Start Green at PF!

[Tenbomber]

We need to run games for Jeff all the time, he is a system guy right now, you can play him 45 minutes and Mede his shot 11 times, that's just absurd, PP, KG and Jordan can all create their shots, run plays for Green...

Hmmm, definitely not against this. Jeff Green is not capable of creating his own shots at the moment. IMO, he's our 2nd or 3rd option offensively right now depending on our opponent, and some plays should be ran through him.

But I remember something like this was asked from Doc before and he mentioned in an interview that it would be difficult to create something new and draw different offensive plays during the regular season. I take this as he'll use Green more during the playoffs.

I'm thinking that Doc will come around to starting Jeff in the playoffs....He's too good to sit on the bench and watch....He needs to play big minutes....

I also like what Jordan Crawford has brought to this team, reguardless how unconventional and how unorthodox that all may be....He's full of surprises!

Working him into the general scheme of things has added to the fun of watching these guys play without Rondo and Sully being around...

I have no idea how far we will go in the post season? But I kinda like that sort of a mystery....

I just hope we can recover from all the recent nagging injuries and peak at the right time.....

[Tenbomber]

Doc sucks man...so unimaginative!

Thats been said allot over the years... think I spent a whole season or two thinking that myself?

But just about the time you start believing this, he pulls a rabbit out of his hat....

Don't discount the Doc....

When it matters, he will draw up that crunchtime play and make the right substitutions....

[Marley2Hendrix]

We need to run games for Jeff all the time, he is a system guy right now, you can play him 45 minutes and Mede his shot 11 times, that's just absurd, PP, KG and Jordan can all create their shots, run plays for Green...

Hmmm, definitely not against this. Jeff Green is not capable of creating his own shots at the moment. IMO, he's our 2nd or 3rd option offensively right now depending on our opponent, and some plays should be ran through him.

But I remember something like this was asked from Doc before and he mentioned in an interview that it would be difficult to create something new and draw different offensive plays during the regular season. I take this as he'll use Green more during the playoffs.

I'm thinking that Doc will come around to starting Jeff in the playoffs....He's too good to sit on the bench and watch....He needs to play big minutes....

I also like what Jordan Crawford has brought to this team, reguardless how unconventional and how unorthodox that all may be....He's full of surprises!

Working him into the general scheme of things has added to the fun of watching these guys play without Rondo and Sully being around...

I have no idea how far we will go in the post season? But I kinda like that sort of a mystery....

I just hope we can recover from all the recent nagging injuries and peak at the right time.....

"I have no idea" is the optimum word...

People here all think they can do Doc's job better than Doc...

And they have little to no respect for the game planning and preparation that dictates what happens with this team.

It's all about ego.....I hate these redundant posts....

How many times do you need to discuss this without something sinking in?

[Tenbomber]

I'm thinking that Doc will come around to starting Jeff in the playoffs....He's too good to sit on the bench and watch....He needs to play big minutes....

I also like what Jordan Crawford has brought to this team, reguardless how unconventional and how unorthodox that all may be....He's full of surprises!

Working him into the general scheme of things has added to the fun of watching these guys play without Rondo and Sully being around...

I have no idea how far we will go in the post season? But I kinda like that sort of a mystery....

I just hope we can recover from all the recent nagging injuries and peak at the right time.....

"I have no idea" is the optimum word...

People here all think they can do Doc's job better than Doc...

And they have little to no respect for the game planning and preparation that dictates what happens with this team.

It's all about ego.....I hate these redundant posts....

How many times do you need to discuss this without something sinking in?

Clever use of that "optimum word" Hendrix.....glad I was able to teach that one to you...

And you are right about Doc as well....

People should get off of his case....and Danny's too...

Just enjoy the team we have!

[AgentGreen]

Can some people tweet Green and say to him that he should practice more with his left hand, just to make him realise how important he is for our offense and that we fans also can see what his weakness is. Kind of a wakeup call in case he isn't realising it.

The more people tweet, the better.

[Ben-N1ce]

It's blatantly obvious he doesn't like to go left and that he sucks at it.

[ermocrate]

Jeff Green's isolation plays (using mySynergySports)
By Jeff Clark on Mar 23 2013, 3:12p @celticsblog

So I have been gifted with a mySynergySports.com account. For those that don't know already, this is a bit like handing Maserati keys to a teenager. I don't know what I'm doing and I'm likely to hurt myself and wreck someone's front yard. However, I shall try to pull out of the driveway slowly and deliberately and see if I can make sense of this thing.

You see, mySynergySports.com lets you see stats broken down to really interesting levels of detail. For example, you can see how many offensive possessions a specific player spots up for jump shots or uses a pick and roll (as the ball handler or the roller). Then you can take that data and watch video of each of the possessions. This lets you see tendencies (always goes left/right) and highlights strengths and weaknesses. It is basically a scout's best friend.

So what I did was focus on Jeff Green. The guy fascinates me. He has this amazing skillset, and he seems to be figuring out how to use those skills to succeed more and more. Here's my rudimentary findings.

Right off the bat, the breakdown of offensive plays is interesting. Out of 812 offensive plays, 203 of them were spot up jumpers (where he hit an impressive 47% in field goal percentage). Another 122 were in transition (a very healthy 60%). He only shot 34% on post ups which was 114 times. Next on the list was isolations but I'll come back to that. 42 times he was the ball handler on pick and rolls (32%) and 45 times he was the roll man (41%). Finally, he got the ball on cuts 46 times for a really impressive 73% FG%.

That's a lot of data, and there's a ton that you could do with it. I chose to focus on his isolations. I see him at the top of the key with the ball in his hand more and more these days. He waits, dribbles, stutter steps, gathers, then winds up and drives at the basket. Often times he side-jumps past a defender, using his agility, length, and hangtime to scoop, push, or float the ball at the basket. When it works it is a thing of beauty. When it doesn't, it seems a bit forced. Those were my general impressions before I opened up mySynergySports.

Here's what mySynergySports taught me. Of the 105 iso plays, he converted 38% of them. This is somewhat comparable to Paul Pierce's 39.7% success rate. I'm sure I could dig in a lot more with the stats, but the rest of this is observations off of watching dozens of Jeff Green iso plays in a row.

As Doc has mentioned in the past, they love to create mismatches for Jeff Green. A large majority of these isos were designed to get him set up one on one with a big man too far from the paint to be effective. In Miami he feasted on Birdman and poor Luis Scola didn't know what to do with him in Phoenix. There were even times when a guard would come over to offer up a screen and because Jeff knew he had the mismatch he wanted, he would waive it off or run the other way and wait for space to open up.

You want to talk about Rondo pounding the ball waiting for something to happen, just watch Green on one of these plays. He's got nobody within 3 feet of him so he just bounces the ball like he's a kid waiting for the next pickup game to start. He waits, waits, watches, surveys, starts, stops, backs up, then starts again. You'd forgive his teammates if they simply fell asleep. If I had more time, I'd focus on what his teammates did on these posessions. If they are smart they'll try to seal their man and/or start boxing out when he hits his stride.

HE ATTACKS THE LANE LIKE RANDALL CUNNINGHAM USED TO THROW PASSES

He attacks the lane like Randall Cunningham used to throw passes - with a big windup and strong release. Once he commits, he's going. That can be a good thing or a bad thing. It is good in that he doesn't second guess his decision and you need to have a determination when you drive to the hoop. It is bad in that he doesn't seem to know what to do when his options are cut off from him. A few times he did try to pass out to the perimeter, but one sailed out of bounds and another was a perfect pass that was ruined when he ran over the guy guarding him for an offensive foul.

However, when he does find that seam, he's very, very creative. He uses runners, scoop shots, layups, and occasionally breaks through for a nice dunk. He even mixes in a step-back jumper that he can hit. He doesn't seem to have much of a pull up jumper however. That would be a great next step for him to take because it would give him a good option if the defense cuts off his first option.

So there you have it. A layman's scouting report on Jeff Green's iso plays. It is a good weapon to have because he can generate offense - perhaps once other sets break down. It also seems to help get him into a rhythm and feel the game better (rather than just catching and shooting jumpers cold off the bench). He's a tweener and if you are going to live with disadvantages on matchups, you better make use of the advantages he creates on other matchups.

Hope this was an interesting read. Next time you see him with the ball at the top of the key looking to drive, you'll have some background understanding of what he's likely to do.

[wigglestrue]

So, I guess he'll be starting for a while.
Again, without the synergy of playing next to KG.
So, that'll still mean he will have started ZERO games with BOTH Garnett and Pierce.
(Not to mention Rondo. What was that again about Rondo being left with no one after a trade?)

Hey, gotta give credit Bass for a heck of a game, last night.
Of course, the hero of the game was: Jeff Green.

[Tenbomber]

It's blatantly obvious he doesn't like to go left and that he sucks at it.

Just like last night?

Hugh?

[wigglestrue]

Thanks to the KG injury, now that Bass and Green are both starting, I can't be guilty of bashing Bass for starting over Green, for at least another week. Bass was decent last game, too, always makes an effort, anyway. Green, of course, had his now-becoming-usual ho-hum 11-20, 3-5 3pt, 4 reb, 4 ast, 2stl, 1 blk, 27 points kind of game. (One turnover, to boot.) To avoid pimping Green relentlessly, I'll point out that, compared to nurses and teachers and firefighters, Green is massively overpaid. But compared to other forwards in the NBA...not so much, now, eh? Hell, he might even be becoming underpaid, lol.

[wigglestrue]

Here's what an off-game might look like now from Green:
Yes, 10-for-14, 2-for-5 from three, only one turnover, 27 points, blah blah blah.
But he missed 3 of 8 free throws, had only 4 boards, 1 assist, and no blocks or steals.
Come on, dude, you're getting paid the max, so act like...
Oh, he's not paid the max? He's paid what?



No comment on Bass.

[BfB]

Here's what an off-game might look like now from Green:
Yes, 10-for-14, 2-for-5 from three, only one turnover, 27 points, blah blah blah.
But he missed 3 of 8 free throws, had only 4 boards, 1 assist, and no blocks or steals.
Come on, dude, you're getting paid the max, so act like...
Oh, he's not paid the max? He's paid what?



No comment on Bass.

Well stated

[Slartibartfast]

The key going forward (that is, as long as the Pierce/KG era continues) is whether Green can be this effective when he's not playing the 4/5 in a hyper-small ball line-up with a blazing pace.

Because as great as it is to see Green's offensive game blossom, I'm not sure the system we are running is sustainable. Green is just so weak as a rebounder and interior defender that he really has to be on offensively to make up for the losses suffered in those areas when he sees extended time at the 4. KG can provide a lot of coverage for those weaknesses (though not so much on the boards anymore), but he can't play heavy minutes, and he also struggles to run the floor as consistently as Bass and Wilcox, limiting some of Green's effectiveness as a transition scorer (when KG and Pierce share the floor especially, both tend to function as trailers, leaving Green and the guards to go 3-on-5 in transition).

I worry that when the team is full strength again (KG and later Rondo and Sully are back in the rotation) and playing against opponents that are full strength, Green won't get the quantity or quality of transition usage that he's been getting, and that he'll have to earn his money more as a defender and half-court offensive player, areas where he's been mostly average.

But I think Ainge realizes this too and clearly values Green quite highly. The targeting of Deandre Jordan makes a lot of sense in this light - a Wilcox-type running the floor but with more defending/rebounding chops (or at least potential). Allows you to play more in transition and play Jeff Green as more of an offensive focal point at the 4. In fact, by ditching KG (and the Rondo/Pierce & KG sets that form much of the foundation of our half-court offense), you pretty much force Doc to implement the blazing tempo we've seen and utilize Green as a high-usage scoring option.

Not that that's good for the win column in the immediate sense. But it does get a lot more out of Jeff Green the asset than the complementary role he was given in 10/11 and the beginning of this year.

[15th overall]

It's blatantly obvious he doesn't like to go left and that he sucks at it.

Just like last night?

Hugh?

Don't call him Hugh, Shirley.


RIP Leslie Nielsen

[wigglestrue]

After a pedestrian 10/7/5 game, looks like Green is back into beast mode.
34/6/1/1/4. 13-for-19. 3-for-4 threes. His efficiency as a starter is...Lebronesque.

Nice game for Bass, too.

At this point, dare I say...is Jeff Green now the best player on the Celtics?

(Hey, remember when we traded Perkins for Green, and so many freaked? Good times.)

[TheOGJabroni]

After a pedestrian 10/7/5 game, looks like Green is back into beast mode.
34/6/1/1/4. 13-for-19. 3-for-4 threes. His efficiency as a starter is...Lebronesque.

Nice game for Bass, too.

At this point, dare I say...is Jeff Green now the best player on the Celtics?

(Hey, remember when we traded Perkins for Green, and so many freaked? Good times.)

I'd reckon he is our best player. At least while Rondo is down. When he's back next year, it'll be interesting. Good thing is, they seem to be tailor made to play together. The future is bright with these two + Sully and Bradley as budding young players.

[exculpatory]

Jeff has had a great run since Rondo went down, and has put up some great numbers of late - the best stretch of his career. I am happy for him. But he is not anywhere near Paul, not even close.

Maybe you missed the part where Paul has put up staggering ALL PRO stat lines since the ASG and during March 2013. And three triple doubles. And multiple clutch Js down the stretch of multiple games. I have only posted these numbers every other day.

If Jeff can continue to play this well consistently, it bodes very well for the Celtics in the short & long term.

The real question is whether he should start along side Paul when KG comes back.

[wigglestrue]

Are you frigging kidding me?

Jeff has had a great run since Rondo went down, and has put up some great numbers of late - the best stretch of his career. I am happy for him. But he is not anywhere near Paul, not even close.

Maybe you missed the part where Paul has put up staggering ALL PRO stat lines since the ASG and during March 2013. And three triple doubles. And multiple clutch Js down the stretch of multiple games. I have only posted these numbers every other frigging day.

If Jeff can continue to play this well consistently, it bodes very well for the Celtics, but he has a long long long long long long way to go before his name is spoken in the same sentence as Paul Pierce.

Consistency aside, since that may just be a matter of waiting...
Green as a starter has been, like, pretty damn amazing.
Yes, Pierce had a pretty damn amazing March. But...
Pierce's March vs. Green's starts? I take Green.

[exculpatory]

Are you frigging kidding me?

Jeff has had a great run since Rondo went down, and has put up some great numbers of late - the best stretch of his career. I am happy for him. But he is not anywhere near Paul, not even close.

Maybe you missed the part where Paul has put up staggering ALL PRO stat lines since the ASG and during March 2013. And three triple doubles. And multiple clutch Js down the stretch of multiple games. I have only posted these numbers every other frigging day.

If Jeff can continue to play this well consistently, it bodes very well for the Celtics, but he has a long long long long long long way to go before his name is spoken in the same sentence as Paul Pierce.

Consistency aside, since that may just be a matter of waiting...
Green as a starter has been, like, pretty damn amazing.
Yes, Pierce had a pretty damn amazing March. But...
Pierce's March vs. Green's starts? I take Green.

Knock yourself out.

[bucknersrevenge]

Yeah I'm not ready to call Green the best player on the team. That's still Paul. But you have to be loving the evolution of Jeff Green now into a bonafide scoring option. I just hope that when KG comes back and when we get into the playoffs they don't try to marginalize him anymore. His teammates have to continue to look for him. He has to continue to be aggressive. And Doc has to continue to find ways to get this kid the ball and allow him to take advantage of his skills. And I look forward to seeing him next year with a legit pg at his side.