DFerry needs to make a BOLD Move to improve our Talent

[PandaKidd]

We dont need another PF LOLOL

A team of KI, Millsap/Horford/Carrol/Korver/Center would be interesting.

[theatlfan]

A team of Love and Irving? Two of the worst stat-padders in the league on one team. That will really get us places.

Never understood the mentality of reading a post and deciding that you don't like one throwaway line and sarcastically commenting on it while ignoring the rest. Maybe it's just me...

If you're not infatuated with Love, that's fine, but there are several names out there. I brought up M Gasol (which was carefully ignored in the retort) who was the DPotY last season but at C, you have names like R Hibbert, D Jordan, T Chandler, and the Real GM Message Boards most overrated in Omer Asik as well. At PF, Love is generally considered in the top 5 players in all the NBA but LMA is another big names while undercards like Millsap and Thad Young are also out there. All of these guys are UFAs too so it's not like we'd be negotiating for his return either. Now, sure, you may decide that you don't like a few of them, but there's enough there for you to decide that you like at least one of them too. So, pick a name that you actually like. Then realize that the chances of the landing that name would at least double - shoot maybe the measurement would written in terms of orders of magnitude - if you went out and landed Kyrie. would that worth his acquisition alone?

[ATLHawksfan21]

A team of Love and Irving? Two of the worst stat-padders in the league on one team. That will really get us places.

Never understood the mentality of reading a post and deciding that you don't like one throwaway line and sarcastically commenting on it while ignoring the rest. Maybe it's just me...

If you're not infatuated with Love, that's fine, but there are several names out there. I brought up M Gasol (which was carefully ignored in the retort) who was the DPotY last season but at C, you have names like R Hibbert, D Jordan, T Chandler, and the Real GM Message Boards most overrated in Omer Asik as well. At PF, Love is generally considered in the top 5 players in all the NBA but LMA is another big names while undercards like Millsap and Thad Young are also out there. All of these guys are UFAs too so it's not like we'd be negotiating for his return either. Now, sure, you may decide that you don't like a few of them, but there's enough there for you to decide that you like at least one of them too. So, pick a name that you actually like. Then realize that the chances of the landing that name would at least double - shoot maybe the measurement would written in terms of orders of magnitude - if you went out and landed Kyrie. would that worth his acquisition alone?

Lma and gasol are solid players but I have no desire to give a max contract to one dimensional players like Irving, love, hibbert or Chandler. When's the last time a team won a championship with a franchise player who doesn't play defense? Dirk in 2011 is about the only one I can think of, but even he played better defense than irving or love. Its even worse if that one dimensional player is injury prone. I am all for trying to land a superstar, but I have no desire to give out a max contract just for the sake of giving one out.

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[theatlfan]

Lma and gasol are solid players but I have no desire to give a max contract to one dimensional players like Irving, love, hibbert or Chandler. When's the last time a team won a championship with a franchise player who doesn't play defense? Dirk in 2011 is about the only one I can think of, but even he played better defense than irving or love. Its even worse if that one dimensional player is injury prone. I am all for trying to land a superstar, but I have no desire to give out a max contract just for the sake of giving one out.

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How many of the players who led their team to championships were finished products on the defensive end at 21 though? I know that MJ and Kobe have admitted to becoming more committed to D later in their careers - I'm sure there have been others. Durant, though not yet wearing a ring, hasn't been a particularly good defensive player until recently. Not to say that I wouldn't prefer to have someone with the desire from day one, but I also think someone who is 21 is more likely to get better than someone later in their career. Now, I'm not trying to imply that Kyrie will ever be elite defensively - he just doesn't have that type of length - but I think he could be good to very good with the right motivation and protection behind him.

[ATLHawksfan21]

Lma and gasol are solid players but I have no desire to give a max contract to one dimensional players like Irving, love, hibbert or Chandler. When's the last time a team won a championship with a franchise player who doesn't play defense? Dirk in 2011 is about the only one I can think of, but even he played better defense than irving or love. Its even worse if that one dimensional player is injury prone. I am all for trying to land a superstar, but I have no desire to give out a max contract just for the sake of giving one out.

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How many of the players who led their team to championships were finished products on the defensive end at 21 though? I know that MJ and Kobe have admitted to becoming more committed to D later in their careers - I'm sure there have been others. Durant, though not yet wearing a ring, hasn't been a particularly good defensive player until recently. Not to say that I wouldn't prefer to have someone with the desire from day one, but I also think someone who is 21 is more likely to get better than someone later in their career. Now, I'm not trying to imply that Kyrie will ever be elite defensively - he just doesn't have that type of length - but I think he could be good to very good with the right motivation and protection behind him.

I agree that one can always develop their game, like teague can also continue to do, but what turns me off with kyrie is his unwillingness to accept the challenge. Durant is actually a good defender and he puts in effort on the defensive end. Kobe also put in the effort on the defensive end when he was young and wouldn't back down from a challenge. I dont see kyrie putting in the effort on D and I have seen him shy away from the challenge more than once.

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[Jamaaliver]

Josh Smith spent 9 years starting for us and the big push from the fans to move him didnt start until a year or two ago when he was 7-8 years into starting and he had clearly reached his max potential by then.

These quotes are from 6 years ago:

What can we get for him in a package?

[Josh] has a load of talent. not quite sure he will be able to bring it to the next level...too much mental lapses and T lately. Will he ever be able to be a star a la Dominique?
if no, then let's move him before it is clear to everybody...

I wouldn't mind us trading [Josh]. Yes he is a great player, however if it would benefit the team then sure. I think if we want Al to move to the 4, then Smith needs ot be traded. He cannot play the 3 anymore. If he is traded, then I hope we could get a center in return. Who, I'm not sure.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=780652

There were a few forward-thinking Hawks fans who saw pretty early the benefit of moving Josh back when he was on the rise and his reputation was fairly high around the league. This is what I'm proposing we do with Teague. He could be a valuable cog to a young team in need of a steady veteran at PG or a contender in need of athleticism/speed in their back court.

I'm concerned we might be passing on other amazing trade opportunities to maintain this very calcified status-quo. If we want to be more than just a team that always makes the playoffs, but rarely does anything more than win a single series...we have to take bold action.

Missing the playoffs could have been a big step as we'd have gotten a lottery pick in one of the deepest drafts in history. We forfeited that action, but now we won't even consider acquiring young superstars in trade because at age 21 they're not a finished product?!?

Our record has gotten progressively worse since Ferry showed up. And there is no foreseeable improvement in the wings.

[ATLHawksfan21]

I could care less about our record when we have been killed by injuries this year combined with the fact that we were implementing a new system with an almost completely new roster. You have to be blind if you havent seen tremendous growth in this franchise since ferry got here. This is Teague' s first year under bud's system and I think its too early to write him off. Especially if its for a project like irving. If you were talking about Paul westbrook or curry I would be all for it. I think we should atleast wait to see how teague performs in the playoffs before everyone writes him off. If he plays well in the playoffs, i would be happy keeping him for another year and seeing how he continues to develop under Bud. Teague has elite athleticism at the PG position and he has put up elite numbers throughout april.

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[Jamaaliver]

and I think its too early to write him off. Especially if its for a project like irving.

How the H3LL is a 2 time All-Star considered a project when he came into the league as a teenager out-producing JT0?

Dennis Schroeder is a project. Kyrie is a young superstar still improving his craft. Do you honestly not see the difference?

I could care less about our record when we have been killed by injuries this year combined with the fact that we were implementing a new system with an almost completely new roster.

There is a team in the playoffs that lost their starting All-Star Center for the season early. They lost their surprisingly effective backup Center for a long stretch as well. They have a new coach. Have a new system. Lost other key contributors in the back court to injury for long stretches of time.

Brooklyn dealt with everything we did this year, still managed to WIN MOST OF THEIR GAMES.

Chicago lost D-Rose and Deng...still managed to WIN MOST OF THEIR GAMES.

There are always excuses for failure.

Ferry thought so little of this team he refused to make a significant trade to shore up the front line and even went on record as saying this is NOT what the team considers success. This team fell apart in February and DF was content to watch it burn and collect a high draft pick. We only made the playoffs because the Knicks/Cavs are awful and every other sub .500 team did everything in their power to tank.

[PandaKidd]

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[azuresou1]

Jamaal I think you're being a little shortsighted. What did you want Ferry to do mid-season after Horford went down, and while Millsap, Korver, Teague, Antic... basically everyone on the team was missing games with injuries? Trade for a mediocre player like Deng or Evan Turner?

Ferry did the smartest thing possible, which is wait and see how things play out. Patience is a virtue

BTW Brooklyn is going to pay more in luxury tax than any other NBA team is going to pay in salary. Consider the implications of that for anyone who's not a crooked Russian oligarch. Also consider that Chicago lost its star PG, a position which is not nearly as important as C. I don't believe they'd be doing quite so hot if it was Noah who went down. Besides I think fully healthy it's obvious Chicago is more talented than us to begin with... which is not a knock on us so much as it is an accomplishment for them.

[Jamaaliver]

^All fair and valid points. Keep in mind though, they were adequately prepared for (personnel-wise) to be without Rose. Last year they had Nate Robinson. They'd at least be solid at Center with Taj Gibson.

My main issue goes back to, if Center is way more important than Center..why didn't WE have a suitable backup plan?

Ferry took a hell of a gamble with a 34 year old PF and three Centers who have never contributed in the NBA to back up such an important position.

Ferry pretty much gave up on the team because he valued long-term success over the short term. He didn't view this season as being worth cashing in valuable chips. He even opted to draft foreign projects who are years from contributing rather than young, polished collegiate ready to play from day one.

If he didn't care to invest in this season, why should I?

[azuresou1]

I mean... I'd say that Brand and Antic have performed pretty admirably as starters considering what they were expected to contribute before the season and how much they're getting paid.

Besides, it's clear that this was a rebuilding season from the get go... Rome wasn't built in a day and all that

[ATLHawksfan21]

This was the most impressive playoff win since the first celtics series and jamaal still isnt enjoying it? Ferry has obviously done an amazing job.

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[ATLHawksfan21]

Maybe ferry just had more confidence in the squad that he assembled than you did. Ever think of that?

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[simon24]

Maybe ferry just had more confidence in the squad that he assembled than you did. Ever think of that?

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There really wasn't much Ferry could do. Only centers moved was Spencer Hawes and Byron Mullens, what the Hawks have now isn't much better than them.

Most big moves happen during the offseason. It's going to be interesting to see what Ferry does since he'll have a lot of big men with unique situations - Brand (free agent), Muscula (on non-guaranteed deal), Horford (healthy), Bebe (if bought out), Antic (expiring), Scott (QO), Ayon (QO). Any of the bigs get moved?

[PandaKidd]

Great win!

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[Geaux_Hawks]

Just from reading a few posts in the this thread, I see some posters would like to "upgrade" JT into Kyrie Irving. As it's been pointed out, they are definitely two different types of offensive players, but has anyone accounted for their defense? Last time I saw Irving play, he was a pretty bad defender. JT imo from the last time I seen him play, was a way better defender than Kyrie. Things could have changed, but I was wondering has anyone thought about that. I do agree that we need to find some top tier talent somewhere in the draft(actually thought we were supposed to be missing the playoffs this season) or FA via though. Maybe even trade for someone. If that guy comes in the form of an above average wing player, then we should probably have one of the best teams in the league by then. I would say that at least 4 out of 5 spots in the starting lineup would be above average starters, and our role players give us an edge to off the bench. I have been out of the loop for awhile. Who are some possible targets we could potentially see besides the draft?

[PandaKidd]

I think we will most likely target a wing scorer but our first priority has to be front court depth. C has to be addressed.



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[theatlfan]

I think we will most likely target a wing scorer but our first priority has to be front court depth. C has to be addressed.

I see this a lot and serious ?: why would you (and others) think this?

Do you not think we have quality in the post? We have an AS for each position.
Is it that we don't have numbers? I'm guessing that this offseason, we'll release Ayon and still have to choose 2 between a solid vet in Brand and a couple of intriguing young C prospect in Nogueira and Muscala to put on the roster. Our cup runneth over with big man depth right now.
Is it that we don't have quality in the numbers? Assuming Millsap and Horford garner 33 minutes/night (approximately what they got this season), then we're already splitting 32 minutes between Antic, Mike Scott, 2 of Brand/Muscala/Nogueira in the fight for minutes. I mean, sure, injuries are always a concern, but there is such a thing as overcompensating here as well. At some point, you're stealing from a (very) weak wing position to continue to pour more $$ into an already stocked big man position.

I guess the last option is that you want to move Horford over to PF in which case we have to trade Millsap - or Horford I guess. As we know, if you ever put yourself into a position where you force your own hand, then you should expect pennies on the dollar on the return. Is this what we really want to do? Put ourselves into a situation where we have to trade one of the only 2 AS on the team for pennies on the dollar? Just doesn't sound like there's a sound policy here - maybe there's a plan that I'm not seeing... ?

[ATLHawksfan21]

I think we will most likely target a wing scorer but our first priority has to be front court depth. C has to be addressed.

I see this a lot and serious ?: why would you (and others) think this?

Do you not think we have quality in the post? We have an AS for each position.
Is it that we don't have numbers? I'm guessing that this offseason, we'll release Ayon and still have to choose 2 between a solid vet in Brand and a couple of intriguing young C prospect in Nogueira and Muscala to put on the roster. Our cup runneth over with big man depth right now.
Is it that we don't have quality in the numbers? Assuming Millsap and Horford garner 33 minutes/night (approximately what they got this season), then we're already splitting 32 minutes between Antic, Mike Scott, 2 of Brand/Muscala/Nogueira in the fight for minutes. I mean, sure, injuries are always a concern, but there is such a thing as overcompensating here as well. At some point, you're stealing from a (very) weak wing position to continue to pour more $$ into an already stocked big man position.

I guess the last option is that you want to move Horford over to PF in which case we have to trade Millsap - or Horford I guess. As we know, if you ever put yourself into a position where you force your own hand, then you should expect pennies on the dollar on the return. Is this what we really want to do? Put ourselves into a situation where we have to trade one of the only 2 AS on the team for pennies on the dollar? Just doesn't sound like there's a sound policy here - maybe there's a plan that I'm not seeing... ?

Every one wants a traditional Center but they fail to realize that traditional Centers aren't exactly needed anymore.

Offensive spacing is greater than what ever small increase on defense that a traditional center would bring.