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Offical Jamal Crawford Thread

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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#31 » by conleyorbust » Tue Apr 7, 2009 2:23 pm

Harry10 wrote:wow, how much blame do you want to put on Crawford?! :roll: you are really going to blame him for everything? do you actually think that Curry, Murbury, and Monta are anywhere near on the same level as Joe Johnson?!?! :o


... I'm going to put blame on him for shooting 40.3% for his career. I'm going to put blame on him for being a mediocre defender. I'm going to put blame on him for taking 6 3s a game in GSW, most of them contested and off the bounce, and only hitting 33% of them instead of using his superior quickness and handle to take it to the hoop...

All and all, he isn't a terrible player. He does some nice things. I just have no clue why you think he's be a good fit here.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#32 » by evildallas » Tue Apr 7, 2009 4:29 pm

When the discussion comes to adding a combo guard to pair with Joe, I think back to the fact that we could have had Brandon Roy in that role if Billy Knight wasn't such an egotistical idiot with target blindness. Paying about 10M a year to Jamal Crawford to be less than half as good of player in that role would be foolish. I'd rather try to trade up in the draft and take a flier on Tyreke Evans as a combo guard. It would be far more economical and probably have a greater likelihood of success for the team. I don't think Tyreke Evans is the best strategy for the Hawks just considerably better than the Jamal Crawford project.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#33 » by MaceCase » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:17 am

As a guy who lives in New York I often tune in to Knick games to hear the pimpness that is Clyde and the entertainment that is Mike Breen talk about how terrible the Knicks are with no fear of being fired after the Marv Albert debacle. So anyway to classify Jamal.. I would say that he is Joe Johnson..if Joe was 3 inches shorter and 60 pounds lighter. Crawford may have the edge in athleticism but both guards are similar in that they are both ball dominators who have the skill to penetrate and finish but would much rather make a living on the perimeter. I of course in no way wish to diss the calibre of player that Joe is but feel that he has benefitted from being on winning teams with great veterans surrounding him giving him the clear mental advantage over Crawford who is reaching Shareef status in that he has never tasted the playoffs yet alone smelt them. So to agree with some posters it may be enticing to have a backcourt of Joe and Joe-lite but that only means suffuring through more years of Woody's horrible Iso offense as Crawford is no PG. To look at it from the point of view of Joe becomes the main distributor and ball handler, as a few analysts including Mike Breen himself stated, the reason why Crawford struggled so much in D'Antoni's offense and part of why he was traded (besides Lebron mania :roll: ) was due to the fact the offense calls for rapid ball movement and players being able to spot up and shoot from all over the floor both of which Crawford is not comfortable with.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#34 » by TONEGULLY » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:52 am

Crawford is a bum who is overpaid.
“We played them here, we played them there, we played them with their whole team, we played them without their whole team,” said Crawford of the four meetings. “We match up well with those guys. We definitely respect them, but we don’t fear anybody.”
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#35 » by old rem » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:49 am

evildallas wrote:Am I wrong about this? I thought Jamal Crawford was a conscienceless chucker? More so than even Ben Gordon. He's also proven over time that he lacks worthwhile PG skills. Given his price tag and the similarities I would rather go after Gordon. However, all things considered I'd rather have someone who can take some of the workload off of Joe and also create for others like Hinrich, Jack, Calderon, or Blake.


Crawford isn't a chucker and while he's not excellent as a PG, he's okay. What hr is,os not very good on D and a streaky shooter. If he's hot..he shoots planty..and that's good. If he's not hot,he seems fine with backing off and passing. Does not D a jumpshooter close enough to have much effect-that's the big thing.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#36 » by HMFFL » Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:11 pm

Jamal Crawford has NEVER played on a winning team. After he was traded by Chicago they played over .500 basketball the following season. It's not the type of guy that you acquire and he just changes. We don't need him unless we're going to be heavily compensated. For us to take on two years 20 million, I want two future first round picks with limited protection (top 5), so if Golden State's not willing to do that I see no reason why we should even bother.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#37 » by OptionZero » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:30 pm

Warriors fan here.

Scouting report on Crawford?

He has an exceptionally good handle that he can use to get his own shot any time, anywhere. His range extends out beyond the 3P line. He has good passing ability.

Unfortunately, his shot selection is horrendous . . . so horrendous that it negates nearly all of his penetration and distribution abilities. Crawford will have a number of possessions where he destroys his man and finds his teammates for easy buckets . . and then as many or more possessions where he takes quick shots with no passing at all. Thus, while he has the physical gifts to be a good point guard, he never learned the mindset. Whether it's his fault he played on bad teams or not, I believe that has negatively impact him so much that it's too late to correct his flaws.

Beyond his offensive talents and mental faults, however, Crawford contributes virtually nothing else. He's a negative on the glass, which is saying quite a bit, since he's a point guard and not expected to contribute much. There was a game that went to overtime, and Crawford and Stephen Jackson played a combined 100 minutes. You know how many combined rebounds they got?

...
...

Three.

three boards in 100 minutes. I think Jack had 2 of those, and Crawford got 1. Along the way, the Warriors lost (probably not BECAUSE of the lack of rebounding from those 2, but surely it did not help mitigate the damage done by the other team).

Crawford does not play defense. He has the footspeed to be effective, but no willingness to stay in front of his own assignment and no awareness of where he should be in the team's scheme. With a thin frame and no muscle development, he's vulnerable in the post against most shooting guards. That's a problem, since he's too weak to guard shooting guards and too lazy to guard point guards. You'd need an excellent shotblocking frontcourt and another backcourt defender to make up for him, and even then it hurts to have a such a weak link in your defense.


Having said all that, if there were a team that Crawford might be useful in . . . it's the Hawks. Joe Johnson is an above average rebounding guard and an excellent ballhandler. The glasswork makes up for Crawford's aversion to rebounding; the ballhandling means you can take the ball out of Crawford's hands instead of depending on him the way the Warriors had to w/o Ellis or any worthwhile guard most of the year. Johnson can also handle the opposing team's best perimeter scorer, and you have two shotblockers in the frontcourt. That lets you "hide" Crawford to some extent.

Additionally, Crawford's ability to push the ball on the break and space the floor as a shooter will be welcome in an uptempo offense. In the halfcourt, his shot creating ability can bail you out.

I see no credible backup PG on the Hawks roster (not that I watch many Hawks games, so correct me if i'm wrong). Crawford is an iron man (mostly because he doesn't use any energy on defense), so he can carry an offense while Johnson is out with his own scoring.


As for a trade with the Warriors . . . I don't expect Crawford to leave $20M on the table in this climate. He doesn't have postive trade value, but he's not a malcontent, so I hesitate to call him a huge negative. If the Hawks were willing to part with Speedy Claxton and Zaza's expiring contracts, I'd have to say it's a fair trade on the whole. We could use a banger in Pachulia, and Claxton can be bought out or rot on the bench for all I care.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#38 » by evildallas » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:20 pm

Thanks for the detailed scouting report. I would say that 95% of the Hawks fans are strongly against the idea of acquiring Jamal Crawford (myself included). As for the trade you suggested, the problem is that Zaza is already a free agent at the end of the year not an expiring deal.

We don't have the pieces to match up contract-wise with a Crawford deal even if we wanted. Logically we'd have to have the deal sweetened with either a pick or additional player (promising, low salary) in order to absorb his contract. We don't have a bad contract to swap. We don't have the right contracts In order to match salaries. We'd have to sign and trade someone (maybe Childress if he decided to come back) to include with the expiring deal of Speedy which is only 5.25M next year. Even without the sweetener we'd have to bundle several players to do it and it just isn't make sense to do that.

The caveat to this is if the Warriors were so intent on shedding Crawford's deal that they included their 1st round pick after some lottery luck (I'm not talking #1 overall, but #2 or #3). I'd consider swallowing his contract in order to get Thabeet. Of course, if the Warriors were going to do that wouldn't they prefer to deal Corey Maggette instead? I mean his contract is a lot worse. Regardless if we could hide most of his deficiencies, the Warriors would be better finding someone else to deal with.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#39 » by OptionZero » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:41 pm

Jamal Crawford's deal is neither long nor large enough to justify trading away a #2 or #3 pick just to get rid of him. As I said, he's a highly flawed player, but not a malcontent (ala Zach Randolph, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest back a few years ago, etc).

The #2 or #3 pick would be an easy shot at Ricky Rubio or James Harden, who would be worth far more to the Warriors than $9M in salary relief in one year.

I didn't realize Pachulia was a FA already, so that does make it harder to find contracts to match it all up.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#40 » by evildallas » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:11 pm

I agree that it isn't worth such a heavy sacrifice to move him. I'm just saying that is what it would take for us to want to add him. Like I said, I believe that 95% of the Hawks fans want nothing to do with Jamal Crawford.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#41 » by MaceCase » Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:05 am

My mistake, I never saw Crawford on the bulls much (allowance didn't allow for league pass) but from viewing him on both the Knicks and Warriors I never once thought to evaluate his individual defense believing niether squad placed any emphasis..er mention..er cognizance on it.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#42 » by parson » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:40 pm

Wow. 3 pages on Jamal Crawford. Imagine how long this thread would be if we talking about a half-way decent player.
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Re: Offical Jamal Crawford to Atlanta Thread 

Post#43 » by watch1958 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:04 pm

HMFFL wrote:Golden State won't get any value by trading Jamal Crawford, so they need to include a true prize, and that would be a draft pick. If they want to include a future first round pick with VERY limited protection (maybe top 2 protected) I would consider trading for him. If GS would like to include Anthony Randolph, I would be open to giving them some value, but I doubt they want to move the young man. It's going to cost them if they want to move the 20 million left on his contract.
crawford stinks, but if they have to eat his contract for two years they will eat it. they still don't have enough talent, so why trade some of what they do have to get rid of junk? Likely end up buying him out, where if he takes 70-75% he can get the rest back on an MLE deal from a team that wants him. You don't want him. You've built something nice there, why mess it up?

It isn't like he is a second or third year guy, who never got a chance to blossom in the right system. He's played for almost a decade, and the results are pretty consistent. When was the last time he was on a team that one more than 33 games? His last two teams have had two of the most chucker-friendly coaches in NBA history, and they both couldn't wait to get rid of him.
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Hawks trade Law and Claxton for Jamal Crawford! 

Post#44 » by ctorres » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:52 pm

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Re: Hawks trade Law and Claxton for Jamal Crawford! 

Post#45 » by lunarblues » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:55 pm

good trade for both teams if this is true.

for golden state, this clears the logjam at the 2 guard position and gives the team a more fluid lineup.

for atlanta, this makes sure that joe johnson doesn't lead the league in minutes played. also seems as though murray won't be back. could also mean that the hawks are indeed going to pick a point guard in this years draft.

good trade for both teams indeed.

it also seems that jamal crawford has to decline his ETO. which is pretty much a given. this trade works on trade checker.

could this be insurance in case marvin doesn't come back???
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Re: Hawks trade Law and Claxton for Jamal Crawford! 

Post#46 » by ctorres » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:57 pm

Jamal Crawford and Joe Johnson in the backcourt together could be way awesome.

Crawford at 6'5 and Johnson at 6'7 with both being capable of running the point.
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Re: Hawks trade Law and Claxton for Jamal Crawford! 

Post#47 » by lunarblues » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:58 pm

it could work that way, at least for short periods of time.

sund is one sly dog, i did not see this one coming.
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Re: Hawks trade Law and Claxton for Jamal Crawford! 

Post#48 » by HoopsGuru25 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:03 pm

So much for the national media's inside sources. I didn't here ANYTHING about this before right now. The Hawks get the better end in talent but I'm still a little confused. Crawford is not a pure pg but he has played there before. He eliminates the need to re-sign Flip but I can't imagine trading for him to play the 6th man role. I think he's going to be starting next year-I just don't know if it will be Marvin or Bibby's spot that he will take.
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Re: Hawks trade Law and Claxton for Jamal Crawford! 

Post#49 » by HoopsGuru25 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:08 pm

I'm also holding out hope that Sund wasn't dumb enough to throw the 19th pick in there. I will wait until the situations with Bibby and Marvin play out before I can completely judge the trade(because we didn't send any talent out)-but if the 19th pick is in there along with Law... then the trade looks pretty dumb.
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Re: Hawks trade Law and Claxton for Jamal Crawford! 

Post#50 » by livintoolive » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:13 pm

lunarblues wrote:it also seems that jamal crawford has to decline his ETO. which is pretty much a given. this trade works on trade checker.

could this be insurance in case marvin doesn't come back???




I believe an ETO has to be explicitly exercised, not declined; it is declined by default unless the player actively exercises the option. Regardless though, there really was no chance he was going to get out of his contract early, no matter how badly GSW wanted him gone; there's no way he makes that type of money on a new contract.
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