KD’s GOAT tier portability

[EmpireFalls]

It’s been a widely accepted talking point (between both casual fans, TV media, and high level thinkers and data analysts like Ben Taylor) that KD is the ultimate plug and play guy. His portability is constantly brought up as the platonic ideal of fitting into every team.

And it makes sense, both in theory and demonstrably - he ticks a lot of the boxes (excellent shooting, off ball gravity, excellent positional size and versatility, good defense both at the rim and on the perimeter, strong efficiency of movement) and has perhaps the greatest ceiling raising season ever on his resume with 2017 GS, raising a 73-9 team from all time great to what is now widely viewed as the greatest team of the century, as well as elite international performances winning gold medals for the US.

All of this makes logical sense, however, I am beginning to re-think things about his portability.

KD’s consistent postseason failures outside of the Golden State situation (a fully formed team that already had an all-time-great offense, a 73-9 regular season and championship experience) are really hard to square with this idea of ultimate portability. How could someone play with Kyrie and Harden, CP3, Booker and now Beal, and come up short?

Obviously there are confounding factors, with the primary ball handler in Harden and CP3 struggling through injuries (or not playing at all) and then leaving in a trade, but why has he failed to raise the ceiling of a Suns team that in 21 made the finals and in 22 won 64 games, and why did Brooklyn ultimately fail?

And indeed, why does his portability automatically rank so much higher than other players of his generation who have been viewed as ball-dominant, even though players like Harden and CP3 have coalesced to match his Warriors in 2018 (and likely could’ve won if not for CP3’s hamstring) and his generational competitor in James has won rings in 3 different situations with highly varying supporting casts?

What is it that we are missing in the portability discussion?

[Ambrose]

How could someone play with Kyrie and Harden, CP3, Booker and now Beal, and come up short?

Injuries.

He's too old and not the same guy.

[EmpireFalls]

How could someone play with Kyrie and Harden, CP3, Booker and now Beal, and come up short?

Injuries.

He's too old and not the same guy.

That’s interesting. I tend to believe the injuries have done a number on him as well (he shot 22% from 3 last postseason vs Denver). In my head I had marked 3 possible explanations.

a)KD is in fact incredibly portable, but the situations are too dysfunctional to work, meaning he’s being put in a floor raising role rather than ceiling raising role?
b) KD was incredibly portable, but his declined rim pressure and aging post injury has sapped elements of his game that made him portable?
c) KD is not as portable as we thought due to certain limitations in his game such as his playmaking, lack of vision, and merely average screen setting and teammate interfacing?

So you would fit into camp b?

[AdagioPace]

even Klay thompson and Draymond are extremely portable players but they declined pretty fast.
"Portability", from Latin "portāre" (“to bring, carry”), implies the ability to transfer your impact across many teams and situations. if your "luggage" is not mvp-level anymore, switching teams will not make you find your baggage of skills and your stamina back. It maybe can slow down your decay (as opposed to Westbrook's fast decline) but it cannot send you back in time.

[WintaSoldier1]

3 Things come to mind for myself
(1) Injuries, just does not have the same rim pressure and has patterned himself into pulling up and settling for 12 footers instead of getting rack runs
(2) The evolution of the game, and thus his approach: He's taken a very "Hoop-Centric" style to basketball post-GSW and I think that deteriorates some of the impact and depth of his game. Largely, KD has been a rhythm player his entire career but I'm assuming it was never this level of rhythm-dependency, felt like he was more of a unstoppable spot hunter pre-nets

[eminence]

Rambling thoughts:
-I'd say KD has strong portability, but a step down from a few stronger defensive players as the portability GOATs.
-Portability doesn't much matter for your top 2/3 players outside of fringe cases (pairing Gobert and Mutombo would seem likely to yield diminishing returns - though hey, maybe even they can pull off a poor man's Robinson/Duncan), you get those guys and then you fit other guys in around them.
-Ancient CP3/Beal are not notable #3 guys, combined with Phoenix's poor depth and KD declining it's just tough to see them going anywhere.
-From what I remember looking at the stats the BRK trio largely worked when they played together. Getting on the court together was the issue there.

[Doctor MJ]

It’s been a widely accepted talking point (between both casual fans, TV media, and high level thinkers and data analysts like Ben Taylor) that KD is the ultimate plug and play guy. His portability is constantly brought up as the platonic ideal of fitting into every team.

And it makes sense, both in theory and demonstrably - he ticks a lot of the boxes (excellent shooting, off ball gravity, excellent positional size and versatility, good defense both at the rim and on the perimeter, strong efficiency of movement) and has perhaps the greatest ceiling raising season ever on his resume with 2017 GS, raising a 73-9 team from all time great to what is now widely viewed as the greatest team of the century, as well as elite international performances winning gold medals for the US.

All of this makes logical sense, however, I am beginning to re-think things about his portability.

KD’s consistent postseason failures outside of the Golden State situation (a fully formed team that already had an all-time-great offense, a 73-9 regular season and championship experience) are really hard to square with this idea of ultimate portability. How could someone play with Kyrie and Harden, CP3, Booker and now Beal, and come up short?

Obviously there are confounding factors, with the primary ball handler in Harden and CP3 struggling through injuries (or not playing at all) and then leaving in a trade, but why has he failed to raise the ceiling of a Suns team that in 21 made the finals and in 22 won 64 games, and why did Brooklyn ultimately fail?

And indeed, why does his portability automatically rank so much higher than other players of his generation who have been viewed as ball-dominant, even though players like Harden and CP3 have coalesced to match his Warriors in 2018 (and likely could’ve won if not for CP3’s hamstring) and his generational competitor in James has won rings in 3 different situations with highly varying supporting casts?

What is it that we are missing in the portability discussion?

Good topic, I think you've confused some things when you say Ben's said KD was the ultimate plug & play guy. Other people said that, and if true, it does relate to portability. But I think Ben's been pretty clear that there's a clear cut difference between KD in GS and KD everywhere else.

[Doctor MJ]

In a nutshell with KD:

He's an individual athlete playing a team sport who became overconfident in how much he understood about the game because of the success he had culminating in GS.

I think the most damning thing about KD's career is not that he left GS and had some struggles, but the way he he came to disrespect Kerr while he was there. There was more going on that the relationship between KD and his coach there (KD was mostly focused on the shine Steph got from the media), but KD pretty clearly thought that all of the team stuff that Kerr emphasized was BS and he came to resent it.

I've previously noted the similarities between Kerr's Warriors and Ted Lasso's Richmond team. Not saying the show was intended to be the Warriors in soccer, but Lasso is very much a Kerr analogue, while KD is Jamie Tartt - before Tartt grows up that is.

[lessthanjake]

I think Durant is definitely a very “portable” player IMO, but his success in his post-GSW career has been limited by various issues.

A big one is just that Durant is pretty old at this point and has had a major injury. He’s not the same player he was before, especially in the playoffs, where I think the intensity is higher and age can be more of a factor. I think that’s broadly speaking the biggest factor when it comes to 2022, 2023, and so far in 2024. A player can be portable and also just not quite good enough to beat a great team in the playoffs regardless. And the playoff struggles have certainly been against great teams (2022 Celtics, 2023 Nuggets & 2024 Wolves).

I don’t think the above really applies to Durant in 2021—even though he was just coming off a major injury. But obviously his team basically collapsed with injuries against the Bucks, so that loss is definitely understandable. And I don’t think anything that happened prior to those injuries suggests Durant wasn’t portable—indeed, they had done great in the first round and were doing well against the team that ended up winning the title.

Those are the biggest factors to me. Basically, in 2021, he was still a top-tier star and seemed quite portable and then his team collapsed with injury. And then from 2022 onwards, I just think age has caught up to him such that he’s not actually been a completely top-tier star anymore. At that point, he’s the type of player you’d expect to lose to great teams in the playoffs, regardless of whether he’s portable or not, and that’s ultimately what has happened.

[Joao Saraiva]

KD is indeed an easy fit with other superstar. But as a #1 option he doesn't bring the impact of other guys who are much better decision makers. Yes they need the ball more, but with that will come big upside and chances for teammates.

KD is a great scorer and an easy fit on offense. But that doesn't guarantee success.

Teams need rim protection, ability to switch on defense, production from the bench, floor spacers to let the best players operate in PnR situations... So is KD supposed to be the guy that operates in PnR situations? Do you think he brings a bigger upside on that #1 role than a guy like Nash? Let alone LBJ, Jokic or Magic type of players.

Ultimately you can say he's the ultimate raiser to an already very good offensive team. If you add Magic to a Steve Nash team... not so optimal. If you put Bron and Wade it requires adaptation for it to work completely. KD will make the fit easier.

I believe in what the player actually did and not hypothetical scenarios. Yes he did it in GSW, but he failed as a leader and never seemed hungry to win and to develop a good winning culture elsewhere. He gains in the raising on great offense, but clearly loses as a leader, primary ball handler and offensive player to other guys.

[RCM88x]

The same attributes that grant KD his portability (I would disagree he's GOAT level in that sense though) also create many of his main weaknesses as a player. Lots of these overlap to be fair.

1) Ultimately off-ball shooter/scorer but requires a great passer and creator to generate those looks.
2) Elite floor spacer, but provides almost no rim pressure especially as he's gotten older, doesn't force the defense to breakdown to defend against him.
3) Not a guy who needs the ball a lot or pounds the ball too much, or needs to be high usage but isn't really capable of consistently creating shots for others or running quality offense in general. Not an efficient handler of the ball, prone to turnovers when driving.
4) High level off ball defender and help defender, but not really great in isolation and has no true defensive positions. Can be exploited by quicker guys and bigger/stronger guys.
5) Very high skill level for his height and athleticism so he's almost always a defensive miss match, however he has no real offensive position either, and might force other guys into awkward matchups that can only be taken advantage of in certain situations.

Just proves you can't have everything as a player, everyone is gonna have some weaknesses that can come back to hurt them.

[Pelly24]

He's super portable, but has never been this unstoppable, all-around force people say he is. Sloppy with the ball in key moments whole career. Luka now is better than he ever was

[Peregrine01]

The other thing about KD is that he's not as great an off-ball player like many think he is. He uses screens to get himself into his spots but he isn't stressing the defense and making them work really hard the way that guys like Steph, Jokic and even Lebron sometimes do. And if plays aren't drawn for him specifically, he tends to stand in the corner just like we criticize Luka and Harden for doing. This makes him a lot more predictable compared to the best offensive players of his era.

Looking back, aside from 2017, the KD-era Warriors really didn't gel anywhere near what they were capable of and a lot of that was due to KD falling back to his old ways.

[Fundamentals21]

Well yes, mostly as a shooter and a scorer he has it in him to score at 60 + TS%. He has deadly range and that's what makes him so portable IMO. He's a really effective forward on pretty much any team in the NBA.

- Shot creation
- Fast agile body
- Elite range
- Good size for D
- Wingspan
- High efficiency

Pretty much has the perfect combo that modern day teams are looking for. My only criticism is that he needed to go as far as joining a 72 win superteam to do his thing, but otherwise all 30 NBA teams would be thankful to have a portability GOD like this.

There are some arguments that Durant didn't win enough once he got older, but he did ok on those teams IMO. Brooklyn needed a little more from their coaching and chemistry side to put things together, but Durant individually was very good in those years.

[Colbinii]

I don't consider his portability GOAT tier. He joined the greatest team ever and they got better while his skill-set filled in holes they had [Which is generating points when the game slows down]. Is Durant really better at generating points in a half-court sets against set defenses than Jordan/LeBron/Magic/Bird/CP3/Nash/Jokic/Dirk/Kawhi? Probably not. The Warriors utilized his scoring in these sets to produce offense, but any of the players listed could provide scoring either directly or indirectly as playmakers and elite decision making.

Too often portability gets cast as "Best Shooter" but many players can produce better offense than Kevin Durant in the same role, on a similar team, yet Durant is deemed as the more portable player.

Put it this way, if LeBron or Dirk had the ball in the same % of players for Golden State as Durant had, I feel like both these players would exceed the efficiency of the sets ran compared to the ones involving Durant.

Defense is an often forgotten aspect of Portability. Jordan and LeBron were significantly better defensively than Durant, even in Durant's GSW years where he was legitimately a measurable +++ on that end of the court.

[Ol Roy]

IMO Durant's isolation scoring style isn't a detriment to the team offense because he doesn't overdribble or overshoot, but his passing limitations cap his ability to create for his teammates.

I think Bird fits this archetype better than KD. He's also a great shooter but more active off-ball and pairs his scoring with top tier passing. KD is the better perimeter defender and can elevate more at the rim, but Bird does have an advantage in physical man defense and fighting for rebounds.

Kevin Garnett and David Robinson are at the top of my list for overall portability/scalability. KG the better shooter; D-Rob the better finisher, though both could shoot and finish. Excellent passers and rebounders. Willing and effective screeners. The top tier defense translates anywhere. Proven as both focal points and complimentary pieces (high level impact data from start to finish.)

[Heej]

Almost as if there's more to portability than shooting and that somehow the ability to extend and generate advantages via passes alongside the associated defensive application of court mapping acumen with respect to help defense matters more than the typical fare of portability buzzword concepts.

Portability is a cool concept that to me is often misused as a cudgel to punish players whose games offend an individual poster's basketball zeitgeist and vice versa when they enjoy how someone plays.

[Statlanta]

I think the portability narrative is overrated with not only him but Garnett.

I think a lot of lower tier SFs(peak Havlicek) would go 2-1 in terms of titles with those Warriors teams.

[One_and_Done]

Partly injuries to him and others at unfortunate moments over the years, but also he's gotten older. He doesn't have the same impact in his mid 30s. Lastly the coach needs to use him correctly. He shouldn't be iso'ing so much. They should build the primary offense around Booker & Beal high PnR, with KD going offball and playing more 5.

[Colbinii]

Partly injuries to him and others at unfortunate moments over the years, but also he's gotten older. He doesn't have the same impact in his mid 30s. Lastly the coach needs to use him correctly. He shouldn't be iso'ing so much. They should build the primary offense around Booker & Beal high PnR, with KD going offball and playing more 5.

The problem is Minnesota is one of the best teams at defending the PnR. Gobert is one of the best Drop-Bigs ever and his spacing makes it extremely difficult for Booker/Beal to attack the PnR with McDaniels/Edwards/NAW glued to them.

Nurkic isn't good enough offensively or diverse enough to put Gobert in difficult situations and Booker/Beal aren't the level of passers who can penalize Gobert from delaying his drop.