Free Agency 2014 Thread

[azuresou1]

Is Alex Kennedy a legit source?

I want to point out that we technically have enough cap space to sign Monroe outright to about $9M/year - no need to S&T. This would require Mike Scott not receiving any offers and returning on the QO, and not signing Bazemore. If we sign Bazemore, we could offer $7M.

[Jamaaliver]

Is Alex Kennedy a legit source?

I want to point out that we technically have enough cap space to sign Monroe outright to about $9M/year - no need to S&T.

1. I've never seen anything to make me believe Alex Kennedy couldn't be trusted on something as simple as reporting a phone call.

2. We bid $9 million per, Detroit will easily match and have a great trade chip on their roster for the next few years.

Detroit has the right to match any offer for Monroe and are expected to either A. match the offer or B. demand a significant return for letting Monroe go. In other words, teams can get him, but it's going to cost more than the offer sheet to bring him to their team.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24602062/report-magic-hawks-interested-in-greg-monroe

[Jamaaliver]

Is Alex Kennedy a legit source?

Also, I feel we've had enough sources reporting our interest for long enough to deduce there is at least some interest on our part.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine/status/483786125643747329[/tweet]

[Jamaaliver]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/483850766416101376[/tweet]

My guess, Pistons are holding out hope they can trade Josh Smith away. If that happens they try to keep Monroe. Otherwise, they simply have to work out a sign-and-trade so they don't lose such a valuable asset for nothing.

[theatlfan]

Not really sure why tweets from 7/1 are cropping back up now...

From the T&T board rumor mill, DET has offered Monroe 5yr/$60M - I don't think a deal starting at $9M gets it done. Another rumor is that SVG won't deal Smith in a salary dump (he wants value back) and that Monroe has made it clear he doesn't want to return to DET if Smith is on the roster. There's another that says that Monroe is looking for a max deal and won't sign an offer sheet without it.

My thought is (and has been for a while now) that we should take all our available cap space - which I think is somewhere around $11M since neither Mack nor Bazemore has actually signed - and offer Monroe all of it on a 1yr deal with trade kicker to the max and a PO for y2. If DET matches, then DET can't trade Monroe without his consent and even if he was traded, then he'd be a max player. If DET doesn't match, then we get Monroe for 2 years (he couldn't decline the PO since we wouldn't have Early Bird Rights without it) at a price that is more than palatable. For Monroe, it basically means that he signs for 2x his QO if DET matches while also gaining a no trade clause; if DET passes, then he leaves a situation that is starting to become slightly toxic altogether. Sounds like a win/win iyam.

[Jamaaliver]

Not really sure why tweets from 7/1 are cropping back up now...

I like to read in the archives on slow days at work. Found it interesting that the first rumor involving us after Free Agency started still hasn't been resolved one way or the other.

Makes me think something is still in the works.

I've heard many of the same rumors regarding Monroe that you have.

Honestly, I have very little faith in Ferry to actually make a deal that garners us a top young player.

I seriously hope he proves me wrong.

[D21]

Several things to note :

- We can offer more than 9M, if I'm not wrong, by renouncing Scott Q.O., we can offer an average of 12.4M to Monroe.
Don't forget that if we can use our cap room on a guy like Monroe, Bazemore will be signed once all the cap room is used, with the Room-MLE, so no need to count Bazemore.
And no need to count Mack at his new salary, he's not signed at this moment, so he still counts at his Q.O.
Only Payne has been signed, at 120% of his rookie scaled contract, and eats 300k more than if not signed.

- we have an advantage over DET : Monroe would play all of his expected 32min at C with ATL
With DET, if they keep Drummond, he's half C, half-PF and he's better at C than PF

He knows it, he knows that he was playing better with him at C and Josh at PF than him at PF and Drummond at C.
Actually, DET was good with Drummond-Smith and Monroe-Smith but bad with Drummond-Monroe-Smith

For the same money, I'm pretty sure Monroe would not sign with DET but agree for a sign-&-trade with ATL

No, if it takes so long, it's certainly because Ferry is trying to get him while keeping Millsap to get a monster rotation at C-PF with Monroe-Horford-Millsap

If we need to send Millsap, it's hard to know if we would be better with Monroe-Horford than Horford-Millsap.

[atlantabbq99]

Andray Blatche, Emeka Okafor, or Jermaine O'Neal, which ever one of the three is willing to take a one year contract.

Honestly would prefer Brand over any of these 3...

Brand is not a center and the Hawks got hurt because of it.

[theatlfan]

Andray Blatche, Emeka Okafor, or Jermaine O'Neal, which ever one of the three is willing to take a one year contract.

Honestly would prefer Brand over any of these 3...

Brand is not a center and the Hawks got hurt because of it.

Don't necessarily agree with this comment, but Brand is no less a C than the other guys listed though. Also, you don't have the ? with Brand about his desire to play like these guys (albeit this is less of a ? with O'Neal since his big contract ran out). If the choice is between those 4, I think it's a fairly easy choice but I also think there will be better options that will emerge in time.

[Jamaaliver]

Brand is not a center and the Hawks got hurt because of it.

Don't necessarily agree with this comment, but Brand is no less a C than the other guys listed though

I gotta side with atlbbq99 on this one. Brand never had the size, but he now lacks the athleticism, foot speed as well. He has savvy and strength. But I no longer think we can rely on him to log heavy minutes at the 5 spot.

His playoff series was one of the absolute worst in recent memory.
Playoff FG%: 17%
Playoff PER: 9.8
Playoff Win Shares: 0.2

He was really bad. And if Horford goes down again, a rotation of Brand and Pero has proven to be subpar already.

[atlantabbq99]

Honestly would prefer Brand over any of these 3...

Brand is not a center and the Hawks got hurt because of it.

Don't necessarily agree with this comment, but Brand is no less a C than the other guys listed though. Also, you don't have the ? with Brand about his desire to play like these guys (albeit this is less of a ? with O'Neal since his big contract ran out). If the choice is between those 4, I think it's a fairly easy choice but I also think there will be better options that will emerge in time.

[theatlfan]

I gotta side with atlbbq99 on this one. Brand never had the size, but he now lacks the athleticism, foot speed as well. He has savvy and strength. But I no longer think we can rely on him to log heavy minutes at the 5 spot.

His playoff series was one of the absolute worst in recent memory.
Playoff FG%: 17%
Playoff PER: 9.8
Playoff Win Shares: 0.2

He was really bad. And if Horford goes down again, a rotation of Brand and Pero has proven to be subpar already.

Couple of points:
1) Brand actually has similar height /standing reach measurements with Okafor who is one of the 3 in the comp; Brand is also 15-20 pounds heavier. Can't find any verifiable numbers on the other 2, but I'd guess Brand's standing reach came in pretty close to - if not sufficiently more than - either of them.
2) I wouldn't necessarily pull out any SSS as proof of anything - so forth a player's demise. Still, in this case, I don't necessarily disagree as much as just think the other 3 are even more wretched.

Still, it's not like I don't think that Brand is untouchable or can't be upgraded - just that if you want to put out a listing of players that would be upgrades, then I'd like to see some without a severe case of "Don't Give a $h!t" either. I like Blatche on the court, but the stories of Kidd gaining his respect by suspending Blatche are eye-opening; Okafor hasn't cared about an NBA game since seemingly before he was drafted (although injuries do play a part here). O'Neal might have topped the "don't GAS" list not too long ago, but he has seemed to pick it up over the last 2 years. Still, he has played as many games in the last 4 years (148) as Brand has played over the last 2 (145).

Here's the thing with Brand: he is a professional who shows up every day, plays hard, and does the little things. As far as I'm concerned, these 4 traits are of paramount importance to the "SAS way" that we kept droning on. If a player isn't willing to do all of these things, then we'll look elsewhere for someone who will. I don't see Okafor, O'Neal, or Blatche as guys who'll do these things... maybe not even 1 of them.

Hard argument to make when one of the guys you're touting is .5" taller...
Name / Height w/o shoes / Wingspan / Standing Reach
Emeka Okafor / 6'8.75" / 7'4" / 9'2.5"
Elton Brand / 6'8.25" / 7'5.5" / 9'2"

[atlantabbq99]

I gotta side with atlbbq99 on this one. Brand never had the size, but he now lacks the athleticism, foot speed as well. He has savvy and strength. But I no longer think we can rely on him to log heavy minutes at the 5 spot.

His playoff series was one of the absolute worst in recent memory.
Playoff FG%: 17%
Playoff PER: 9.8
Playoff Win Shares: 0.2

He was really bad. And if Horford goes down again, a rotation of Brand and Pero has proven to be subpar already.

Couple of points:
1) Brand actually has similar height /standing reach measurements with Okafor who is one of the 3 in the comp; Brand is also 15-20 pounds heavier. Can't find any verifiable numbers on the other 2, but I'd guess Brand's standing reach came in pretty close to - if not sufficiently more than - either of them.
2) I wouldn't necessarily pull out any SSS as proof of anything - so forth a player's demise. Still, in this case, I don't necessarily disagree as much as just think the other 3 are even more wretched.

Still, it's not like I don't think that Brand is untouchable or can't be upgraded - just that if you want to put out a listing of players that would be upgrades, then I'd like to see some without a severe case of "Don't Give a $h!t" either. I like Blatche on the court, but the stories of Kidd gaining his respect by suspending Blatche are eye-opening; Okafor hasn't cared about an NBA game since seemingly before he was drafted (although injuries do play a part here). O'Neal might have topped the "don't GAS" list not too long ago, but he has seemed to pick it up over the last 2 years. Still, he has played as many games in the last 4 years (148) as Brand has played over the last 2 (145).

Here's the thing with Brand: he is a professional who shows up every day, plays hard, and does the little things. As far as I'm concerned, these 4 traits are of paramount importance to the "SAS way" that we kept droning on. If a player isn't willing to do all of these things, then we'll look elsewhere for someone who will. I don't see Okafor, O'Neal, or Blatche as guys who'll do these things... maybe not even 1 of them.

Hard argument to make when one of the guys you're touting is .5" taller...
Name / Height w/o shoes / Wingspan / Standing Reach
Emeka Okafor / 6'8.75" / 7'4" / 9'2.5"
Elton Brand / 6'8.25" / 7'5.5" / 9'2"

I'm okay with that, but why are you avoiding Jermain O'Neal and Andray Blatche

[theatlfan]

I'm okay with that, but why are you avoiding Jermain O'Neal and Andray Blatche

Because I don't have verifiable numbers on either and I hate go round and round about unverifiable numbers that are almost always inflated and with shoes on. That wasn't uncommon for the preps-to-pros set that both O'Neal and Blatche belonged to, but it also means that any numbers that you can find for them are generally suspect. For instance, all I can find on Blatche is that he's 6'11" and has a standing reach of "nearly 9'". That's not good for a C (Brand's 9'2" standing reach isn't great, but it's much, much better than "nearly" 9'), but again, the number is suspect at best.

For O'Neal, I can't even find this much although I admit that I didn't try to hard - how much can I care about someone who has played less minutes in the last 4 years than Brand has played in the last 2? I mean, the guys who coached him cared less about him than I do - we weren't even going to play Brand in b2b games last season yet he still clocked in with nearly 2x the minutes that O'Neal saw. I know injuries played a part, but it's not like we have an amazing medical staff that can work wonders. Look at Horford, our star is setting records for a weird injury in basketball that the medical staff can't stop from recurring. What do we expect them to do with an injury history like O'Neal's?

I wrote it up in the response to Jamaaliver (of which post I was wrapping up before you posted the DAL pic), but for the listing of the guys you had, it isn't so much the measurables (well, outside of the fact that when you look at wingspan and standing reach, then Brand really fits right in with the others on the list) but the general attitude. Going all the way back to his days at Duke, I never got the feeling that Brand would just assume not play on a particular night - he was always prepared and ready to take the court. Even when all of PHI *hated* him and his albatross contract, he gave his all and never stopped working on his game even if his athleticism had deserted him to the point where he'd never have a chance to be worth his contract. I've never had the feeling that Okafor particularly cared and I remember multiple rumors out of NOLA that coincided with this. O'Neal has only recently started to turn a corner here although this may come from not playing every night now. Blatche was actually amnestied by WASH because of his DGAS attitude, and he apparently hasn't gotten any better since arriving at BRK and was suspended because of it. I mean, sure, he could be an incredible catch if he turns it around (and I actually thought after getting his 2nd chance with BRK but alas...), but I'm just not one to believe that someone will all the suddenly find the light entering his 10th year in the league.

[Years80HAWKS]

I do not know whether Ferry is working like crazy and no deal goes down, or he is on vacation already for a month and this is the roster we will "enjoy" for the next season.

until now, disappointing off season.

So much money, expiring contracts and picks for Sefolosha and Payne (plus Horford, but at the C position again)? Pleeeaaase....

[Jamaaliver]

...this is the roster we will "enjoy" for the next season.

until now, disappointing off season.

Agreed. And it's made worse because, apparently, some of our Free Agent targets refused to even meet with us.

No one will take Atlanta’s money...Some stars won’t even meet with them. I almost wanted to hug Budenholzer when I saw him in Vegas.

We should have known this before we started dumping assets. It's not only generally embarrassing; it shows a level of ineptitude to not realize there was so little interest in the first place.

We traded a highly regarded young Center prospect AND an expiring contract and managed to make the team worse. (Bazemore and Thabo help somewhat.)

But under the new CBA, expiring contracts and young players on rookie contracts are absolute gold. D Ferry completely mismanaged those assets.

[D21]

I do not know whether Ferry is working like crazy and no deal goes down, or he is on vacation already for a month and this is the roster we will "enjoy" for the next season

I can tell you he's still working, and it's as simple as that : except Payne (who changed our cap room by 300K only in signing for 120% of the rookie scale, and can now be traded starting mid-August), no other player has signed, because there's still a possibility to use the maximum of cap room we can use, before we signed Bazemore, Mack, Scott...

If the actual roster was the final for sure and there was no other target, everybody would be signed already.

[ATLHawksfan21]

...this is the roster we will "enjoy" for the next season.

until now, disappointing off season.

Agreed. And it's made worse because, apparently, some of our Free Agent targets refused to even meet with us.

No one will take Atlanta’s money...Some stars won’t even meet with them. I almost wanted to hug Budenholzer when I saw him in Vegas.

We should have known this before we started dumping assets. It's not only generally embarrassing; it shows a level of ineptitude to not realize there was so little interest in the first place.

We traded a highly regarded young Center prospect [b]AND an expiring contract and managed to make the team worse. [/b](Bazemore and Thabo help somewhat.)

But under the new CBA, expiring contracts and young players on rookie contracts are absolute gold. D Ferry completely mismanaged those assets.

Where are all of these articles that show Bebe to be a highly regarded Center prospect?? I can't find them anywhere.

Do you also actually believe that Thabo/Bazemore/Payne is worse than Lou Acl/Cartier/Ayon?

[theatlfan]

I do not know whether Ferry is working like crazy and no deal goes down, or he is on vacation already for a month and this is the roster we will "enjoy" for the next season

I can tell you he's still working, and it's as simple as that : except Payne (who changed our cap room by 300K only in signing for 120% of the rookie scale, and can now be traded starting mid-August), no other player has signed, because there's still a possibility to use the maximum of cap room we can use, before we signed Bazemore, Mack, Scott...

If the actual roster was the final for sure and there was no other target, everybody would be signed already.

Wait - I thought that Thabo was signed and the SNT deal with OKC was a done deal. Is this not correct?

[Jamaaliver]

Wait - I thought that Thabo was signed and the SNT deal with OKC was a done deal. Is this not correct?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/495464831797837824[/tweet]

It's my understanding Thabo is indeed signed. But Mack, Scott and Bazemore are not yet official...