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Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season...........

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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#10 » by MaceCase » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:57 pm

The Lakers weren't dummies, they made the shrewdest deal out of everyone involved in the Dwight trade. All they gave up was damaged goods in Bynum (who played zero games as a Sixer) and a 2017 1st. A small price to pay for even a rental of one of the best bigmen in the game.

You're not moving Al, a former All Star at a position that no longer even exists on the ballots that has also suffered two major season ending injuries based on preexisting damage that he has had dating back to college for a top pick though. That's no more a pipe dream than expecting anything for Josh during a "career" year that saw him take the 6th most shots out of everyone in the league yet barely crack the top 20 in points per game. He was a chucker who chucked when he had no business chucking. Most intelligent fans could see that much the same as most GMs but I suppose we could continue the trend of continuously calling Josh a turd on these boards while still expecting a kings ransom in return for him only to be surprised that he indeed could not fetch even a beggar's ransom.

Al is also neither 32 years of age now or even when he'll be a free agent nor is he at the end of his 3rd NBA contract to expect that he would sign a contract extension like Parker did. Expecting him to sign an extension rather than enjoy his first un-restricted free agency at the end of his 2nd contract and in a summer that the new TV deal kicks in expanding the cap would be the biggest red flags of red flags ever.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#11 » by Christine-In-AZ » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:06 pm

Hello Hawk fans. I come in peace and with an in-vest-TA-ga-tive question...

Alex Len, Archie Goodwin, Suns '15 1st round and the Lakers '15 (top 5 protected) pick. (that pick goes top 3 protected '16 and then '17 if not conveyed earlier)

for

Al Horford


What you say?
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#12 » by atlantabbq99 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm

ChrisInAZ wrote:Hello Hawk fans. I come in peace and with an in-vest-TA-ga-tive question...

Alex Len, Archie Goodwin, Suns '15 1st round and the Lakers '15 (top 5 protected) pick. (that pick goes top 3 protected '16 and then '17 if not conveyed earlier)

for

Al Horford


What you say?


Maybe if the Hawks are rebuilding. But at the moment they are not, so no.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#13 » by Christine-In-AZ » Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:18 am

atlantabbq99 wrote:
ChrisInAZ wrote:Hello Hawk fans. I come in peace and with an in-vest-TA-ga-tive question...

Alex Len, Archie Goodwin, Suns '15 1st round and the Lakers '15 (top 5 protected) pick. (that pick goes top 3 protected '16 and then '17 if not conveyed earlier)

for

Al Horford


What you say?


Maybe if the Hawks are rebuilding. But at the moment they are not, so no.


Understood.

The "why not try for Horford?" Question(s) have cropped up again on the Suns board- viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1346985&start=900 ...and thought I should check the temperature.

As a Suns fan I've been pining for Al for years, and would probably "pay" even more than my test trade to get him out here. Again, I get a Hawks fans want to keep him unless overwhelmed.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#14 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:57 am

We would have to pay a lot more than the test trade to get him out of ATL. The rookies plus lotto picks is a good way to start the conversation.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#15 » by theatlfan » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:16 am

PandaKidd wrote:No team will trade a top 5 lottery pick anymore because they will just wait and try to sign him outright. Trades are going to be hard to come by because teams wont give up assets for nothing, and they draft picks are too valuable.

I think the Lakers were the last dummies to trade for a 1 year rental ala D12.

Have to whole-heartedly disagree here. The problem is that teams like CLE who gave up the last 2 #1 overall picks and MIA's picks for Love and NOP who sent a lightly protected 1st for Omer Asik (and his contract) could be doing just that. One could even argue that LAL paid less for D12 (an apparently injured Bynum + a protected 1st and eating a few contracts) than CLE for Love (Wiggins, Benett, plus MIA 1st w/o LeBron) or NOP paid for Asik (a protected 1st). The fact is that teams that think they are close to taking a step will give what they determine is fair value for players to get over that step. The bigger problem is that extracting a top 5 pick would have to work much like LAL - a team that thinks will be good (the West's answer to the superfriends was 4 AS in Nash, Kobe, Pau, and Dwight... what could go wrong?).

The problem with trading Horford for a top 5 pick isn't finding a GM that thinks he's worth that, the problem would be finding that GM for a team that would simultaneously not be rebuilding yet hold a top 5 pick. That a very unique set of circumstances there that very well may not exist except for a handful of times per decade... and we already had one team with this particular set of circumstances this off-season with the Love trade.

Jamaaliver wrote:With DF at the reins, I would have no doubt that absolutely nothing would get accomplished in trade this season. I don't know of another Hawks GM who is more deliberate and less successful at pulling off the big acquisition when the deal is on the line.

But with Bud at the reins, I am not sure what to expect either. Coaches typically focus on the more immediate view as opposed to the long term. I guess that Millsap and Horford stay the whole season unless the team falls off the tracks again.

Next summer, Millsap signs elsewhere and we replace him with a Center. Either Asik or Monroe. We then focus all of our energy on either extending Horford or trading him.
I don't know if the digs on Ferry or the Millsap forecast are particularly accurate (not saying they aren't, just think that it's a little early to tell on either), but I do think the 2nd paragraph there is the heart of the matter. Fact is that we don't know the current direction of the team. On the one hand, we have some talent, a team with a recent history of winning, and some cap space. That isn't typically a recipe for a team to tear down and rebuild. OTOH, we have an owner who wanted to bail before the recent scandal, a GM on an indefinite leave, a roster devoid of a superstar player, and a mayor who apparently is giving assurances that he'll keep the Hawks in Atlanta... yeah, if there's a recipe for "rebuild" that's pretty much it. At this point, I think I'd agree with you in thinking that the safe assumption is to think that Coach Bud isn't going to start trading his starters for future assets since he's was a Coach 1st, but it is just an assumption.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#16 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:03 am

theatlfan wrote:The problem with trading Horford for a top 5 pick isn't finding a GM that thinks he's worth that, the problem would be finding that GM for a team that would simultaneously not be rebuilding yet hold a top 5 pick. That a very unique set of circumstances there that very well may not exist except for a handful of times per decade... and we already had one team with this particular set of circumstances this off-season with the Love trade.

Funnily enough, that might actually be the Suns. The circumstances would have to be right but we could potentially have the #6 picks with other assets to package for Horford. It isn't exactly a top 5 pick but it's pretty close.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#17 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:01 am

Question for the board. Now that this story has picked up serious steam and made its way across the interwebs, it leads me to 2 questions:

A. Does the fact that we initiated talks to trade him make it more likely Horford walks away from this team as soon as his contract is up?

B. Does it make it MORE difficult for Ferry to return as GM, with AH openly aware that Ferr tried to trade him away?
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#18 » by MaceCase » Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:33 am

Every player not named Lebron or Durant knows that they are on the trading block at one time or another. Thinking otherwise means you are entirely delusional of your importance as a player and/or fail to recognize that the NBA is a business. You can't fault a GM for doing his job but if you do, well I guess that would just fall underneath divaness.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#19 » by PandaKidd » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:19 pm

I just think being rationale we are losing someone at the end of this year, possibly both DMC and PM.

Now maybe they think thabo and Payne can fill that void but then we have depth issues.

PM is going to have a market like Deng, lots of suitors but no one wanting to pay a ton because of his age. Plus its his last shot at a huge deal unless he signs a 1 year with us (which is dumb).

I feel he will go to the highest bidder.

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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#20 » by azuresou1 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:38 pm

PandaKidd wrote:I just think being rationale we are losing someone at the end of this year, possibly both DMC and PM.

Now maybe they think thabo and Payne can fill that void but then we have depth issues.

PM is going to have a market like Deng, lots of suitors but no one wanting to pay a ton because of his age. Plus its his last shot at a huge deal unless he signs a 1 year with us (which is dumb).

I feel he will go to the highest bidder.

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Given the new TV deal and possible changes to the salary cap I think it's actually very possible Millsap considers a one year deal with us. He's in the upper end of his prime but he's still only 29, it's not like he's ancient. He could very well play out this year and sign a one-year deal for more money in the hopes that he can fish for a bigger offer in FA in a plusher market.

Now I know you can say that Deng is also only 29, but Deng has played ~40% more NBA minutes than Millsap has (26K vs. 18.5K). The impact of all those minutes has had clear impacts to performance, and while Millsap is on an upwards trajectory Deng is clearly slowly declining. As a stretch 4 who plays decent defense he's also a hotter commodity than a 3 who can't shoot.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#21 » by PandaKidd » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:17 pm

I agree , but, guys like Millsap who are NOT household names, 1 year deals are dangerous. He blows his knee out his career could be over (at least guaranteed money wise).

I think its highly unlikely he would roll the dice on a 1 year deal and turn down a 3+ year deal somewhere else
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#22 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:47 pm

PandaKidd wrote:I agree , but, guys like Millsap who are NOT household names, 1 year deals are dangerous. He blows his knee out his career could be over (at least guaranteed money wise).

I think its highly unlikely he would roll the dice on a 1 year deal and turn down a 3+ year deal somewhere else

Yeah, I don't imagine there will be many players taking one year deal over guaranteed money, even if the salary cap is going to rise. The NBA is a business first and no one is going to "take care" of you based on what you've done but what you can still do.

Also, the cap increases will be gradual over the next couple of years.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#23 » by fuzzy1 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:49 am

ChrisInAZ wrote:Hello Hawk fans. I come in peace and with an in-vest-TA-ga-tive question...

Alex Len, Archie Goodwin, Suns '15 1st round and the Lakers '15 (top 5 protected) pick. (that pick goes top 3 protected '16 and then '17 if not conveyed earlier)

for

Al Horford


What you say?


Not a bad offer but I don't think we'd do it. We're gunning for a top 3 seed this year at first at least. Horford also fits the Bud offense like a glove.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#24 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:59 am

That certainly wouldn't be the final offer but it's good to know at least it's enough to get ATL's attention.
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#25 » by cloudng8 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:30 pm

Anyway the Rockets could net Harford or Millsap with what we have? Just curious what you guys think. Thanks!
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#26 » by Hawk Eye » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:15 pm

cloudng8 wrote:Anyway the Rockets could net Harford or Millsap with what we have? Just curious what you guys think. Thanks!


Not horford. Maybe Milsap though..
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#27 » by PandaKidd » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:05 pm

cloudng8 wrote:Anyway the Rockets could net Harford or Millsap with what we have? Just curious what you guys think. Thanks!

Millsap and 2nd rounder for Harden.

Make it happen
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#28 » by cloudng8 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:51 pm

PandaKidd wrote:
cloudng8 wrote:Anyway the Rockets could net Harford or Millsap with what we have? Just curious what you guys think. Thanks!

Millsap and 2nd rounder for Harden.

Make it happen


Throw in krover in and you have a deal! :D
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Re: Hawks "Shopped" Horford last season........... 

Post#29 » by Andrew McCeltic » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:02 pm

Celtics would probably give up Sullinger and expirings as a starting point...

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