The Trae Young Dilemma

[Jamaaliver]

The kid is struggling right now. With everything from shooting, passing, ballhandling, decision making.

What comes next?

Watch on YouTube

[Jamaaliver]

Watch on YouTube

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[jayu70]

The kid is struggling right now. With everything from shooting, passing, ballhandling, decision making.

What comes next?

Watch on YouTube

Trae is being subbed out in the middle of 1st quarters since Quin. Trae sits at the end of the bench during games, always. Last 6 game sub patterns:
Dallas- 7:06
Wizard - 6:33
Sixers 5:45
Miami - 5:40
Boston - 4:14
Boston - 6:45

Yes, he's struggling. He's been asking to change/modify the way he's played, less 3s (took 150 less this year, the Nate effect i think) , off ball, playing next to DJ, improve on defense which he has, etc. - hopefully it's growing pains. Development doesn't always happen in a straight line up, there are sometimes peaks and valleys.

What's next - continued development under Quin.

[Jamaaliver]

Where’s the Trae Young from 2 years ago?

He hasn’t been seen in the playoffs since

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About Young: He hasn’t been good. This follows the playoff series against the Heat last season, when he also wasn’t good.

It has been a dramatic and ugly drop since the franchise’s centerpiece helped the Hawks engineer playoff upsets of the Knicks and Sixers two years ago and stretch the eventual champion Bucks to six games in the Eastern Conference finals.

Young is not oblivious to this, and he somewhat owns it.

“I can be better,” he said. “I didn’t shoot the ball very well. I had some turnovers when I was driving and (the ball) left my hands. But I’m going to be better at home.”

Young’s 24 points Tuesday came on 9-of-22 shooting, including 2-of-8 on 3-pointers. In the first two games of this series, he’s shooting 35 percent from the field and 23 percent from outside the arc. The Hawks have been outscored by 32 points in his minutes on the floor. Even worse, consider his averages in seven playoff games against Boston and Miami since 2022: 16.7 points, 33 percent shooting (36-of-109), 19.6 percent on 3s (10-of-51) and a pedestrian assist-to-turnover differential of 46-41.

Here’s the problem: He’s being paid to own these moments. Not every postseason run can replicate 2021, with glorious punctuations like a center-court bow in Madison Square Garden. But two years later, he looks distinctly off-Broadway.

“The ball hasn’t gone in for him the way that it can and will,” Hawks coach Quin Snyder said. “He’s no different than anyone else on the team, as far as finding a rhythm. Trae will be the first one on the plane watching the tape and trying to figure out ways he can play better.”

It starts with not repeating three-minute sequences like this late in the first quarter: turnover out of bounds, missed 3-pointer, turnover on a bad pass, 10-footer blocked, turnover lost ball, 11-footer blocked.

Three minutes. Three turnovers. Three misses.

The Hawks went from up seven (22-15) to down three (25-28) in that stretch, a 10-point swing, and never recovered.

The question is whether Young can ascend to somewhere close to the player he was before. Because if he doesn’t, that will give Snyder and the front office one more thing to think about in the offseason.

The Athletic

[76ciology]

He is struggling because his drives relies a lot from refs blowing their whistle, so now the defenders can slow him down from physicality which allows the defense to recover and challenge the shot. D-White length and athleticism also plays a big part.

The problem with Trae is he’s not that good of a shooter, if we’re being honest. And if he is, a guy he should watch is JJ Redick with the off ball movement, as a screener then popping and DHO, which would also take advantage of playing with Dejounte.

I also dont know how Trae will look with a big popping to the 3pt arc, the slight switch and with better spacing might allow him to be a better finisher. Another one is maybe as a screener for Dejounte where Dejounte can use his speed in attacking to the rim while the defender has to respect Trae from popping. Sixers use to do it for Ben where JJ would screen for Ben then popping for the 3pt arc while the defender switching allows Dejounte a slight advantage for the drive to the rim.

Watch on YouTube

Here’s the thing, in the playoffs they allow physicality for defense. Why not use it to your advantage and take advantage of how the league allows more physical and more effective screens?

[HMFFL]

The kid is struggling right now. With everything from shooting, passing, ballhandling, decision making.

What comes next?

Watch on YouTube

Trae is being subbed out in the middle of 1st quarters since Quin. Trae sits at the end of the bench during games, always. Last 6 game sub patterns:
Dallas- 7:06
Wizard - 6:33
Sixers 5:45
Miami - 5:40
Boston - 4:14
Boston - 6:45

Yes, he's struggling. He's been asking to change/modify the way he's played, less 3s (took 150 less this year, the Nate effect i think) , off ball, playing next to DJ, etc. - hopefully it's growing pains. Development doesn't always happen in a straight line up, there are sometimes peaks and valleys.

What's next - continued development under Quin.

Well said. We can only help he improves his % next season and protects the ball better. Trae (24yrs old) is a 2x all-star while even Steph Curry didn't become one until he was 25 years old. I look forward to his development.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[jayu70]

He is struggling because his drives relies a lot from refs blowing their whistle, so now the defenders can slow him down from physicality which allows the defense to recover and challenge the shot. D-White length and athleticism also plays a big part.

The problem with Trae is he’s not that good of a shooter, if we’re being honest. And if he is, a guy he should watch is JJ Redick with the off ball movement, as a screener then popping and DHO, which would also take advantage of playing with Dejounte.

I also dont know how Trae will look with a big popping to the 3pt arc, the slight switch and with better spacing might allow him to be a better finisher. Another one is maybe as a screener for Dejounte where Dejounte can use his speed in attacking to the rim while the defender has to respect Trae from popping. Sixers use to do it for Ben where JJ would screen for Ben then popping for the 3pt arc while the defender switching allows Dejounte a slight advantage for the drive to the

Here’s the thing, in the playoffs they allow physicality for defense. Why not use it to your advantage and take advantage of how the league allows more physical and more effective screens?

I've said before - you have to move Trae off-ball with PURPOSE and INTENTION - not just move to move. Design an actual offense that does that.
McMillan's offense was designed to try and create a mismatch and attack it which leads to one on one play. Nate's offense was about the midrange at the start of the season he said he didn't care what analytics said about 3pt shooting and I think it trickled down to the team. Since Quin has taken over, Trae said the team is getting used to just letting the 3 fly as opposed to waiting for the closeout then attacking. A very antiquated system by Nate.

I'm hoping with Quin we see improvement in the offensive philosophy.

Also Trae played with Alex Len and Dewayne Dedmon as stretch 5's and it was successful.
 
From a December Article:
[b]It's hard to even say McMillan has instituted any kind of offensive system. Any shot the Hawks get is a result of individual creation, almost entirely by either Young or Murray.[/b] The Hawks make the fewest passes per game in the league by a wide margin, and their off-ball movement is virtually nonexistent. [b]Young still hasn't committed to that aspect of his game, and that's on him, but to be fair McMillan hasn't implemented the kind of impromptu screening and cutting culture required to make the movement of a player like Young consistently worthwhile. It takes everyone working together and in anticipation to free up a shooter, not just one guy running around.[/b]
To be fair, the Hawks finished with the No. 2 offense last season playing largely the same way, ..........but the your-turn-my-turn creation philosophy with Young and Murray feels positively pick-upish. There needs to be a system that can create shots for the shot creators. 

McMillan has not proven he's the guy to institute that kind of thing, either because he doesn't believe in such an offense, lacks the creativity to put it in play, or can't get the players, specifically Young, who's used to controlling everything with the ball in his hands, to buy into such a change

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trae-young-gives-hawks-a-punchers-chance-now-but-their-real-window-should-open-in-a-few-years/amp/

[Jamaaliver]

The problem with Trae is he’s not that good of a shooter, if we’re being honest.

Eh, he's a streaky shooter.

With poor shot selection.

Who struggles against length.

So yeah, pretty much. But it can be cleaned up with improved decision making. He had massive NBA success very soon (All Star in Season 2) and that stunted his development. And now that NBA defenses have the recipe to defend him, it's on him to adjust.

He needs to watch video of how Steph, Lillard, Nash, Iverson all adjusted to tight defenses over their respective careers. Cause off balance, fade away, contested three pointers won't get it done.

[dms269]

At the end of the day, Trae will only improve if he is willing to listen to advice from others. I think Quinn and Korver can work wonders, but Trae has to be receptive.

[Geaux_Hawks]

He is struggling because his drives relies a lot from refs blowing their whistle, so now the defenders can slow him down from physicality which allows the defense to recover and challenge the shot. D-White length and athleticism also plays a big part.

The problem with Trae is he’s not that good of a shooter, if we’re being honest. And if he is, a guy he should watch is JJ Redick with the off ball movement, as a screener then popping and DHO, which would also take advantage of playing with Dejounte.

I also dont know how Trae will look with a big popping to the 3pt arc, the slight switch and with better spacing might allow him to be a better finisher. Another one is maybe as a screener for Dejounte where Dejounte can use his speed in attacking to the rim while the defender has to respect Trae from popping. Sixers use to do it for Ben where JJ would screen for Ben then popping for the 3pt arc while the defender switching allows Dejounte a slight advantage for the drive to the rim.

Watch on YouTube

Here’s the thing, in the playoffs they allow physicality for defense. Why not use it to your advantage and take advantage of how the league allows more physical and more effective screens?

We've lacked a system of any sort on offense, and that's the main driving force behind it all. The screening and creativity has never been here since Pierce left. Mcmillan just ran a pick-up game style offense and although Trae can thrive at times when he's hot, a system in general would drastically improve his efficiency.

Sure he does struggle with length at times and he tries to make defenders respect his range by shooting logo 3's because of that, but he needs to stop trying to hunt for whistles and just get into the lane. Attacking and getting to his floater range will start to open the floor up the way Quinn wants it, and allow for more ball movement.

His drives don't rely on the refs whistle. He will hunt for it, and that's what he needs to stop doing less of. In the past he got away with it because the refs were giving it to him, but he's always had the ability to get past his man without the refs input. Since Quinn has arrived, i've noticed Trae arguing less with the refs and he's hunting less to boot. Quinn will eventually get that nasty habit out of him.

McMillan was never the right coach for Trae to begin with(or anybody really). The team in general is in the midst of learning an actual system and what's required. This is evident when you see Quinn next to Trae discussing things during his time on the bench, and it's exactly what he needs. We might not do much else in these playoffs, but i'm personally okay with that due to the fact that this off-season will be a reshaping of not only the culture and style of play, but the roster as well.

[76ciology]

He is struggling because his drives relies a lot from refs blowing their whistle, so now the defenders can slow him down from physicality which allows the defense to recover and challenge the shot. D-White length and athleticism also plays a big part.

The problem with Trae is he’s not that good of a shooter, if we’re being honest. And if he is, a guy he should watch is JJ Redick with the off ball movement, as a screener then popping and DHO, which would also take advantage of playing with Dejounte.

I also dont know how Trae will look with a big popping to the 3pt arc, the slight switch and with better spacing might allow him to be a better finisher. Another one is maybe as a screener for Dejounte where Dejounte can use his speed in attacking to the rim while the defender has to respect Trae from popping. Sixers use to do it for Ben where JJ would screen for Ben then popping for the 3pt arc while the defender switching allows Dejounte a slight advantage for the drive to the rim.

Watch on YouTube

Here’s the thing, in the playoffs they allow physicality for defense. Why not use it to your advantage and take advantage of how the league allows more physical and more effective screens?

We've lacked a system of any sort on offense, and that's the main driving force behind it all. The screening and creativity has never been here since Pierce left. Mcmillan just ran a pick-up game style offense and although Trae can thrive at times when he's hot, a system in general would drastically improve his efficiency.

Sure he does struggle with length at times and he tries to make defenders respect his range by shooting logo 3's because of that, but he needs to stop trying to hunt for whistles and just get into the lane. Attacking and getting to his floater range will start to open the floor up the way Quinn wants it, and allow for more ball movement.

His drives don't rely on the refs whistle. He will hunt for it, and that's what he needs to stop doing less of. In the past he got away with it because the refs were giving it to him, but he's always had the ability to get past his man without the refs input. Since Quinn has arrived, i've noticed Trae arguing less with the refs and he's hunting less to boot. Quinn will eventually get that nasty habit out of him.

McMillan was never the right coach for Trae to begin with(or anybody really). The team in general is in the midst of learning an actual system and what's required. This is evident when you see Quinn next to Trae discussing things during his time on the bench, and it's exactly what he needs. We might not do much else in these playoffs, but i'm personally okay with that due to the fact that this off-season will be a reshaping of not only the culture and style of play, but the roster as well.

On the ball, I think he should hunt 5s on defense.

If the 5 switches, he can hunt the big out and use his speed to get to the lane. And if the big is capable, Hawks can run screen plays on the weakside that might open up cutters to the paint (with the rim protector on Trae)

And if the 5 plays drop on defense, he should just take those mid range or floaters all day.

For the Celts series, I think Quin has figured out how to beat the Celts or atleast give them a hard time. Its a similar formula Sixers does. Which is hunt Al Horford and Grant Williams they give up 1.00++ ppp on ISO.

Then defensively, the rim protector should not stick too much on Al Horford like they are Steph Curry. Every drives to the rim there should be a rim protector (Capela? Collins? Johnson?) sending help. Hawks can also shade the ball handler and force them to kick it out.

[Geaux_Hawks]

On the ball, I think he should hunt 5s on defense.

If the 5 switches, he can hunt the big out and use his speed to get to the lane. And if the big is capable, Hawks can run screen plays on the weakside that might open up cutters to the paint (with the rim protector on Trae)

And if the 5 plays drop on defense, he should just take those mid range or floaters all day.

For the Celts series, I think Quin has figured out how to beat the Celts or atleast give them a hard time. Its a similar formula Sixers does. Which is hunt Al Horford and Grant Williams they give up 1.00++ ppp on ISO.

Then defensively, the rim protector should not stick too much on Al Horford like they are Steph Curry. Every drives to the rim there should be a rim protector (Capela? Collins? Johnson?) sending help. Hawks can also shade the ball handler and force them to kick it out.

Eventually, I think we'll see more of that. I don't think we have the right talent or overall understanding yet of how to make that work, particularly with cutting. Could be a way to get Murray going more. Maybe provides a way to utilize Bey more as well.

When it comes to the C's, I think we lack the raw firepower that they have. We're more streaky and inconsistent from 3, and although taking advantage of Horford or Grant Williams might be ideal, the C's will just shoot outscore us from 3. The bench came up huge for us, and could possibly do it again, but I think our limitations with Collins and Hunter will be a hindrance unless Murray and/or Trae are foring on all cylinders. I did like seeing less Collins and more Bey late in the game. Seemed to be what we needed on offense anyway.

[jayu70]

Love listening to players talk game nuance.

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[jayu70]

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[Jamaaliver]

Perfect encapsulation of Trae's highs and lows:

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[jayu70]

^

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[HMFFL]

Trae Young: "this city's going to win a championship" with Quin Snyder

Trae Young has bought into his new head coach and he made that clear with some bold comments following the Hawks' exit from the playoffs on Thursday.

https://www.audacy.com/929thegame/sports/atlanta-hawks/trae-this-citys-going-to-win-a-championship-with-snyder


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[Jamaaliver]

Trae Young believes Quin Snyder will lead Hawks to a championship, but is the feeling mutual?

Atlanta trading Young is not off the table, even as Young has glowed about his new coach

In the aftermath of the Hawks' elimination at the hands of the Celtics, attention has turned to the future in Atlanta. Who does Snyder want to move forward with? The biggest name in question is Trae Young, who, as has been pretty well chronicled, clashed with former coach Nate McMillan.

Most teams are set at point guard, and the ones that aren't would likely have trouble putting together the kind of package that would represent an immediate upgrade for the Hawks, who aren't going to get in the business of a rebuild. Urgency is high with this ownership group. Quin came to win.

Chances are, Young is staying put. And for his part, he couldn't sound more excited to continue working with Snyder, whom Young tabbed as "the future" of Hawks basketball in his postgame press conference Thursday night.

"I believe with [Snyder] here, this city's going to win a championship," Young said.

He brings something special to our team. I really enjoy playing for him."

But is the feeling mutual? Is Young the kind of star to which Snyder feels comfortable pinning his Atlanta fate? Snyder likely wouldn't have taken the job if he wasn't prepared to move forward with Young; again, trading him is probably a long shot. When he gets it going, he can take over any game and/or playoff series. Talent like that is tantalizing, but it can also be deceiving. You see the offensive outbursts and think this guy must be helping us win, but that hasn't consistently proven to be the case. Young remains a crippling defensive liability, and he's never had any interest in off-ball movement, which would open up Atlanta's offense in significant ways.

"Our backcourt is fun to coach," Snyder said of Young and Murray following the Game 6 loss. "They've both been really committed to what we're doing."

Under Synder, the Hawks played faster and the offense figures to prioritize more motion moving into next season. Young is saying the right things now about following Snyder's lead. But he has to put those words into action. He has to be willing to get a little uncomfortable.

Perhaps some more off-ball work will be on Young's summer to-do list. Conditioning, so he can stay in more constant motion. Catching and shooting on the move, rather than just spot-ups as a floor spacer, which is what he mostly defaults to when he isn't initiating at this point in his career.

"There's a lot of things I can get better at," Young said with the giddy smile of a guy who can't wait to get to work. "I don't want to get into too much specifics with what we're going to work on, but I'm just excited for this summer."

...in the end, this comes [down] to Young. Right now, he's the franchise. But winning with a small defensive target/ball-dominant point guard as your best player in the playoffs is extremely challenging. We know Trae thinks he can win with Snyder. But again, is the feeling mutual? We may find out this summer.

CBS Sports

[tbhawksfan1]

Instead of starting a new thread I'll just throw this in here...

Who do you think will move this summer? QS is going to mold this team and there seem to be moves needed...J...cough C for example. Will he be moved? Anyone else?

[jayu70]

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