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2024 NBA Draft Thread

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#221 » by jayu70 » Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:27 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:Who would you like the Hawks to draft with both their picks?


That's a great question...

It comes down to what path we're taking moving forward. If Trae's gonna be here, we're looking to compete as soon as next year and we need to look at immediate contributors at positions of need:


This is a weak draft in the top-5, but a solid one for big men and in the 12-25 range in general. Having multiple picks in that range could be useful for grabbing cheap, depth pieces and then hoping for internal growth from Kobe, Mo Gueye, Jalen, Okongwu (and AJ?).

Agreed. We need someone who can contribute immediately at several positions, we desperately need some size. We have several spots to fill:
With Bey out
Hunter playing from the bench
Clint's time as a starter (Hawk) over
Whatever the plan is with DJM - keep or not.
I like the stable of young guys but they have got to stay healthy and PLAY: JJ,OO, Kobe, MoG, AJ and Lundy (we have gotta have a productive 2nd rounder able to contribute, Moose and MScott were our last two such 2nd rounders).
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#222 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:30 pm

jayu70 wrote: MoG, AJ and Lundy (we have gotta have a productive 2nd rounder able to contribute, Moose and MScott were our last two such 2nd rounders).




We have really dropped the ball on developing 2nd round picks.

I do have high hopes for Seth Lundy and Mo Gueye.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#223 » by jayu70 » Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:50 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:Who would you like the Hawks to draft with both their picks?



But, Jayu...if Trae's is leaving this summer. :nonono:

We might as well swing for the fences, cause it's a rebuild.

Names to consider:

If Trae is leaving this offseason, we should be tanking now for the best possible pick in 2024, not playing Murray 43 minutes in a game vs a struggling PTL team.

If Trae is leaving this offseason, I do agree we should blow it up. I have no interest in handing over the reigns to Murray as the starting PG (and I'm one of his biggest fans, wanted him when SAS had both him and White on the block years ago). His PG skills need a lot of work, yes he plays better at PG than SG....but he has soooo many flaws: high loose dribble, he doesn't lead guys to spots, can't run the offense to scheme them open, can't throw a lob to save his life, not very intuitive to see plays developing and make timely passes, he can make the easy passes, his PnR passes are mostly pocket passes that tend to be low and our bigs hands aren't the best. (again I'm a fan of his but don't want him as the lead guy for the Hawks).
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#224 » by jayu70 » Fri Mar 15, 2024 5:52 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote: MoG, AJ and Lundy (we have gotta have a productive 2nd rounder able to contribute, Moose and MScott were our last two such 2nd rounders).




We have really dropped the ball on developing 2nd round picks.

I do have high hopes for Seth Lundy and Mo Gueye.

Hoping Lundy can be Danny Green-esque.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#225 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:24 am

Upperclassman to consider late in the 1st round.

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#226 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:27 am

Possibly my two favorite prospects from this draft...

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#227 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:47 pm

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#228 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:49 pm

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#229 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:00 am

The order is less important at this point than the names and profiles:

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#230 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:57 pm

Thoughts on either of these kids as Trae's replacement?

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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#231 » by King Ken » Sun Mar 17, 2024 9:14 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:Thoughts on either of these kids as Trae's replacement?

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While this is definitely the draft to draft a PG considering it's quality depth, I don't believe this is the year we look for Trae's replacement. I don't believe we do that till we have to replace Trae as he left in FA. The goal should be to draft players that keep Trae in Atlanta for the next 8-10 years.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#232 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Mar 17, 2024 10:38 pm

King Ken wrote:While this is definitely the draft to draft a PG considering it's quality depth, I don't believe this is the year we look for Trae's replacement. I don't believe we do that till we have to replace Trae as he left in FA. The goal should be to draft players that keep Trae in Atlanta for the next 8-10 years.


Letting Trae walk in Free Agency vs trading him for assets?!?

I'm all for keeping him, but if he indicates he wants to leave or refuses to sign an extension (when that time comes),the franchise will have hard decisions to make....
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#233 » by King Ken » Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:00 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
King Ken wrote:While this is definitely the draft to draft a PG considering it's quality depth, I don't believe this is the year we look for Trae's replacement. I don't believe we do that till we have to replace Trae as he left in FA. The goal should be to draft players that keep Trae in Atlanta for the next 8-10 years.


Letting Trae walk in Free Agency vs trading him for assets?!?

I'm all for keeping him, but if he indicates he wants to leave or refuses to sign an extension (when that time comes),the franchise will have hard decisions to make....

If you got a franchise player, my belief is you draft players that fit around him.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#234 » by Jamaaliver » Sun Mar 17, 2024 11:31 pm

King Ken wrote:If you got a franchise player, my belief is you draft players that fit around him.



I agree with this philosophy in general.

But I also think this is partly why we're in this predicament.

We drafted limited players who paired well with Trae, but held little top flight potential or trade value.

Now that it's time to upgrade the roster, we no longer have the ammunition to acquire a true 2nd superstar.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#235 » by King Ken » Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:43 am

Jamaaliver wrote:
King Ken wrote:If you got a franchise player, my belief is you draft players that fit around him.



I agree with this philosophy in general.

But I also think this is partly why we're in this predicament.

We drafted limited players who paired well with Trae, but held little top flight potential or trade value.

Now that it's time to upgrade the roster, we no longer have the ammunition to acquire a true 2nd superstar.

That wasn't a bad idea, we just missed on the players and we didn't understand Trae yet. We thought we did but we didn't. Myself included. I thought this was a no-brainer. I also thought Trae would develop into an elite floor general. He's still a bad floor general. I didn't realize he was extremely big man-centric at this stage. I think we ended the tank too soon. I've said it a 1000 times.MJ Bulls didn't figure it out till year 3 of MJ on what type of players they need to put around him.

I don't think we knew what Trae was after year 1.

At that time, it seemed we just needed big wings around Trae who are capable of shooting 3s. We had Kevin around but defensively, these two were a mess together. We did realize, we play best with a drop defensive 5 as Dedmon was miles better for us than Len or the others.

Now, we know Trae's game. The perimeter players generally aren't in rhythm with him and Murray excel because they just take turns but we all know that doesn't really help Trae's game offensively. I stated even before the time of the trade, I didn't like the fit and felt they were too small to be paired with each other.

Ideally, the best SG for Trae is prime Danny Green. He has a short movement game like Kevin and Bey. He can defend 1-3. Doesn't mind going numerous possessions without touches or useless touches. Makes great decisions on the ball and doesn't get in Trae's way.

Ideally, the best SF for Trae is Mikal Bridges but he has higher trade value than even Trae so let's realistically say Herb Jones.
Low usage - Check
Can hit open 3s - Check
Plus defender - More than Check
Can defend multiple positions - Check
While he's not perfect, he doesn't get in Trae's way and he hits open 3s and he's not stationary. You can't be stationary to play with Trae but you can't be Klay where you need a lot of screens and you take along time. Trae isn't a floor general, he's a relentless offensive juggernaut is a mad genius with the rock.

Ideally, the best PF is AD but he's not available. Then I would say JJJ, but he's not available. Then I would say Jalen Johnson who worked his ass off to turn himself into someone who fits around Trae's game. He wasn't nothing like this as a prospect. If fact, he struggled to play without the rock but he's since greatly improved and works with Trae to figure out how to make life easier for him. Obviously, JJ is here so he's the one we got right and honestly, he was a boom or bust prospect. This could have easily went left and it went right for us. JJ deserves a lot of love for this.

Ideally, the best 5 is KAT but he's not available. Then I would say Gobert, but he's not available. If we were looking at a young player, Walker Kessler but he's not available. So we have to go to the draft and there is a player who you wouldn't believe is there. Trae's Draymond to his Stephfortness. Zach Edey. I've said this time and time again, the center is the most important OFFENSIVE player to Trae. He directly plays through the 5. No one gives us more upside than KAT as he can do all big man actions, but he can shoot, create his own basket, finish, rim run, roll, and PnP. He can do everything but his motor is questionable, health is really questionable, and he can't protect to rim at all. He's a good paint protector.

Next would be Rudy Gobert. I've been saying, while Rudy is not good enough offensively, him and Trae fit just enough for Trae to turn him into a 18ppg scorer and with his elite defense, he returns the favor and gives us a top 10 defense with Trae Young on the floor which is insane.

Next would be the next up-and-comer in Kessler. He is tracking to be better than Gobert at the same stage and he was averaging 16ppg per36 with Conley. Without Conley, he's been averaging a lot less and offensively, isn't a threat outside of the PnR, dunker spot, and put backs.

Then we have Zach Edey. I've posted scouting report, every bit of detail but he's the first truly elite movement big man with a big man skill-set who's a true 5 to enter the NBA. He's relentless like Trae. An FT merchant like Trae. Trae's Malone to Edey's Stockton. This is the player that could really change Trae's long-term offensive outlook more than any other player in this league. Defensively, he's not likely to get to prime Capela's level but he should get close. When you consider how much more offensively improved we will be, you will realize, he improves the defense significantly just by improving the offense significantly. We will see a massive cut down in transition points and PITP which will naturally improve Atlanta's defense to around the 7-13 range. Add that this will be the #1 offense in the NBA, we will see a massive improvement as an overall team. This is a league of margins. Sometimes, a small move can have a massive impact on margins.

Look at GS with M. Jackson. 51 wins. Curry broke out and became a top 15 player. What changed? Kerr was hired. They changed their offense and made Draymond the hub. Green's OBPM went from -1.7 to .7. This caused Klay to go up from .9 to 4.5 and Steph to go from 6.3 to an insane 8.2. They had a pretty good defensive squad already with Barnes, Iggy, Bogut, Justin Holiday the previous year, Livingston, and even David Lee was playing some defense under Marc in the 51-win year and was an All-Star the previous year.

I don't believe our defensive personnel is as good as that but it's not bad either. Playing with Trae defensively is hard for anyone but offensively, the reward especially for bigs is plentiful.

This is a game of margins. We got productive players. Murray has a WAR of 4.5. Bogi at 4.4, JJ at 3.6, and even Hunter who's more of a film guy to see him impact is a 1.4. So we got some things in place but man, Capela regression hurts and I think we realized OO will never be that defensive versatile piece we hoped when we drafted him at 6. At least for us he won't. Maybe another team where he not playing with Trae might be completely different.

I don't think we should stop doing anything.

I like some of our prospects like Bufkin and Gueye.

Obviously, we gotta hit on this year's draft.

We got JC TPE to add a vet who can really help us.

Of course, we got a possible Murray trade which could bring us better fits and a high to mid 1st draft pick in this class. I think we need at least 2-3 1st this year.

I also think we need to get one major FA that's a vet to add to our core. I would prefer a backup 4. I would love Kyle Anderson, he kinda fits like JJ but he's more half-court based as JJ is more open-court.

Of course, we need to resign Bey even if he has to sit out all of next year. Bey fit and next year might be Dre's last in Atlanta to save money in 2025-26 for JJ's new ext. Obviously, we gotta win next year so no saving money as we got no picks in 2024-25.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#236 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:55 am

Jamaaliver wrote:Thoughts on either of these kids as Trae's replacement?

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Trae's replacement...? You sticking yo neck out there Jamaal
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#237 » by tbhawksfan1 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:09 pm

King Ken wrote:
Jamaaliver wrote:
King Ken wrote:If you got a franchise player, my belief is you draft players that fit around him.



I agree with this philosophy in general.

But I also think this is partly why we're in this predicament.

We drafted limited players who paired well with Trae, but held little top flight potential or trade value.

Now that it's time to upgrade the roster, we no longer have the ammunition to acquire a true 2nd superstar.

That wasn't a bad idea, we just missed on the players and we didn't understand Trae yet. We thought we did but we didn't. Myself included. I thought this was a no-brainer. I also thought Trae would develop into an elite floor general. He's still a bad floor general. I didn't realize he was extremely big man-centric at this stage. I think we ended the tank too soon. I've said it a 1000 times.MJ Bulls didn't figure it out till year 3 of MJ on what type of players they need to put around him.

I don't think we knew what Trae was after year 1.

At that time, it seemed we just needed big wings around Trae who are capable of shooting 3s. We had Kevin around but defensively, these two were a mess together. We did realize, we play best with a drop defensive 5 as Dedmon was miles better for us than Len or the others.

Now, we know Trae's game. The perimeter players generally aren't in rhythm with him and Murray excel because they just take turns but we all know that doesn't really help Trae's game offensively. I stated even before the time of the trade, I didn't like the fit and felt they were too small to be paired with each other.

Ideally, the best SG for Trae is prime Danny Green. He has a short movement game like Kevin and Bey. He can defend 1-3. Doesn't mind going numerous possessions without touches or useless touches. Makes great decisions on the ball and doesn't get in Trae's way.

Ideally, the best SF for Trae is Mikal Bridges but he has higher trade value than even Trae so let's realistically say Herb Jones.
Low usage - Check
Can hit open 3s - Check
Plus defender - More than Check
Can defend multiple positions - Check
While he's not perfect, he doesn't get in Trae's way and he hits open 3s and he's not stationary. You can't be stationary to play with Trae but you can't be Klay where you need a lot of screens and you take along time. Trae isn't a floor general, he's a relentless offensive juggernaut is a mad genius with the rock.

Ideally, the best PF is AD but he's not available. Then I would say JJJ, but he's not available. Then I would say Jalen Johnson who worked his ass off to turn himself into someone who fits around Trae's game. He wasn't nothing like this as a prospect. If fact, he struggled to play without the rock but he's since greatly improved and works with Trae to figure out how to make life easier for him. Obviously, JJ is here so he's the one we got right and honestly, he was a boom or bust prospect. This could have easily went left and it went right for us. JJ deserves a lot of love for this.

Ideally, the best 5 is KAT but he's not available. Then I would say Gobert, but he's not available. If we were looking at a young player, Walker Kessler but he's not available. So we have to go to the draft and there is a player who you wouldn't believe is there. Trae's Draymond to his Stephfortness. Zach Edey. I've said this time and time again, the center is the most important OFFENSIVE player to Trae. He directly plays through the 5. No one gives us more upside than KAT as he can do all big man actions, but he can shoot, create his own basket, finish, rim run, roll, and PnP. He can do everything but his motor is questionable, health is really questionable, and he can't protect to rim at all. He's a good paint protector.

Next would be Rudy Gobert. I've been saying, while Rudy is not good enough offensively, him and Trae fit just enough for Trae to turn him into a 18ppg scorer and with his elite defense, he returns the favor and gives us a top 10 defense with Trae Young on the floor which is insane.

Next would be the next up-and-comer in Kessler. He is tracking to be better than Gobert at the same stage and he was averaging 16ppg per36 with Conley. Without Conley, he's been averaging a lot less and offensively, isn't a threat outside of the PnR, dunker spot, and put backs.

Then we have Zach Edey. I've posted scouting report, every bit of detail but he's the first truly elite movement big man with a big man skill-set who's a true 5 to enter the NBA. He's relentless like Trae. An FT merchant like Trae. Trae's Malone to Edey's Stockton. This is the player that could really change Trae's long-term offensive outlook more than any other player in this league. Defensively, he's not likely to get to prime Capela's level but he should get close. When you consider how much more offensively improved we will be, you will realize, he improves the defense significantly just by improving the offense significantly. We will see a massive cut down in transition points and PITP which will naturally improve Atlanta's defense to around the 7-13 range. Add that this will be the #1 offense in the NBA, we will see a massive improvement as an overall team. This is a league of margins. Sometimes, a small move can have a massive impact on margins.

Look at GS with M. Jackson. 51 wins. Curry broke out and became a top 15 player. What changed? Kerr was hired. They changed their offense and made Draymond the hub. Green's OBPM went from -1.7 to .7. This caused Klay to go up from .9 to 4.5 and Steph to go from 6.3 to an insane 8.2. They had a pretty good defensive squad already with Barnes, Iggy, Bogut, Justin Holiday the previous year, Livingston, and even David Lee was playing some defense under Marc in the 51-win year and was an All-Star the previous year.

I don't believe our defensive personnel is as good as that but it's not bad either. Playing with Trae defensively is hard for anyone but offensively, the reward especially for bigs is plentiful.

This is a game of margins. We got productive players. Murray has a WAR of 4.5. Bogi at 4.4, JJ at 3.6, and even Hunter who's more of a film guy to see him impact is a 1.4. So we got some things in place but man, Capela regression hurts and I think we realized OO will never be that defensive versatile piece we hoped when we drafted him at 6. At least for us he won't. Maybe another team where he not playing with Trae might be completely different.

I don't think we should stop doing anything.

I like some of our prospects like Bufkin and Gueye.

Obviously, we gotta hit on this year's draft.

We got JC TPE to add a vet who can really help us.

Of course, we got a possible Murray trade which could bring us better fits and a high to mid 1st draft pick in this class. I think we need at least 2-3 1st this year.

I also think we need to get one major FA that's a vet to add to our core. I would prefer a backup 4. I would love Kyle Anderson, he kinda fits like JJ but he's more half-court based as JJ is more open-court.

Of course, we need to resign Bey even if he has to sit out all of next year. Bey fit and next year might be Dre's last in Atlanta to save money in 2025-26 for JJ's new ext. Obviously, we gotta win next year so no saving money as we got no picks in 2024-25.


I like everything that you said in this post...until I came to the last paragraph. Keeping Bey over Hunter is a NO GO

And1 for the rest though
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#238 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:12 pm

tbhawksfan1 wrote:Trae's replacement...? You sticking yo neck out there Jamaal



There's a distinct possibility that Trae Young asks for a trade this summer.
Spoiler:
This isn't exactly a ringing endorsement that he's committed to the franchise, long term:

Read on Twitter
With 2 full years left on his contract, that would be the best time to move him.

If it comes to it, there are other PG options worth considering.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#239 » by King Ken » Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:40 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
tbhawksfan1 wrote:Trae's replacement...? You sticking yo neck out there Jamaal



There's a distinct possibility that Trae Young asks for a trade this summer.
Spoiler:
This isn't exactly a ringing endorsement that he's committed to the franchise, long term:

Read on Twitter
With 2 full years left on his contract, that would be the best time to move him.

If it comes to it, there are other PG options worth considering.

I didn't think about it at the time because I've been avoiding doing post season work during season but if we trade Murray, backup PG becomes a bigger need than backup PF especially since the org believes in Gueye. Right now, our backup PG is Murray but after that is Forrest. No way is Forrest ready for being a 2nd PG on any team. So, trading Murray creates a new hole.
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Re: 2024 NBA Draft Thread 

Post#240 » by Jamaaliver » Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:31 pm

King Ken wrote:I didn't think about it at the time because I've been avoiding doing post season work during season but if we trade Murray, backup PG becomes a bigger need than backup PF especially since the org believes in Gueye. Right now, our backup PG is Murray but after that is Forrest. No way is Forrest ready for being a 2nd PG on any team. So, trading Murray creates a new hole.


Really good point. And it does put the Kobe Bufkin draft pick in a better light if they have suspected for a while that Trae/DeJounte wasn't a long term pairing.

Draftees to consider for backup PG minutes:

  1. Devin Carter - elite defender at the PG position. Davion Mitchell clone, Trent Forrest Forrest with a jumper, Alex Caruso without the bulk.
  2. Jared McCain - sweet shooting 3&D PG who lacks creativity but can make opposing defenses pay for sagging off him
  3. Tyler Kolek - unathletic, offensive engine, TJ McConnell clone

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