Stein Reporting that ATL/MIL discussing Teague/Jennings

[PandaKidd]

This is the problem with over use of analytics, everyone can find a value, number, system somewhere to dismiss a player's accomplishments.

+102908300394890238290

How many of you are TIRED of hearing the ESPN guys quoting "The only 2 players to average 15PPG, 8 REB , 1 Block, 1 Steal last season were Lebron james and.......................JOSH SMITH"

Like seriously, are you trying to equate Josh Smith with LBJ?

The problem with stats is we get all this bull PER numbers and meaningless numbers like POINTS SCORED ON A TUESDAY IN MILWAUKEE WHEN RAINING. They look for any way to discount a player, and anyway to make a player better than they really are.

[MrPerfect1]

You really do not understand Advanced Stats do you? You think the person who created PER and Win Shares did so in an attempt to make Al Horford or other random player look bad? That makes absolutely no sense. The fact that numbers show Horford is slightly declining is not discounting a player, it is simply analyzing his performance on the court in comparison to his previous years.

Let me guess, you also think OPS, WARP, etc are meaningless and prefer to judge Baseball players by Batting Average and RBI right?

[PandaKidd]

Stats only tell half the story.

I can skew any numbers to give me a result I want. Sure PER numbers and Win Shares tell a story, but not the whole story.

Hence my example of the Josh SMith to LBJ Comparisons. IF anyone on this planet thinks that JOsh Smith is comparable to LBJ.................

I guess if ESPN overblown stats were so important, he would have landed a better gig than the Pistons.

Anyone who watch Horford vs Smith the last two season would conclude (besides the fact Horford was out 3/4 of last year)

Smith declined
Horford performed better

Maybe your stats dont show that, but again, theres more to Basketball than stats. Intensity, hustle, IQ, most of those dont show in stats.

[PandaKidd]

GO watch Josh Smith vs the Knicks at home this year. How badly he got abused by Melo.

Look at most of the Pacers series.

Then go look at Horford. Career years in PPG and REB , Steals. 2nd best APG of his career (with the addition of all the guards).

Josh Declined in PPG this year, FT%

Josh SMith WAS a great talent, his attitude will keep him from being that top tier player. Theres a reason why he and dwight are best buds

[D21]

That's right, but there's a point you can't ignore, and we will see how it turns without Josh : a big part of Horford points were assisted by... Josh from the high post. A big big part, and I hope that the new system will be efficient enough to match this play that was one of the best PF-C plays in the league.

[jvalanciunas]

#1: Al Horford is 27. While Larry is only 24, he will turn 25 during the first month of the season.
#2: Horford has hit his peak? So that is why he has improved his game every year he has been healthy.

fine, if your so confident, go to the Bucks board and propose the trade.

Horford also missed the all star game last year, which does sit well with Bucks fans. so at this point, both Sanders and Horford are good post players are didn't make the all star team, except that Sanders is younger and cheaper.

It's hard to discuss, intelligently, a matter with someone whose arguments are beaten down, only to see him say, "Oh yeah? Well what about this next argument?" Could you try to defend your own points, rather than just moving on to new ones?

You said that Horford and Sanders are 4 years apart. In truth, they are 2 years and 4 months apart.
You said that Horford has "already hit his peak." uga_dawgs24 pointed out that Horford has improved each year of his career - clear proof that he has not reached his peak.
You said that Horford has only 3 good years left - years where he will be "relevant," yet fail to note that that means that Sanders has only 5 more years, so he won't be "relevant" for that time, either.

When shown you were wrong, all you could do is challenge us to come to the Bucks' board. You didn't defend your ideas; you didn't say, "My bad;" you didn't even say ouch. You pretended your defeat never happened. Why should we care to debate a poster who cannot defend his posts? If you don't believe in your arguments, why should we bother?

no, no matter how you spin it, Horford is older than Sanders and his number have not improved as MrPerfect1 just proved. you stated that Bucks fans would love to trade away Sanders for Horford, and that is just delustional and that is a fact. you can homer up Horford as much as you want, but outside of Atlanta he is nothing speical.

[parson]

no, no matter how you spin it, Horford is older than Sanders and his number have not improved as MrPerfect1 just proved. you stated that Bucks fans would love to trade away Sanders for Horford, and that is just delustional and that is a fact. you can homer up Horford as much as you want, but outside of Atlanta he is nothing speical.

Just liked our guest's writing skills. I can visualize him with his hands over his ears, screaming, "NO, NO..." as he began this piece.

Dear sir, it is "spinning" to claim that Horford, at 2 years and 4 months older, is 3 years away from being over the hill but Sanders is young with his whole career before him. 2 years and 4 months. And, if you can't argue any better than this, why bother?

[nybluemeadow]

I don't really get the deal. i think Teage is alot better than Jennings. i was wondering if their is any way the Knicks could get Jeff Teague

[nybluemeadow]

Sanders is a true center...something HAwks fans have been looking for for years,to place next to a very good Power Forward. True Centers are very hard to come by,and Atlanta sticking Horford at the position proves it.
Homeboy,I'd take Larry over Horford 'erry day of the week

You mean the same "Larry" whom Horford pushed all over the court when we played? If Horford's stronger, then Larry aint no "true" Center. He's just a tall weakside shotblocker.

This, I guarentee you that these Bucks fans would all take Horford over Sanders if Al was on their team

As for Larry Sanders and Horford. I think Sanders has more value. If i was the Bucks, i wouldn't do a Sanders for Horford trade

[PandaKidd]

That's right, but there's a point you can't ignore, and we will see how it turns without Josh : a big part of Horford points were assisted by... Josh from the high post. A big big part, and I hope that the new system will be efficient enough to match this play that was one of the best PF-C plays in the league.

Thats 10000% correct, but that wasnt the argument. The argument was that Horford was in decline.

I agree with you all the way that this season we will see how Horford reacts when he is probably going to have to create more for himself

[mattlanta]

To be completely honest, I don't mind taking a chance on Brandon Jennings. Some scouts believed that his best case scenario when coming out of college a few years ago (he's only 23!) was Tony Parker. If he can improve his shot selection, he would be much more effective. (I know, I know, we've all heard that saying before about Josh Smith, but I'd be willing to try again with Jennings).

He's also played in Euro ball and does have superstar potential. He can be too aggressive at times, but perhaps a coach like Bud could tame him a bit. Teague, to me, still has a ton of potential as well but doesn't have that killer instinct that I would have liked from someone like him.

But with all that said, if it means that we're out of the running for Bynum if we were to get Jennings, I would rather us keep Teague. I think a front court with Horford and Bynum is much more dangerous than our front court with Jennings with Lou/Korver/Millsap/Carroll.

[PandaKidd]

Im the opposite. Id rather get Jennings who has a true Jump shot , lose teague, than take a chance on Bynum.

Jennings has tremendous upside. He has a PURE shot, great release, good elevation. He can penetrate and pop, unlike teague who is ONLY a set shooter and a penetrator. Theres 2 things I REALLY want my PG to have, and thats a true JUMP SHOT, and killer instinct. Teague has neither.

He may develop those traits, Jennings already has them.

we have to accept that we just cant get a great center this year. Pick up someone we can play (stiemsma) and see what happens over the course of the year or next years FA.

Jennings COULD be a superstar and will always have trade value. Bynum, could be a HUGE bust. He single handedly destroyed the 76ers last year.

[Takingbaconback]

Im the opposite. Id rather get Jennings who has a true Jump shot , lose teague, than take a chance on Bynum.

we have to accept that we just cant get a great center this year. Pick up someone we can play (stiemsma) and see what happens over the course of the year or next years FA.

Jennings COULD be a superstar and will always have trade value. Bynum, could be a HUGE bust. He single handedly destroyed the 76ers last year.

I don't think Jennings has a consistent jump shot... Could get a lot better though, he is still pretty young.

And I would put my money on Bynum getting healthy and becoming one of the best centers in the NBA like he was before last season than Jennings becoming a superstar

[PandaKidd]

Have you not read the reports coming out from Philly about Bynums knees? DEGENERATIVE, NO HOPE of any cartilage , Bone on bone.

I mean dude goes bowling and blows a knee out that costs him the whole season?
Dont you think the Lakers knew what they were getting rid of ?

I have to think they know something we dont. Especially since Bynum isnt willing "to work out" for any teams.

Jennings is raw, needs development. Same with Teague. But player vs player, Jennings has a much more pure and good looking jumper than Teague.

WHen does teague struggle? when he cant penetrate. We he has guys that can play him on the perimeter and he cant slash, he gives up. Because he has NO game outside of driving the lane and laying it up. He has a decent floater from time to time, but he doesnt showcase it enough. He has NO pull up jumper because he has a set shot. All great PGs have that jumper, CP3, Parker, Dwill (offensively great), Westbrook, etc.

Curry has such a QUICK release he can get away without much elevation. PGs that can elevate and shoot spread the floor, the can drive and pull up, its just another weapon.

Go watch Jennings highlights , its dunks, passes, jumpers, floater

Go watch Teague highlights, its ALL DUNKS and dribble penetration.

[mattlanta]

Im the opposite. Id rather get Jennings who has a true Jump shot , lose teague, than take a chance on Bynum.

Jennings has tremendous upside. He has a PURE shot, great release, good elevation. He can penetrate and pop, unlike teague who is ONLY a set shooter and a penetrator. Theres 2 things I REALLY want my PG to have, and thats a true JUMP SHOT, and killer instinct. Teague has neither.

He may develop those traits, Jennings already has them.

we have to accept that we just cant get a great center this year. Pick up someone we can play (stiemsma) and see what happens over the course of the year or next years FA.

Jennings COULD be a superstar and will always have trade value. Bynum, could be a HUGE bust. He single handedly destroyed the 76ers last year.

I don't think we'd be able to get both Jennings and Bynum.

[PandaKidd]

Agreed. At this point id take Jennings, bigger upside.

Bynum is a HUGE gamble. Could be a HUGE payout.

Jennings worst aspect is he doesnt workout and we trade him. Bynum worsts aspect is he doesnt play, and we waste money ala 76ers.

Id take Jennings + Stiemsa > NO jennings and Bynum

Risk wise of course

[mattlanta]

Agreed. At this point id take Jennings, bigger upside.

Bynum is a HUGE gamble. Could be a HUGE payout.

Jennings worst aspect is he doesnt workout and we trade him. Bynum worsts aspect is he doesnt play, and we waste money ala 76ers.

Id take Jennings + Stiemsa > NO jennings and Bynum

Risk wise of course

Sorry, I misread your post earlier. I just think us taking a shot at Bynum would make more sense considering Horford is a more natural 4 and that we just drafted a point guard that could very well be the league's next Rajon Rondo. I don't know if I would pick a potential PG superstar over a potential C superstar simply because we haven't even given Schroeder a shot yet (we haven't even seen him play a single game of basketball yet!).

[Takingbaconback]

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Andrew%20Bynum

2011-2012: career high 35.3 minutes a game, 18.7 pts, 11.8 rebs, 1.9 blocks, 55.8 fg%, 69.2 ft%.

PER from 2008-2012: 22.56, 19.99, 20.20, 21.06, 23.01

Just needs to get healthy to be one of the best if not the best center in the NBA
The guy can play superb one on one and help defense, a true 7 footer who changes many shots at the rim with his 7'3" wingspan and athleticism. He is one of the few franchise changers in this FA, and I think he would be worth taking a risk on. If he gets injured, Hawks can move Horford to the 5 and Millsap to the 4 so it isn't a complete loss. It also allows them to get a higher lottery pick as well. If this guy pans out for them, the reward is going to be tenfold the loss.

[dms269]

Agreed. At this point id take Jennings, bigger upside.

Bynum is a HUGE gamble. Could be a HUGE payout.

Jennings worst aspect is he doesnt workout and we trade him. Bynum worsts aspect is he doesnt play, and we waste money ala 76ers.

Id take Jennings + Stiemsa > NO jennings and Bynum

Risk wise of course

Jennings worst aspect is we sign and trade for him and are paying him upwards of 12+M a year (reports are that is what he is demanding). At that contract it will be very difficult to move him for anything less than a salary dump.

Everyone is saying how sketchy his shot selection is but how we could be better, which sounds way too much like Josh Smith. He has had 1 season where he shot better than .400 from the floor. Compared to Teague who had 1 season where he shot worse and in both of his starting seasons, Teague shot better than .450%.

[Rod700]

He has had 1 season where he shot better than .400 from the floor. Compared to Teague who had 1 season where he shot worse and in both of his starting seasons, Teague shot better than .450%.

Exactly. I'm not interested in Jennings or Bynum or Ellis. It's not good to make a move just to be making moves. Wait for the right players and then take the opprotunity to go after them. Don't just acquire a bunch of medicore assests.