Player A vs Player B

[farzi]

+/- is such a flawed stat, ESPECIALLY when comparing players on different teams. All this really says is that there's a bigger differece in production between OKCs starters and bench than there is between Cleveland's starters and bench, which should be no surprise as Cleveland has an excellent bench with players like a potential 6MOY in Varejao, a starting quality C in Big Z and a very good, versatile, 2-way guard in Delonte.

For example, look at these stats from 08/09:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ONSORT6.HTM

This same state you are trying to big up says that Lamar Odom was the 3rd best player in the league in 08/09, better than Wade, Kobe, etc. It also ranks Thaddeus Young above Dwight Howard, Matt Bonner above Carmelo Anthony, Sebastian Telfair and Nick Young above Chris Bosh, etc. It is an almost entirely meaningless stat, and has basically zero relevance when comparing 2 players.

Durant is very good but LeBron is WAY better, give it up you stupid homer.

LOL @ your insecurity. It's pathetic to be forced to stoop to insults on a message board.

I like how you ignore 3 paragraphs of information completely, and only choose to respond to the last sentence. You won't argue the stat's validity, will you?

[BrooklynBulls]

Durant is very good but LeBron is WAY better, give it up you stupid homer.

LOL @ your insecurity. It's pathetic to be forced to stoop to insults on a message board.

Interesting that you consider "stupid" an insult, but calling someone insecure and pathetic not to be. Hm.

[ponder276]

Durant is very good but LeBron is WAY better, give it up you stupid homer.

LOL @ your insecurity. It's pathetic to be forced to stoop to insults on a message board.

Interesting that you consider "stupid" an insult, but calling someone insecure and pathetic not to be. Hm.

Indeed, plus completely ignoring my point that this stat does a horrible job of ranking players, unless the OP really thinks Matt Bonner contributes more to wins than Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh. And I'm not sure what insecurity he's talking about, I'm a Raps fan, not a Cavs fan or a LeBron fan, but I can recognize a great player when I see one. LeBron is unreal, Durant is very good but is most definitely not at LeBron's level yet (and very likely will never get there, but who knows, it's possible).

[farzi]

So after his -11 tonight, I guess he's no longer the best player in the league? I don't get it. That's what the stat says

[Jimmy76]

So after his -11 tonight, I guess he's no longer the best player in the league? I don't get it. That's what the stat says

-11 isnt adjusted +/-

THATS A DIFFERENT STAT

edit: the -11 will be factored into his cumulative +/- which is +450 (correct me if i have interpreted things wrong here)

[yungal07]

Question. If LeBron were barely ahead in +/-, would you bring it up, at all, as something that made LeBron better? Or is it something that was pointed out on a broadcast that homers have latched on to, and are trying to make a relevant stat because it says that your favorite player is better than someone else?

This is the complete chart from 82 games, I've made nothing up.

Lebron is better. I don't want it to be so, because KD is from my county. But reality says Lebron is better.

[JordansBulls]

The next great comparison in the NBA.

[farzi]

No its not. LeBron has lost with HCA, KD never has. It's not even a debate.

[dream_catcher_9]

So after his -11 tonight, I guess he's no longer the best player in the league? I don't get it. That's what the stat says

he was bad that game, so that stat is right. Maynor and Ibaka were the 2 best players that game and look both were in the +

[joyner82]

So after his -11 tonight, I guess he's no longer the best player in the league? I don't get it. That's what the stat says

he was bad that game, so that stat is right. Maynor and Ibaka were the 2 best players that game and look both were in the +

I think the +31 in 32 minutes should make up for it.

[Gongxi]

Wait, does Joyner really think that Durant is better than James?

[ponder276]

DEAR JOYNER: PLEASE RESPOND TO MY POST

+/- is such a flawed stat, ESPECIALLY when comparing players on different teams. All this really says is that there's a bigger differece in production between OKCs starters and bench than there is between Cleveland's starters and bench, which should be no surprise as Cleveland has an excellent bench with players like a potential 6MOY in Varejao, a starting quality C in Big Z and a very good, versatile, 2-way guard in Delonte.

For example, look at these stats from 08/09:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ONSORT6.HTM

This same state you are trying to big up says that Lamar Odom was the 3rd best player in the league in 08/09, better than Wade, Kobe, etc. It also ranks Thaddeus Young above Dwight Howard, Matt Bonner above Carmelo Anthony, Sebastian Telfair and Nick Young above Chris Bosh, etc. It is an almost entirely meaningless stat, and has basically zero relevance when comparing 2 players.

Durant is very good but LeBron is WAY better, give it up you stupid homer.

You are trying to argue that Durant is better than LeBron because he has better on/off stats. By the same logic, last season Thad Young and Matt Bonner were both better than Carmelo Anthony and Chris Bosh. Do you actually think these trash players were better than franchise players like Bosh and Melo? And if you don't think they were better, doesn't that straight up prove that this stat is an absolutely terrible and meaningless way to compare players?

[joyner82]

DEAR JOYNER: PLEASE RESPOND TO MY POST

+/- is such a flawed stat, ESPECIALLY when comparing players on different teams. All this really says is that there's a bigger differece in production between OKCs starters and bench than there is between Cleveland's starters and bench, which should be no surprise as Cleveland has an excellent bench with players like a potential 6MOY in Varejao, a starting quality C in Big Z and a very good, versatile, 2-way guard in Delonte.

For example, look at these stats from 08/09:
http://www.82games.com/0809/ONSORT6.HTM

This same state you are trying to big up says that Lamar Odom was the 3rd best player in the league in 08/09, better than Wade, Kobe, etc. It also ranks Thaddeus Young above Dwight Howard, Matt Bonner above Carmelo Anthony, Sebastian Telfair and Nick Young above Chris Bosh, etc. It is an almost entirely meaningless stat, and has basically zero relevance when comparing 2 players.

Durant is very good but LeBron is WAY better, give it up you stupid homer.

You are trying to argue that Durant is better than LeBron because he has better on/off stats. By the same logic, last season Thad Young and Matt Bonner were both better than Carmelo Anthony and Chris Bosh. Do you actually think these trash players were better than franchise players like Bosh and Melo? And if you don't think they were better, doesn't that straight up prove that this stat is an absolutely terrible and meaningless way to compare players?

As I've already stated it isn't about on/off only. It's about every single on/off stat. Durant leads LeBron in virtually everyone as far as on/off goes and he's tied in AST%

[B2Bhoops]

I have to admit I think it is rather funny that up to this point Lebron fanboys have loved pointing to stats as some kind of proof or measure of a players impact. Then Durant jumps into the conversation and suddenly stats don't show the whole picture.