What if ATL signs and trades J Smoothe?

FCNATL85 · Post #1 » by **FCNATL85** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:11 am

What can we get for him in a package?

He has a load of talent. not quite sure he will be able to bring it to the next level...too much mental lapses and T lately. Will he ever be able to be a star a la Dominique?
if no, then let's move him before it is clear to everybody...

conleyorbust · Post #2 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:47 am

FCNATL85 wrote:What can we get for him in a package?

He has a load of talent. not quite sure he will be able to bring it to the next level...too much mental lapses and T lately. Will he ever be able to be a star a la Dominique?
if no, then let's move him before it is clear to everybody...

I am in the camp of people who are willing to trade literally anyone for the right offer. I just don't think we should be shopping 3 of our guys - Joe, Josh S, and Al.

Smith has played real well on offense lately (first time in his career with a point guard) and has shown that he can be a fairly high percentage "go with the flow" kind of scorer but can also take over and get to the line when the going gets tough.

He is also our best defender and one of the versatile defenders in the game.

He gets better every season and he seems to get better over the course of the season. That seems natural for a kid that came out of high school.

For those reasons I certainly wouldn't look to trade him.

However I would trade him if the right offer came along... I'd look for a veteran star coming off an injury, possibly looking for a change of scenery (or possibly being run out of town). A guy like Brand would be doable but the question there is: do you really want to trade a 22 year old with no injury concerns for a better, but not by much, 29 year old? Especially when it isn't really clear that Smith won't be better in a year and a half.

If the Rockets decide that they don't like the McGrady-Ming combo any more and want to get a little more athleticism in the starting lineup while not giving up any defensive pressure the miiiight trade Ming.... doubtful but not impossible. That is another one you'd really have to consider if you thought that Yao could stay healthy for a full season.

On the whole though you are either going to get a second tier star like JO or another upside type like Josh unless you get really aggressive like Ainge and take advantage of a star that might want to move - Arenas and Brand fit the bill but I don't know that I'd necessarilly do either one of those trades (but I'm not the biggest fan of Arenas' game).

Who were you thinking?

Retrovision · Post #3 » by **Retrovision** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:54 am

If you think about it, Josh is still raw talent. He is a stat sheet stuffer and a fantasy dream. If he was the number 1 option he would score 20-23 ppg (Seattle ex).

BMF Jet Jaguar · Post #4 » by **BMF Jet Jaguar** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:57 am

maybe chill and smoove for igoudala and thad young

conleyorbust · Post #5 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:02 am

Retrovision wrote:If you think about it, Josh is still raw talent. He is a stat sheet stuffer and a fantasy dream. If he was the number 1 option he would score 20-23 ppg (Seattle ex).

He proved that at the end of last season - although it might not have been the best thing for his mental development as a player.

Honestly, our offense has looked really good lately and we have tons of defensive potential. We just have inconsistent perimeter defenders in Chil and Marv and almost no resistance at the point plus a stunning lack of depth which leads to terrible defenders playing at the frontcourt spot (Zaza and PF version of Marv).

Post #6 » by **dms269** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:08 am

I wouldn't mind us trading him. Yes he is a great player, however if it would benefit the team then sure. I think if we want Al to move to the 4, then Smith needs ot be traded. He cannot play the 3 anymore. If he is traded, then I hope we could get a center in return. Who, I'm not sure.

td00 · Post #7 » by **td00** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:28 am

Josh and Al should be the future and the face of your franchise. You don't trade him because you won't get value in return.
My points:

- We finally have a veteran PG night-in, night-out (at least through next year)
- We have Al Horford, who complements Smoove very well. Get us a big man to roam the middle and you have a very good 3-some.
- He's only 22; he is still learning the game. 2 more years and you should see him getting consideration as an all-star on a regular basis.
- You don't teach his jumping/timing ability and you don't teach the defense he plays. He keeps us in games with his defense.
- He should be our 2nd-3rd option on offense going forward. We have the perimeter guys now and we just need to get help on the interior.

I say we run with this bull for as long as we can and make him the Dominique heir-apparent. He's too good to remove from our lineup. Nobody brings what Smoove does for this team.

Skyhawk1 · Post #8 » by **Skyhawk1** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:51 am

I'd consider trading him for a C. I love Biedrins game, so a package involving him for Smith would be a sweet deal. There's no way the Rockets even think about trading Yao. Brand can be on the block, but I doubt the Hawks would take that risk. Anyway, I think Smith has played a bit better lately. Of course he's got those crazy jump shots and TOs here and there, but I guess you got to take the bad to have the good with him.

High 5 · Post #9 » by **High 5** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:57 am

If Marvin wasn't such a disappointment I'd be more open to the idea, but then we would probably just trade him instead. With the right coach (someone who could get his head right) I think Smith would become a perennial All Star. It's hard to trade that.

evildallas · Post #10 » by **evildallas** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:11 am

According to what I read on a Chicago blog a S&T at the end of his rookie deal is subject to BYC rules concerning salary. This makes it very hard to work out an equatable deal both talent and just with respect to the cap. I'm not even sure how to work out the math right now, but the only big is likely on the move has too many questions involved (Nene).

Even if that weren't the case I'm not in favor of trading Josh Smith. He has shown the drive to get to the next level even if he doesn't always seem to have the head for it. I don't see a trade that adds as much as losing him will cost us on the court.

I still doubt Marvin. He hasn't rounded into form as a complete player like I hoped. He does have a sweet shot and some nights he boards well. I rarely come away happy with his D. It's hard to give up on him though because I hold our current coaching staff (not just Woodson, but the whole staff) in such low esteem that I worry than Marvin might explode with the right coaching influences (however I still doubt it). I still think there are a couple of teams out there that could still see the big upside of Marvin and give us a role player or 2 (to match contract) and a 1st rounder (mid-round) for him. I don't see any other moves that could benefit us as much long term.

parson · Post #11 » by **parson** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:33 am

Only for a good center. Anything else is a waste.

Harry10 · Post #12 » by **Harry10** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:32 am

...... lets put all of this in perspective..... Smith, Horford, Marvin, and Law are all 22yr, and Childress is 23yr.

perthwildcat · Post #13 » by **perthwildcat** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:07 am

Going off that list id shop Marvin before anyone else...

Maybe Chill too but it seems a lot nights Chill is the only one still competing... I dont know if id trade that...

tbhawksfan · Post #14 » by **tbhawksfan** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:30 am

We could go into next season with our current roster plus Andersen (BK said he was coming over) and maybe a MLE type FA.

We'd have a team with versitale swing players at every position. Smoove can play some SF and AL some PF.

Breakdown into position minutes:

PG:
Bibby 32 / Acie 16 / Speedy

SG:
JJ 32 / Chil 16 / Richardson

SF:
Marvin 30 / Chil 11 / Smoove 7

PF:
Smoove 28 / Horford 20 / Jones

C:
Horford 12 / Andersen 25 / Zaza 10

will · Post #15 » by **will** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:34 pm

Shouldn't even think about it unless a bona fide star is coming back ATLanta's way.

Smith and Al will and should be the faces of the franchise for the next decade. It would be absurd to trade away JSmoove.

For the first time in his NBA career, he is playing with a point guard who is actually good and Smoove is playing his best basketball yet. However, that may or may not be due to the fact he is in a contract year, but you cannot deny what this guy brings to the team game in and game out. Unless you can replace Smoove with a star impact player, it would be incredibly foolish to deal him away.

M301E814W404 · Post #16 » by **M301E814W404** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:09 pm

No chance Smoove/Horford/JJ go anywhere unless it involves a player coming back whose name is Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, or Amare Staudamire.

conleyorbust · Post #17 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:30 pm

M301E814W404 wrote:No chance Smoove/Horford/JJ go anywhere unless it involves a player coming back whose name is Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, or Amare Staudamire.

Well I wouldn't go that far, there are some other names I'd consider (and I'm as big of a Josh Smith fan as you can get). I just haven't seen an idea floated that looks close to fair value. The only name I've seen anyone throw out there is Biedrins who isn't as good as Smith is today, doesn't have the upside, and isn't nearly as marketable which matters more than people realize.

parson · Post #18 » by **parson** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:38 pm

Smoove has shown this year that he can get to the basket anytime he wants -- against any defense (although it felt as if he missed a million layups -- use the backboard!). That, in itself, indicates he can be a major star and a huge crunch-time scorer.

Unless we can trade him for the single greatest sore spot on our roster, we'd go backwards if we traded him.

Horford is too good of a center (against 90% of the NBA, anyway) to move him away, unless we upgraded the center spot.

Rip2137 · Post #19 » by **Rip2137** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:08 pm

There are all of 4 players better at the center position than Josh is a the PF position.

Ducan, Amare, Howard, Ming.

Thats the centers that you trade him for. Besides that you are making the team worse. Now there are guys at the 4 you might consider trading him for, but how does that change the Al at center issue that you all have?

conleyorbust · Post #20 » by **conleyorbust** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:24 pm

Rip2137 wrote:There are all of 4 players better at the center position than Josh is a the PF position.

Ducan, Amare, Howard, Ming.

Thats the centers that you trade him for. Besides that you are making the team worse. Now there are guys at the 4 you might consider trading him for, but how does that change the Al at center issue that you all have?

Josh and Al have been playing great together lately, thats the thing I don't understand about all this. Both are shooting pretty high percentages for their respective positions. Al will have an NBA offseason and put on some strength and become an even better post defender, as of now I think Al defends pure post players better than he defends perimeter PFs.

Trading Josh would mean that you think that the combo of Al + Center is better than the combo of Al plus Josh and I don't think the difference between Al at the C and Al at the PF is going to be enough to warrant that type of action.