talk about players the Lakers need they talk about players they already freaking had They had a championship team and then let it disband. Pelinka for the win. I know there is more to it than just that, but they could have worked, or spent, a lot harder to keep the damn team that had just won an NBA championship. Bad owner, bad GM, bad coach. And Lebron hitched his wagon to them. Oh well.

[Ian Scuffling]

Kind of infuriating how KD gets almost zero criticism for being down 0-2 to a worse team with a better supporting cast/coach. Yet people tried for years to put him in LeBron conversations. Dude had Harden + Kyrie, yet did nothing. Dude had Booker + CP3 + Ayton, did nothing. Now he has Booker + Beal, finished 6th, down 0-2 in the first round. Crickets.

Meanwhile year 21 LeBron is being held to prime Jordan standards by the same people who say he’s nowhere near Jordan. NBA discourse is truly bottom of the barrel.

Not much "reasoning" going on, but a whole lot of emoting. And like you said, these same haters must deep down really think he's the GOAT in the way they expect a 39 year old, 21 year in NBA player should be playing. I mean, he's still playing like a top 10 to 15 player in this league at his age and they want more? It's remarkable.

[rk2023]

Kind of infuriating how KD gets almost zero criticism for being down 0-2 to a worse team with a better supporting cast/coach. Yet people tried for years to put him in LeBron conversations. Dude had Harden + Kyrie, yet did nothing. Dude had Booker + CP3 + Ayton, did nothing. Now he has Booker + Beal, finished 6th, down 0-2 in the first round. Crickets.

Meanwhile year 21 LeBron is being held to prime Jordan standards by the same people who say he’s nowhere near Jordan. NBA discourse is truly bottom of the barrel.

Say what you want about the bubble or not, how much LeBron outproduced both KD and Curry in their age of 35 time frames - being a vastly better defender and on-ball creator than either - despite more NBA mileage and load shouldered at these respective career points is a testament to longevity. As much as people want to see it happen, nobody will be replicating this old age excellence for a while. I’d have to see it to believe it.

Even nowadays, good shot he is better than both (and Kawhi) over a playoff series. They (and Davis) are all two tiers or so below Jokic though, which is the most true and tested nuance with where the playoffs are right now.

I said this in the 2023-24 season thread, but there are a lot of West teams I would take LAL over in a series (eg. Clippers, OKC, Dallas, Suns, Pelis). They have a 14-7 record against these teams in the RS, all with clear areas to exploit as opposed to low hanging fruit than Denver or Minnesota has..

[Fadeaway_J]

I'll forever be saddened by the Lakers losing Zubac, Caruso and KCP for nothing.

"Saddened" doesn't begin to describe it.

Those three decisions alone should be grounds for long custodial sentences for everyone involved.

[PistolPeteJR]

All of this brouhaha will die down over time. He's held to a ridiculous standard, the highest of any player ever, and it's not close. But this idea that he's "choking" in Year 21 vs a guy that's very likely going to finish top-10 all-time in Jokic who's currently in his prime and who's also surrounded by an excellent supporting cast while being the defending champions is ludicrous.

[lessthanjake]

I’m a little confused. I don’t really watch or listen to sports shows or talk radio, so it’s very very possible I’m missing something, but I don’t see people saying LeBron is choking or even really criticizing him at all for being down to the Nuggets. The discourse I’ve seen is basically all just people matter-of-factly saying the Lakers are not as good as the Nuggets and so what has happened so far is expected/unsurprising. The individual player I’ve seen the most blame lobbed at was DLo after Game 1. I’ve seen virtually no real criticism of LeBron—except a little bit of questioning of his body language towards the end of Game 1 and his decision to settle for an open three at the end of Game 2. I guess those are criticisms, but they’re pretty minor (not to mention generally being couched with positives about what he did at other points in the games). I don’t see people treating this like a series LeBron should actually be *expected* to win or be the best player in, so I don’t really think the standard LeBron is being held to here is all that high at all (nor do I think he’s failing to meet that standard or being criticized for failing to meet some higher standard). But, again, I don’t watch idiots like Skip Bayless, so I guess I wouldn’t be super surprised if there’s someone doing that. But Skip Bayless shouldn’t be the barometer for the standard someone is being held to—he (and others like him) just takes extreme positions to drive clicks and views, and the whole point is to frequently say things that are so outrageous that people hate-watch it.

[Ian Scuffling]

My own experience is limited to when I wade into the hell hole also known as Bleacher Report forums. LOL...So, I'm speaking more about the average every day moron as opposed to the professionally highly paid moron. Those people do hold him to the GOAT standard even at age 39 and 21 years in. But, then again. They're morons.