Horford injured.

[PandaKidd]

In the Eastern Conference, this is who he goes against: (which I understand).
Re-check your numbers.

if you frustration is that he could NOT have gotten injured had we a center, I get it, but also understand he could have gotten injured doing anything. Im not sure Im willing to make the leap that this "out of position" stuff is why he is injured, and that having a true center would have saved him.

He SAID it was hurting him, his dad said it was hurting him and others made the same claim. It's not a "leap" if he called it 2 years ago. I don't understand how some of y'all can keep pretending that his injury came as a surprise when Horford called it.

Maybe the problem is that some of you could only see the numbers. There are disadvantages to any philosophical method, y'all need to acknowledge that. I'm sure my reliance on experience and, what they call in baseball, "the book" has kept me from seeing the reality at times. But we "saw" this clearly (you can go back and look it up) before it happened.

Again, i dont really care what Al and his dad have to say. To make the leap that guarding guys 2-3 inches bigger than you causes pectoral tears and season ending injuries, then, well the NBA isnt for you. Cry me a river.

No basis for any factual conclusion. NONE. Horford wants to play PF because he could PROBABLY be a top 5 PF in the LEAGUE if he was allowed to play there. It doesnt cause injuries.

This is the NBA. not cheerleading.

[PandaKidd]

I respect both of you guys too much to argue semantics. But I think we can all agree that because of this major injury for the second time in 24 months, it is now paramount that we find a big Center either to play next to AL or simply replace him.

(NOTE: AL is now my favorite Hawk of All Time, replacing Mutombo and Smitty in 1st place. I don't want him to go, but I want to see him be successful.)

Understandable.

I agree also, Center has to be on the list

[PandaKidd]

Last year we should have traded Josh Smith for anything. Because we got nothing in return.

We took his salary and signed Paul Millsap.

Its nice to think that, but its not true, i mean not technically.

Millsap is 9.5 Million

HAD we gotten a viable option for Josh Smith, or even a draft pick, whole landscape would have changed.

Do we really sign Elton Brand to 4 million had we landed a CENTER like Pau? Would we need Millsap with Pau?

Ayon, Antic? 3 million

Youre prob right we get someone top tier at another 10-12 million per we prob dont sign Korver, which IMO Korver is a luxury not a NEED. Hes a NEED NOW for this team, but had we a real scoring big not sure we need Korver with lou will. One of them would have been let go or traded IMo.

[MaceCase]

People need to check their hindsight. The Lakers weren't clamoring over Josh in the least for Pau. Sund made the offer and was removed from GM coincidentally when the Lakers were reported to desire more to sweeten the pot. I imagine that the ASG finally decided to save themselves from Sund pulling off yet another Hinrich debacle where they threw away assets for an aging win now piece.

Keep in mind that either of Marvin or Zaza already had to be penciled in just to make salaries match so that "sweetener" was likely Teague or a pick. Ferry took over soon after and walked away from that negotiation and no one could blame him especially once you considered that even after the Joe and Marvin trades there wouldn't have been cap left to even dream about either of Dwight or Paul. Giving up Josh, Jeffrey/picks, Marvin/Zaza and cap space for Pau? No, not worth it.

The thing that people need to reconcile is that Josh simply was not considered valuable across the league to anyone that is not as **** crazy as Joe Dumars and even he patiently waited to overpay Josh. People need to stop utilizing some middle-schooler's rambling on Bleacher Report and their imagination as proof of Josh's value. The best deal that Ferry could get right up to the deadline was Luc Richard Mbah Moute ( player owed 2 more million a year than Carroll) Ekpe Udoh (a player making 700K more than Elton) Beno Udrih (an expiring) and a very protected future 1st that the Hawks likely wouldn't see for years given how terrible the Bucks are.

This was it, the best deal for Josh and people still think that the trigger should have been pulled just to say they got something for him? Why? Ferry managed to acquire a defensive wing, backup F/C and PG that are all better and cheaper than that crap sandwich that was offered just by letting Josh walk. That's the something he got all while also being able to resign key players and pursue another impact free agent in Sap.

[Jamaaliver]

People need to check their hindsight. The Lakers weren't clamoring over Josh in the least for Pau. Sund made the offer and was removed from GM coincidentally when the Lakers were reported to desire more to sweeten the pot. I imagine that the ASG finally decided to save themselves from Sund pulling off yet another Hinrich debacle where they threw away assets for an aging win now piece.

There were a few different conversations had in 2012 regarding Josh for Pau. But, I recall this time last year after LA panicked, fired Mike Brown after a week that they were the ones discussing the trade and Ferry promptly rebuffed them. This was a few months after Ferry had offered Josh that extension (which Smoove promptly declined).

Sources: Lakers Have Had Internal Discussions On Pursuing Josh Smith

The Los Angeles Lakers have had internal discussions for several months about acquiring Josh Smith from the Atlanta Hawks, according to sources.

Sources say, however, that the Hawks have no interest in trading Smith for a package centered around Pau Gasol.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... Josh_Smith

[MaceCase]

Yea, Ferry took over in June and nixed earlier negotiations by Sund. I detailed the very reasons why he did in the very next paragraph. The Lakers having INTERNAL discussions later in November doesn't change that fact especially considering that they had a fractured front office in the wake of Dr. Buss' illness and passing. The further fact still remains that any trade would never have been a simple 1 for 1 so it truly needs to stop being portrayed in that way.

[azuresou1]

People need to check their hindsight. The Lakers weren't clamoring over Josh in the least for Pau. Sund made the offer and was removed from GM coincidentally when the Lakers were reported to desire more to sweeten the pot. I imagine that the ASG finally decided to save themselves from Sund pulling off yet another Hinrich debacle where they threw away assets for an aging win now piece.

Keep in mind that either of Marvin or Zaza already had to be penciled in just to make salaries match so that "sweetener" was likely Teague or a pick. Ferry took over soon after and walked away from that negotiation and no one could blame him especially once you considered that even after the Joe and Marvin trades there wouldn't have been cap left to even dream about either of Dwight or Paul. Giving up Josh, Jeffrey/picks, Marvin/Zaza and cap space for Pau? No, not worth it.

The thing that people need to reconcile is that Josh simply was not considered valuable across the league to anyone that is not as **** crazy as Joe Dumars and even he patiently waited to overpay Josh. People need to stop utilizing some middle-schooler's rambling on Bleacher Report and their imagination as proof of Josh's value. The best deal that Ferry could get right up to the deadline was Luc Richard Mbah Moute ( player owed 2 more million a year than Carroll) Ekpe Udoh (a player making 700K more than Elton) Beno Udrih (an expiring) and a very protected future 1st that the Hawks likely wouldn't see for years given how terrible the Bucks are.

This was it, the best deal for Josh and people still think that the trigger should have been pulled just to say they got something for him? Why? Ferry managed to acquire a defensive wing, backup F/C and PG that are all better and cheaper than that crap sandwich that was offered just by letting Josh walk. That's the something he got all while also being able to resign key players and pursue another impact free agent in Sap.

+1

[PandaKidd]

I still think 2 years ago, after the first AH Pectoral tear, when Josh Smith was at an ALL TIME HIGH stock value and making very little money , we could have traded him for something. Something of value

Trying to argue that we got Millsap in this deal because Josh walked, I get it, but are we really much better with Millsap?

I mean we all scratched our head when we signed him

[parson]

No, we assumed Ferry signed him to trade him. We couldn't get what we wanted for Smith and, by signing Millsap, we're still trying.

Although, we may have to keep him. Who could have guessed that he would raise his game so much?

Good problems.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[PandaKidd]

Dude, go look at the board. When Millsap was signed we all went "WHAT?"

We all thought Ferrys first move was going to be a CENTER, then we go out and sign Millsap to a 2 year deal? Trade bait, sure, but.....for what? Asik?

[parson]

Millsap is a huge victory for Ferry. If we'd known how much of an improvement Millsap was going to be over Smith, we'd have agreed to pay more.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[PandaKidd]

Millsap is a huge victory for Ferry. If we'd known how much of an improvement Millsap was going to be over Smith, we'd have agreed to pay more.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using RealGM Forums mobile app

But Millsap doesnt fit the team long term.

Either he or Horford is going to be traded. Unless we somehow land a top 10 Center in the draft courtesy of the Nets.

[parson]

If Millsap can play SF, he'll fit wonderfully.

Players who can score with the ball in their hands are rare and valuable. You make room for guys like that.

[PandaKidd]

If Millsap can play SF, he'll fit wonderfully.

Players who can score with the ball in their hands are rare and valuable. You make room for guys like that.

I guess my question is how do we make the team better in your eyes?

Teague PG
Millsap SF
Horford PF
?????
Korver at SG????

So the question becomes who do we get at Center? There is no center that fixes our needs that we can get through the draft or FA. Not that I see. Maybe Randle? Still a rookie and no idea where we fall in the lottery. No D12, No Cousins, no Pek , who am i missing?

I see us HAVING to trade AH or Millsap to get the Center we will need. OR the superstar that will get other superstars to come here. We will have to trade someone and its lookinng like Millsap more than anyone else at this point.

We need our James Harden moment, where we have the cash and space to get him and the assets to give up

[parson]

Everyone wants a James Harden moment.

With our present lineup (including Horford), we're already able to score plenty. If we can find a defensive Center - to take the place of DeMarre Carroll - we'll be very interesting.

[PandaKidd]

Everyone wants a James Harden moment.

With our present lineup (including Horford), we're already able to score plenty. If we can find a defensive Center - to take the place of DeMarre Carroll - we'll be very interesting.

We didnt have any really good jump shooters IMO.

Horford was a spot up shooter. Cant shoot off the dribble.
Teague is the same way. Thats why he shoots floaters and not jumpers in the lane.
Korver struggles to shoot on the move but mainly because I dont think he can take many people off the dribbler
Millsap it wasnt his strong suit.

Lou Will is that jump shot guy, but he wasnt starting. I think we need a Center and a legit shooting guard and move Korver to the bench (25-30 min bench guy so not REALLY a bench player). Agree?

I just dont see HOW we get the center without trading AH or MS.

OR

We need a legit SF that can pull up like PG, Melo, KD etc. Shooting 3s/4s make it so you can have a defensive Center who doesnt score.

[PandaKidd]

FWIW I think this team as currently contstructed would be TERRIBLE with an Asik/Horford/Millsap front court.

It would be UGLY. You would basically tell the opposing team to play a box and 1 on Korver and this team would have ZERO outside shooting or shooting off the dribble

[SBM]

The problem I see with the draft is it is most likely top 3 or bust as usual.

Teague
Korver
Parker/Wiggins-Top 3 Draft
Horford
Gortat-FA pick up


Teague
Korver
Hayward/Evans FA pick up
Horford
Embiid- Top 3 Draft

Teague
Smart/Levine/Exum- Top 7 pick not sure any of these guys pushes us to another level
Korver
Horford
Gortat-FA pick up

All of that is next year and will take some luck for us to get a lotto pick.

As for this year.

Teague
Korver
Demarre
Millsap
Brand

We could really use some upgrading.

Best deals
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mup2nnn

Magic: Bebe and Dennis
Hawks: Vucevic

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lb69cbe

Raptors: Bebe and Dennis
Hawks: Jonas Val

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l2qb2mx

Sixers: Hawes
Hawks: Brand and Bebe

Teague
Korver
Demarre
Millsap
Vucevic/Val/Hawes

Would all make this team much better this year and possibly in the future.

[Jamaaliver]

FWIW I think this team as currently contstructed would be TERRIBLE with an Asik/Horford/Millsap front court.

It would be UGLY. You would basically tell the opposing team to play a box and 1 on Korver and this team would have ZERO outside shooting or shooting off the dribble

Perhaps, but I'd think the ideal would be to work the three of them as a rotation. With AL ideally working less than 17 minutes at Center.

Also, keep in mind we've seen Asik be a steady contributor on playoff teams in the past. The Bulls were consistent #1 seeds with a frontcourt rotation of Asik, Noah and Boozer (both of whom are less offensively talented than AL and Paul).

We've seen Houston spread the floor effectively with Asik as a starter on their playoff squad.

I don't advocate Asik, Horford, Millsap playing too much together, but we have enough shooters to spread the floor and those three would be hell on the offensive glass.

[Jamaaliver]

As for this year.

Teague
Korver
Demarre
Millsap
Brand

We could really use some upgrading.

Best deals
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mup2nnn

Magic: Bebe and Dennis
Hawks: Vucevic

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lb69cbe

Raptors: Bebe and Dennis
Hawks: Jonas Val

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l2qb2mx

Sixers: Hawes
Hawks: Brand and Bebe

Teague
Korver
Demarre
Millsap
Vucevic/Val/Hawes

Would all make this team much better this year and possibly in the future.

I REALLY like Vucevic, but even I'm not willing to spend two 1st round draft picks to get him.

There's no way I'd give up two 1st round draftees to rent Spencer Hawes for 5 months.

I have no opinion on Jonas Val...