Summer League Thread

[PandaKidd]

Payne will be fine. Highlights I've seen he looks good. Little sloppy. Takes time to get in sync and keep in mind he's playing with NO STARTERS.
Summer league is like you playing a pick up game at LA fitness with 4 guys you don't know.

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[theatlfan]

Just finished watching the recording of the 1st game against WASH. Some notes:

Adreian Payne (30 Mins; 5-15 FG; 0-4 3PT; 2-2 FT; 12 PTS; 7 REBS; 1 AST; 1 ST; 4 TOs; 8 PFs): His balding and shaven head along with his semi-hunched gait makes him look like he's 30 and trying to pass for 18 which doesn't help the age factor on his draft grade. On the plus side, this dude ran the entire freaking game - the d@mn energizer bunny probably got tired watching him. Made several hustle plays including a steal in transition and staying with a leak out. Impressive athleticism / jumping ability - I'm sure we've all seen the put back dunk, but he also skied for a block (somehow not on the stat sheet). Also, he seemed willing to mix it up inside against Orton who looked like he went about 3 bills. At least 2 of the PFs came from Payne not taking any gruff from Orton. On the negative side, his scouting report has low B-Ball IQ on it (particularly concerning since he was a SR pick and an older one at that) and he was pretty rough in certain area here albeit some of that can be explained away as being his 1st game. He came out of the gate when WASH ran a delayed 3/4 PNR with Porter and Khem Birch for 3 baskets out of their 1st 13 (or so) points, and his passing definitely left something to be desired (as in he didn't pass unless it was clearly part of the play - could be his marching orders but still didn't look good). Rough shooting night as well. Has a hitch in his delivery where he brings the ball low almost between his knees before coming up with the shot specifically in catch and shoot situations. Has the ability to pound dribble to clear the close out then shoot off the dribble. On the plus side, it looked like his shot was just off instead of broken.

Lamar Patterson (31 Mins; 3-7 FG; 1-4 3PT; 3-4 FT; 10 PTS; 3 ST; 2 TOs; 5 PFs): Ever seen a guy that didn't look like he did much during the game but you look at his numbers and think "when did that happen?" Well, Patterson was the antithesis of that in this game - I would have figured his numbers were much better. This is partially due to us giving him the most responsibility in the 2Q which was the only quarter we won. I'm sure that we've all read about how Glen Rice and Otto Porter chewed us up and spit us out - well, that was when someone other than L-Patt was covering him. Not saying he was a shut down defender or anything, but he wasn't dominated like all the others were either. Very active hands on D. Played against the PG at one point - squatted two passes away and then stripped a driver when helping on the nail. Led the O in limited stretches and the O looked very calm and relaxed when he led it; didn't have any official assists but made some nice passes and I'm sure there were some "hockey assists". Played on the weakside a lot and seemed to move to the right areas of the floor. Clearly the best wing player on the squad in the 1st game.

Mike Muscala (26.5 Mins; 2-8 FG; 0-3 3PT; 7-7 FT; 11 PTS; 5 REBS; 2 AST; 1 ST; 1 BL; 3 TOs; 2 PFs): Seems more confident than last year and it showed. Body looks more toned. Shooting Release is quicker. Shows some handle with some straight line drives specifically from the top of the key. Offense looked more relaxed when he was on the perimeter over Payne (significant experience advantage here shouldn't be overlooked though). Had some nice cross court passes to open shooters off drives which is an interesting skill for a C. Was beat back on D at least once. Didn't stop his feet when setting screens. Shot wasn't falling, but like Payne, it looked more like it was off than broken.

Walter "Edy" Tavares (11 Mins; 3-4 FG; 6 PTS; 2 REBs; 1 BL; 4 PFs): Didn't need a program to figure out when he entered the game. Yes, he's very tall, but more notably, his body looks natural - not too skinny or lanky - which strikes for an imposing figure since he's 1/2 a head taller than the opposing C. Was impressed with his game. Will mix it up inside. Went toe to toe with Daniel Miller (6'11" 275 lbs) most of the time and never backed down. Not someone who tries to put the ball on the floor. Actually has some touch around the basket. When players drove at him, he didn't stay straight up - would turn into the driver which was at least 2 of his 4 PFs. Didn't go for blocks as I would have suspected he'd do a lot of at his height.

Dennis Schröder (32.5 Mins; 2-13 FG; 0-2 3PT; 4-4 FT; 2 AST; 2 REBs; 2 TOs; 5 PFs): Body looks more toned than last season and slightly bigger. Announcer kept talking about how he needed more than 1 speed, but he seemed to have at least 2 and a nice hesitation move that would throw defenders off balance especially when coupled with a screen. Sure, he could have more speeds to play at, but it wasn't like he had any issue getting to where he wanted or that he was clearly outrunning his teammates or the like. Has an almost innate ability to recognize when he can get past the defender and can then keep him on his hip while going wherever he wants to go on the court. Interesting array of shots near the basket (floaters, layups, even had a mini-hook) but none went in. Seemed to want to pass especially early in the game - passed up on easy layups early. This could have contributed to the shooting numbers some. Has some "lackadaisical-ness" to his game. Would jump in the air and then find shooters on the 3PT line; was indecisive on two shots in particular (the "mini-hook" and 1 of the 3PTA) that resulted in bad air balls. Needs to tighten up.

Other notes:
- Always funny to me to see the hair cuts in the summer league. Last time I've seen an athlete's head was in the NBA Playoffs when even the fans looked like they got a trim within the last week in case they'll be on TV. In the summer league, the players look like they just got out of bed.
- Coach Bud sat courtside with P Millsap and D Carroll to one side but when the camera caught them, Coach Bud was talking to some chicks on the other side. Yes, they were definitely lookers - at least 7s. We really didn't get a good look so the potential was there for more especially the one with glasses.
- Does anyone else see a bit of Andre the Giant in Darvin Ham? Part of it is that he's sitting in the midst of about ten guys (coaches I think) who look like they are barely out of HS (well, at least when they sit next to Ham), but the extra wide mouth is what gets me I think.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I understand SL is mostly like a pickup game, but Payne still doesn't look to be no more than a 3rd big. His intangibles just don't stick out imo.

The thing with Payne is that he seems one dimensional. He's only a shooter with great physical tools. Looking at his game film, he doesn't look comfortable operating with the ball in his hands. He doesn't react well enough when the defense rotates towards him. In college, he could find weaker or smaller guys to pick on in the post or off the dribble because he was more physically mature. In the pros, it's going to be completely different(which everybody knows of course).

Payne isn't even a good defender despite having great physical tools to work with. Everybody see's that he has below average-average IQ, and he compounds the problem with how his awareness can be somewhere else it seems. I could be overstating some things, but Payne does not look like an immediate impact like his age and college numbers as a SR would have you think.

[PandaKidd]

I can totally see that , but I think you have to give someone 20-30 games to get into a groove. And most likely, hes our big off the bench maybe even 3rd option.

[theatlfan]

I can totally see that , but I think you have to give someone 20-30 games to get into a groove. And most likely, hes our big off the bench maybe even 3rd option.

If the SL is any indication (and it isn't really), then I suspect you'll be disappointed with what you're expecting out of Payne this year. Muscala looked obviously more skilled as well as a much better fit with the O than Payne in the games I've seen. Payne has usable skills and can definitely contribute as an energy big, but if you're expecting him to beat out Antic (or Brand if resigned) for regular minutes, then I don't see that. Probably more like a 5-10 minute guy out of the box who can grow into a competent starter down the line.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I can totally see that , but I think you have to give someone 20-30 games to get into a groove. And most likely, hes our big off the bench maybe even 3rd option.

I'm fine with that, but the 15th pick for a big off the bench isn't really screaming value, when others could have been had.

[PandaKidd]

I can totally see that , but I think you have to give someone 20-30 games to get into a groove. And most likely, hes our big off the bench maybe even 3rd option.

If the SL is any indication (and it isn't really), then I suspect you'll be disappointed with what you're expecting out of Payne this year. Muscala looked obviously more skilled as well as a much better fit with the O than Payne in the games I've seen. Payne has usable skills and can definitely contribute as an energy big, but if you're expecting him to beat out Antic (or Brand if resigned) for regular minutes, then I don't see that. Probably more like a 5-10 minute guy out of the box who can grow into a competent starter down the line.

So this years DS? I kind of figured that.

I can totally see that , but I think you have to give someone 20-30 games to get into a groove. And most likely, hes our big off the bench maybe even 3rd option.

I'm fine with that, but the 15th pick for a big off the bench isn't really screaming value, when others could have been had.

We should be keeping an eye on:
James young
Rodney Hood
Kyle Anderson
Cleanthony Early

If any of those guys have good years and Payne doesnt....................

[atlantabbq99]

^ Young, Hood, Anderson, and Early have had horrible summer leagues so far.

[PandaKidd]

^ Young, Hood, Anderson, and Early have had horrible summer leagues so far.

Im talking reg season.

If one of those wins rookie of the year (highly unlikely) then we will really not be pleased

[Geaux_Hawks]

Well Young is one of the guys i wanted, but Hood & Anderson could have easily been my pick. Early not so much in to him. Anderson isn't going to shine for the Spurs this year(I don't think anyway). Pop's got his core guys he is going to play. Kyle will probably do a lot of "Clipboard Holding".

Young and Hood have a chance to do some things if they can work their way into the starting lineups or even the roation off the bench. Maybe not ROY, but a solid showing of potential to come, similar to Giannis, would make me question Ferry over picking Payne.

[atlantabbq99]

Bebe has also looked bad in summer league so far, 6ppg, 5rpg, 0blocks

[theatlfan]

So this years DS? I kind of figured that.

Not sure if Payne has the upside that Schröder has, but he has a much higher floor. I like Dennis and think he could be a legit NBA starter, but I also think he could be back in a European League in 3 years too. Payne has enough athleticism to be a good 4th big who you bring in to run the floor and add energy to the squad so he has a role in the NBA, we're just hoping it'll be more.

We should be keeping an eye on:
James young
Rodney Hood
Kyle Anderson
Cleanthony Early

If any of those guys have good years and Payne doesnt....................

Honestly, the only two guys are Young and Gary Harris - eh, maybe you could kick in Nurkic and Ennis too. The rest of the guys were fan favorite and not necessarily the guys that the draft pundits had as guys that could legitimately go in the top 15. You can't expect someone to be able to find the treasure that all his piers and neutral 3rd parties don't see with every pick. OTOH, you can expect him to be "right" with the guys he's passing over to go treasure hunting.

[PandaKidd]

Well my point of vies is we clearly needed a wing scorer. We needed a SF. We had the opportunity to address that and we chose Payne, WHO I LIKE. But I will not be happy if Payne ends up being a T-Rob and one of those other guys shines.

Just my opinion

[Joel Embust]

Moose is an awesome pick and pop target and his footwork in the post is pretty good.

Schröder with 13 points already, hitting two treys, a midrange shot off a pick, a layup and three of four FT's.

Pick and pop game with Muscala is working.

[azuresou1]

Mike Muscala looks REALLY polished. Legitimate first scoring big off the bench polished. He hit a driving spin midrange shot, and then just swished a 3. His defensive positioning is also really good. If he can keep this up, I think we have a gem.

Casey Prather looks excellent on defense, but his offense looks lacking. Won't make the team due to slots but could be a guy to keep an eye on if injuries force us to add some guys during the season.

[azuresou1]

Dennis needs to stop making lazy passes at the top of the key.

[Joel Embust]

Mike Muscala looks REALLY polished. Legitimate first scoring big off the bench polished. He hit a driving spin midrange shot, and then just swished a 3. His defensive positioning is also really good. If he can keep this up, I think we have a gem.

Casey Prather looks excellent on defense, but his offense looks lacking. Won't make the team due to slots but could be a guy to keep an eye on if injuries force us to add some guys during the season.

And to think Muscala's half a year younger than Payne.

People are sleeping on the MOOSE.

[azuresou1]

Payne with the would-be putback... timing off just a hair.

[azuresou1]

McAdoo with the FT choke.

Relleford almost gave the ball away... somehow... on the inbound but gets it back. 2/2 from the line to secure the win.

We're on to the next round of the summer league tournament!

[Jamaaliver]

For posterity:

Here is a vid of Bebe showing off some of that defensive prowess.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMUXMetGq_o&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

He is still years away from contributing, but he definitely maintains his potential as a defensive force in the future. 5-6 years from now he could be a game changer for whatever team he plays for. and since they already have Jonas Valanciunas at the 5 spot, there is no rush to lean on Bebe before he is physically ready.

This was a really good acquisition for TOR.

Maybe Tavares can develop into that defensive anchor our team has lacked since Mount Mutombo patrolled the lane in Atlanta 15 years ago.