Alternative to Paul/Howard Plan

[myrak433]

That team wins us 38 games with ugly, ugly basketball, misses the playoffs, and caps us salarywise (since those guys will all want at least 3 year deals). That team is literally worst case scenario in the NBA, and I would probably give up all faith in the Hawks forever.

Fortunately Danny Ferry seems infinitely smarter than to put together that roster.

that team should be better than Teague, Davin Harris, Krover, Smoove, and Horford.

not defensively but offensively. if you have a coach that would give each player a defined role. Krover or Jenkins would be on the perimeter on offense. Monta would be the Pg (ball handle) and run PnR with Horford or Pick and Pop. Monta and Iggy would also be the number one and two penetrators to break the defense down. Al jefferson would also work PnR with Monta but mostly used to get buckets with his back to the basket. things he does well. but on defense we would play a zone mostly. kind of like the Spurs.... they don't really have elite individual defenders.

do you think Duncan at this stage in his career is a better on the ball defender than Jefferson?( only because of effort) I know Iggy is a better defender than Ginobili, in my opinion he is better than Kawhi Leonard or at least just as good. so now we compair Horfords defense to Tiago Splitter. am I missing something here? defensively the spurs (on paper) doesn't sound better than that team. its all about coaching the team to play defense. and a player on the team that will not let his teammates slack on defense. now with this team that maybe a problem.

That team wont be better offensively. Last year team skill set fit together which is why they were able to overachieve. Ferry did an excellent job building a team that fits a style and gave the team an identity.

Your team is just a clusterf*ck of player who styles of play dont mesh well together at all.

How would that team have any room to operate pick and roll when you only have 1 guy who can consistently shoot from the outside. on the floor?? the reason the spurs pick and roll is so deadly because they have shooters everywhere to space the floor which makes it very hard to guard. That team has no kind of spacing. Al jefferson isnt even a pick and roll player he is a straight iso back to basket player who is a high usage ball hog and scores on mediocre efficiency.

sure that is Al jefferson strong point of his game back to the basket but he can shoot from 14 feet in and he can be the roll guy in the PnR

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY5Rycu0p6o[/youtube]

Monta ellis isnt a good pick and roll player and a poor decision maker. He isnt a point guard at all. He is just another high usage low efficiency scorer.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbXsG8HkF30[/youtube]

How will al jefferson wont even be able to operate in halfcourt with no shooters.

lets see Krover, Jenkins, Horford, Lue Will all can shoot. Krover and Jenkins are just as good if not better than Green and Neal.

Defensively the spurs have duncan who is an elite defensive big even at age 37. duncan is a better defender because he is bigger longer more mobile and is significantly smarter. AL jefferson has no kind of defensive awareness and has no lateral speed. so he will never be a good defender not even close to duncan.

I will give you that one..... but Duncan is not more mobile than Horford. and once again we would have more players on the team than just those. we still would have the two first round draft picks. get a athletic big and another wing defender.

[PandaKidd]

Too many other big FA Big Men out there before i decide to resign smoove and most likely overpay him.

JJ Hickson
Blatche
Al Jefferson
DJ if the BOS trade falls through

are all options I would pursue BEFORE resigning Smoove. we need a Center. SF are a dime a dozen in the league. Iggy doesnt fit, we already have a SG in Lou Will , and hes 3 years younger.

IMO we need a CENTER and a replacement SF for Smoove that fits well with Horford.

who fits well with Horford?

Horford is a back to the basket player with a good midrange spot up jump shot. He is mobile and athletic. I would think someone like DJ would pair well with him. A athletic big man who cant shoot outside. Or someone like Blatche, who is equally athletic and can clean up around the rim.

My preference would really be someone like D12, without the D12 Diva Attitude which i think isthe 2nd coming of J Smoove should we get him. Al Jefferson would be a good choice.

Of course that depends if we draft Gorgui Dieng like the rumor mill is saying. If we draft him to we keep ZAZA?

[myrak433]

Too many other big FA Big Men out there before i decide to resign smoove and most likely overpay him.

JJ Hickson
Blatche
Al Jefferson
DJ if the BOS trade falls through

are all options I would pursue BEFORE resigning Smoove. we need a Center. SF are a dime a dozen in the league. Iggy doesnt fit, we already have a SG in Lou Will , and hes 3 years younger.

IMO we need a CENTER and a replacement SF for Smoove that fits well with Horford.

who fits well with Horford?

Horford is a back to the basket player with a good midrange spot up jump shot. He is mobile and athletic. I would think someone like DJ would pair well with him. A athletic big man who cant shoot outside. Or someone like Blatche, who is equally athletic and can clean up around the rim.

My preference would really be someone like D12, without the D12 Diva Attitude which i think isthe 2nd coming of J Smoove should we get him. Al Jefferson would be a good choice.

Of course that depends if we draft Gorgui Dieng like the rumor mill is saying. If we draft him to we keep ZAZA?

well I have to disagree wtih you about Horford being a back to the basket type player.

[jagstang76]

who fits well with Horford?

Horford is a back to the basket player with a good midrange spot up jump shot. He is mobile and athletic. I would think someone like DJ would pair well with him. A athletic big man who cant shoot outside. Or someone like Blatche, who is equally athletic and can clean up around the rim.

My preference would really be someone like D12, without the D12 Diva Attitude which i think isthe 2nd coming of J Smoove should we get him. Al Jefferson would be a good choice.

Of course that depends if we draft Gorgui Dieng like the rumor mill is saying. If we draft him to we keep ZAZA?

well I have to disagree wtih you about Horford being a back to the basket type player.

I'll second that. Horford has only a limited post game. His style is more workman: setting picks, making passes, getting the ball in the right spots to be effective. He will be fantastic in a SAS type offense.

I think he and D12 would be great together because they would compliment each other so well. Both will set picks and stuff, but Howard can focus on the post game and Horford on the midrange stuff. We won't take Howard away from the basket much so he can grab lots of offensive rebs. If we can put a couple decent shooters with them, we will have a very dangerous team offensively speaking.

[tcorbin]

If the Hawks can't get a top 10 player, then the best Ferry can do would be the Spurs lite. no matter how delusional some people are on here, Horford will never be Tim Duncan. Horford is an all star, but will never be a HOFer, Duncan is a HOFer.

Regardless of what free agent combination Ferry gets, Iggy, Jefferson, Pek, etc, that team will only be equal to a Joe/Josh/Horford team, a perennial 2nd round pretender.

Some people here are delusional and think the Hawks can recreate the Spurs team, because the Spurs have been able to draft quality players in the low first round and second round like Parker, Manu, Green, Splitter, but it will never happen, because they are still ignoring that Duncan anchors that defense, and creates space for Parker and Manu on offense.

Horford is good, but he is not Duncan, or Rasheed Wallace, or Ben Wallace. Teague is good, but he is no Parker, or Billups.

i'm okay with building a second round pretender with Iggy or Jefferson, but i also won't mind and would understand a Josh sign and trade, a Horford trade, and tanking for Wiggins, Jabari, Marcus Smart, Glen Robinson, or Willie Cauley Stein

[myrak433]

If the Hawks can't get a top 10 player, then the best Ferry can do would be the Spurs lite. no matter how delusional some people are on here, Horford will never be Tim Duncan. Horford is an all star, but will never be a HOFer, Duncan is a HOFer.

Regardless of what free agent combination Ferry gets, Iggy, Jefferson, Pek, etc, that team will only be equal to a Joe/Josh/Horford team, a perennial 2nd round pretender.

Some people here are delusional and think the Hawks can recreate the Spurs team, because the Spurs have been able to draft quality players in the low first round and second round like Parker, Manu, Green, Splitter, but it will never happen, because they are still ignoring that Duncan anchors that defense, and creates space for Parker and Manu on offense.

Horford is good, but he is not Duncan, or Rasheed Wallace, or Ben Wallace. Teague is good, but he is no Parker, or Billups.



i'm okay with building a second round pretender with Iggy or Jefferson, but i also won't mind and would understand a Josh sign and trade, a Horford trade, and tanking for Wiggins, Jabari, Marcus Smart, Glen Robinson, or Willie Cauley Stein

I endorse this message

[D21]

...
Regardless of what free agent combination Ferry gets, Iggy, Jefferson, Pek, etc, that team will only be equal to a Joe/Josh/Horford team, a perennial 2nd round pretender.

Some people here are delusional and think the Hawks can recreate the Spurs team, because the Spurs have been able to draft quality players in the low first round and second round like Parker, Manu, Green, Splitter, but it will never happen, because they are still ignoring that Duncan anchors that defense, and creates space for Parker and Manu on offense....

I endorse this message

I partially agree, but there's some missing points here :
- the old team with Joe, Josh and Al would certainly have been better with a better coach and systems like SAS uses, so if you think the new team would be on the same level, they would certainly be better if the new coach is better.
- SAS made great draft picks, but those picks have been optimized by the fact that Pop knew how to use them quickly. Parker, Ginobili and others could have reach half of their level or impact under some other coachs. There are players that know it, Batum is one of them, who was pick in late first round, and who was crossing fingers on draft day to be selected by SAS
Instead of staying on the same level for several years, doing defense and staying in the corner like he did with McMillan coaching, he would have been better used with Pop, and would be better than he's now, and all of that while playing with veterans like POR had, but making good playoffs each year.

Having a good coach help your roster to reach his potential, and also makes a better team in the long run by including rookies the rightest way.

At this moment, we are not sure about the level of Budenholzer, but if we are lucky and he's a bit like Pop, Ferry's picks won't be wasted and rookies should start to improve in the middle of veteran players.

[PandaKidd]

Tcorbin, Spurs philosophy is developing talent and players, not tanking for 1st round draft picks.

I mean lets be honest, when Ferry was hired we were staring at 2-3 year rebuild. He accelerated that by dealing JJ and Marvins contract. Now, he will most likely get rid of Smoov (IE not give him the max that he wants, and im convinced Josh will go somewhere else rather than sign a less than max deal with Atlanta).

IF we are not landing Cp3 and D12, which I dont think we will, I would like us to fill needs based upon the best players available. Compile a list of the best Centers, PFs, SFs and draft, FA acquire as many as we can according to our NEEDS.

Im ok if we dont land CP3 or D12 and I dont want to go chasing a second rate Superstar and try to act like he is a superstar (Iggy).

Ive always said the Hawks would have the money this offseason, but not much to spend it on (because D12 and Cp3 arent coming here). As long as we dont overpay for anyone, get some good talent, position players, and make a run NEXT season in the FA market.

[tcorbin]

Tcorbin, Spurs philosophy is developing talent and players, not tanking for 1st round draft picks.

I mean lets be honest, when Ferry was hired we were staring at 2-3 year rebuild. He accelerated that by dealing JJ and Marvins contract. Now, he will most likely get rid of Smoov (IE not give him the max that he wants, and im convinced Josh will go somewhere else rather than sign a less than max deal with Atlanta).

IF we are not landing Cp3 and D12, which I dont think we will, I would like us to fill needs based upon the best players available. Compile a list of the best Centers, PFs, SFs and draft, FA acquire as many as we can according to our NEEDS.

Im ok if we dont land CP3 or D12 and I dont want to go chasing a second rate Superstar and try to act like he is a superstar (Iggy).

Ive always said the Hawks would have the money this offseason, but not much to spend it on (because D12 and Cp3 arent coming here). As long as we dont overpay for anyone, get some good talent, position players, and make a run NEXT season in the FA market.

LOL literally

[PandaKidd]

Ok, do you think there is a Perennial HOFer in next years draft class? Wiggins might be the real deal, but he will have 1 year of college under his belt.

Granted you had 1 HOFer in Duncan, but their philosophy is developing Euro Talent and players nobody else wanted.

Manu 57th pick
TP 28th pick
Danny Green

If we intentionally tank, who do you take?

Just think that is not really what their overall gameplan is.

[Jamaaliver]

If the Hawks can't get a top 10 player, then the best Ferry can do would be the Spurs lite. no matter how delusional some people are on here, Horford will never be Tim Duncan. Horford is an all star, but will never be a HOFer, Duncan is a HOFer.

Regardless of what free agent combination Ferry gets, Iggy, Jefferson, Pek, etc, that team will only be equal to a Joe/Josh/Horford team, a perennial 2nd round pretender.

Some people here are delusional and think the Hawks can recreate the Spurs team, because the Spurs have been able to draft quality players in the low first round and second round like Parker, Manu, Green, Splitter, but it will never happen, because they are still ignoring that Duncan anchors that defense, and creates space for Parker and Manu on offense.

Horford is good, but he is not Duncan, or Rasheed Wallace, or Ben Wallace. Teague is good, but he is no Parker, or Billups.



i'm okay with building a second round pretender with Iggy or Jefferson, but i also won't mind and would understand a Josh sign and trade, a Horford trade, and tanking for Wiggins, Jabari, Marcus Smart, Glen Robinson, or Willie Cauley Stein

I endorse this message

Spurs lite can still accomplish what Indy did, top 3 seed, division winner, Game 7 of Eastern Conf Finals.

Something the Hawks have never managed.

And Horford is at least as good as Ben Wallace...

[Grover]

I think Ferry will employ a very different strategy if he has buy in from the owners. As opposed to spending big money on the free agent leftovers, I think it is much more likely he becomes the facilitator of clearing cap space for other teams by taking on players like a Shawn Marion and a pick for the space it offers the Mavericks. He can collect picks and even swap some for future picks while surrounding Horford with one year unselfish team players and some cheaper role players on short deals. I would not rule out Teague being a sign and trade with the shortage of decent point guards and their relatively high value this offseason. The biggest impediment is the Hawk's inability to put fannies in the seats and I fear the owner's falling for the star power draw argument instead of giving Ferry a longer leash.

[jagstang76]

[quote="Grover"]I think Ferry will employ a very different strategy if he has buy in from the owners. As opposed to spending big money on the free agent leftovers, I think it is much more likely he becomes the facilitator of clearing cap space for other teams by taking on players like a Shawn Marion and a pick for the space it offers the Mavericks. He can collect picks and even swap some for future picks while surrounding Horford with one year unselfish team players and some cheaper role players on short deals. I would not rule out Teague being a sign and trade with the shortage of decent point guards and their relatively high value this offseason. The biggest impediment is the Hawk's inability to put fannies in the seats and I fear the owner's falling for the star power draw argument instead of giving Ferry a longer leash.[/quote]

This is my thought as well. It makes sense if you can't get the players to fill your cap that you really want to find a way to take on other teams' junk that can come off the books soon. Marion is a good option. He would fit really well with what we need. I wouldn't mind a SnT Smith for Pau Gasol. We take on some extra salary and actually end up with a potentially better team that we aren't committed to for the long term. Those two deals would use our $30 mil in cap space for 1 yr, and we'd be a pretty solid team as well. It would be nice to resign Teague too.

Well... you get the idea though. It doesn't have to be that exactly, and that probably isn't possible. However, we can make use of the the cap we have, remain competitive, and facilitate rebuilding at the same time.

[Grover]

I like the potential of acquiring Gasol but I think the Lakers will wait for Howard to resign for one year before pulling off the great purge and leaving him with Nash, Kobe and a whole lotta minimum salary players. With the new CBA and the luxury tax penalties, it is possible that multiple first round picks could be the cost of dumping salary. Though Marion is a good fit, I keep wondering what Golden State might give up for taking on Beans or Jefferson though as a strategy it might work better in volume with lower priced expirings. Teams that feel they are on the cusp and large market teams would be the focus but imagine what Orlando might give up for taking on Turkoglu and his $6m guaranteed after he is released?

[parson]

LOL literally

tc, you often insult others' intelligence, yet when you're wrong, you don't seem willing to admit it. I don't think the posters you're laughing at are stupid - I just think you cannot understand what they're saying and you mistake your lack of understanding for their stupidity.

Tanking is LOSING ON PURPOSE. You seem ready to use it whenever a team loses even if they're trying to win. In SAS's case, David Robinson was injured. They didn't try to lose, they just didn't have enough firepower.

The argument is that winning teams have to have players and coaches with a winning mindset. You don't turn that off and on. Look at our own Hawks' recent history: we tanked and filled our roster with youngsters. Woodson kept saying to reporters not to blame him for the losing (while he did little to help) and the players got the message.

When we tried to to tell them to start winning, some of them never got the idea. Out of our entire drafted roster, only Al Horford, from a 2-time NCAA champion, has shown he is willing to do what it takes to win. Looking at a roster of only 3 players, I think Ferry has decided he needs to clear out old thoughts.

[tcorbin]

i'm okay with building a second round pretender with Iggy or Jefferson, but i also won't mind and would understand a Josh sign and trade, a Horford trade, and tanking for Wiggins, Jabari, Marcus Smart, Glen Robinson, or Willie Cauley Stein

Tcorbin, Spurs philosophy is developing talent and players, not tanking for 1st round draft picks.

I mean lets be honest, when Ferry was hired we were staring at 2-3 year rebuild. He accelerated that by dealing JJ and Marvins contract. Now, he will most likely get rid of Smoov (IE not give him the max that he wants, and im convinced Josh will go somewhere else rather than sign a less than max deal with Atlanta).

IF we are not landing Cp3 and D12, which I dont think we will, I would like us to fill needs based upon the best players available. Compile a list of the best Centers, PFs, SFs and draft, FA acquire as many as we can according to our NEEDS.

Im ok if we dont land CP3 or D12 and I dont want to go chasing a second rate Superstar and try to act like he is a superstar (Iggy).

Ive always said the Hawks would have the money this offseason, but not much to spend it on (because D12 and Cp3 arent coming here). As long as we dont overpay for anyone, get some good talent, position players, and make a run NEXT season in the FA market.

LOL literally

"Sources: Hawks Likely To 'Tank' If Howard Doesn't Sign

The Atlanta Hawks created cap space to pursue Dwight Howard this offseason.

With Howard appearing likely to sign elsewhere, sources say the Hawks likely won't pursue players to become a playoff contender in order to improve their odds in the 2014 lottery.

"I think we may all be UNDERESTIMATING number of teams considering tanking this year. Been flooded with calls from GMs re 2014 draft class," wrote Ford on Twitter.

Beyond Andrew Wiggins at the top of the 2014 draft, the deep class could include the likes of Aaron Gordon, Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, Andrew Harrison and Marcus Smart."





HAHAHA..... i called it .

Here is to Atlanta getting Dwight, everybody just hope for the best

[tcorbin]

LOL literally

tc, you often insult others' intelligence, yet when you're wrong, you don't seem willing to admit it. I don't think the posters you're laughing at are stupid - I just think you cannot understand what they're saying and you mistake your lack of understanding for their stupidity.

Tanking is LOSING ON PURPOSE. You seem ready to use it whenever a team loses even if they're trying to win. In SAS's case, David Robinson was injured. They didn't try to lose, they just didn't have enough firepower.

The argument is that winning teams have to have players and coaches with a winning mindset. You don't turn that off and on. Look at our own Hawks' recent history: we tanked and filled our roster with youngsters. Woodson kept saying to reporters not to blame him for the losing (while he did little to help) and the players got the message.

When we tried to to tell them to start winning, some of them never got the idea. Out of our entire drafted roster, only Al Horford, from a 2-time NCAA champion, has shown he is willing to do what it takes to win. Looking at a roster of only 3 players, I think Ferry has decided he needs to clear out old thoughts.

Hey, when you are right as much as me, its easy

[parson]

You were wrong when you said the Spurs tanked to get Duncan. Now you present Chad Ford as your "proof" and you can't see the joke in that? Chad Ford was the originator of a web page that was bought out by ESPN so that they could get into the web. You and I are as qualified as he. Now, he gets to talk to people - because of ESPN - that we don't, but that's his only advantage. Take a look at his work before you hitch your wagon to his star.

[PandaKidd]

LOL literally

tc, you often insult others' intelligence, yet when you're wrong, you don't seem willing to admit it. I don't think the posters you're laughing at are stupid - I just think you cannot understand what they're saying and you mistake your lack of understanding for their stupidity.

Tanking is LOSING ON PURPOSE. You seem ready to use it whenever a team loses even if they're trying to win. In SAS's case, David Robinson was injured. They didn't try to lose, they just didn't have enough firepower.

The argument is that winning teams have to have players and coaches with a winning mindset. You don't turn that off and on. Look at our own Hawks' recent history: we tanked and filled our roster with youngsters. Woodson kept saying to reporters not to blame him for the losing (while he did little to help) and the players got the message.

When we tried to to tell them to start winning, some of them never got the idea. Out of our entire drafted roster, only Al Horford, from a 2-time NCAA champion, has shown he is willing to do what it takes to win. Looking at a roster of only 3 players, I think Ferry has decided he needs to clear out old thoughts.

Hey, when you are right as much as me, its easy

How did I know this was being posted in here

I still dont see it, people throw the term around TANKING we dont even know how good this kid REALLY is. He has to play 1 more year in a college game before we can even evaluate him. We KNEW who LBJ and Kobe were because they were draft ready following their HS years.

Wiggins and Parker could BOTH blow their knees out in March, then what ? Tanking is so risky to do. I dont buy it

[PandaKidd]

I also think you are reading a little too much into Fords twitter account. I could predict the same thing, but we havent even finished free agency yet.

Ferry would be wise to understand the current fan base. Tanking for another season, he may lose his job, let alone any fan base thats left.

Hard to make the "tanking" call when FA isnt over yet.

Ferry loses D12 and basically our Roster looks like
Horford
Teague
Kwame Brown
Shawn Marion
Scalabrine out of retirement


THEN, MAYBE, ill concede hes losing on purpose. But we shold let FA play out. No moves are going to be made until AFTER D12 issue is over.