Celtics and Clippers Deal #2 UPDATE DEAD, DEAD, DEAD

[Geoffrey P]

Original thread HERE

[Berkcelt]

The title of this thread amuses me, even more than the original's.

[The Corey's]

All I can say is I'm excited to start the rebuilding process. If Danny gets a pick in next years draft and they commit to tanking then what they ultimately do is get a top 10 pick (praying for number 1) and a pick somewhere in the 20s in what is considered one the deepest drafts in years.

All that just by letting doc walk. I can live with that. Adding kg I hope would get you a draft pick. Sure DJ is young and has more years left but that's certainly a net positive for the clippers for next season alone.

Ideally I can settle for two draft picks and DJ for doc and kg. but I'd love to unload lee 3 years is a long time to commit to a player on a losing team.

[illmatic24]

Still hoping the current rumored trade doesn't happen. If it's Jordan, Butler, 2013 1st, 2014 1st for KG and Terry then I can kind of live with it, I guess. Only because everyone says next year's draft is going to be so amazing and I have thoughts in my head of Danny being able to trade up in this year's draft with that extra pick to land someone like Shabazz.

If we're able to trade Terry, can the Celtics use the MLE again whenever they want including this offseason?

[Avalanche]

I still just don't see a positive to the deal.. it leaves SO much work to be done, whether we want to compete or rebuild

Our team salary would actually go up, Jordan and KG each have 2 years left on their deals but Garnett Is obviously the superior player and a pick that is late in the 20's..

Danny has to either get multiple assets or include bad contracts or we are going to be caught in no mans land, high salary, low value trade chips on long term deals and a team that will consistently get a low playoff seed

This deal needs to be the key move in either completely rebuilding or reloading.. right now all it does is replace our starting center with an inferior one on a more expensive deal, removes our coach and gives us a late first round pick, which is something u can get with far smaller trades then this

I just don't get it..

Rondo
Bradley/Lee/Terry
Pierce/Green
Bass/Sullinger
Jordan/Melo

What does that team do? obviously there are more moves to be made but look at how many pieces would have to be on the move for that team to even have a real direction, more has to be included into this clippers deal or there is no point in doing it.. almost the opposite

[Tirion]

I still just don't see a positive to the deal.. it leaves SO much work to be done, whether we want to compete or rebuild

Of course. You can't rebuild in one move. It's the first step of many.

[Avalanche]

I still just don't see a positive to the deal.. it leaves SO much work to be done, whether we want to compete or rebuild

Of course. You can't rebuild in one move. It's the first step of many.

Come on I know that... what I'm saying is that from a team and fan perspective this is HUGE, we are trading a heart and soul of a team in Garnett and Doc who has been entrenched with the organisation for near a decade for what?

Jordan is a decent big man prospect, but when he's getting paid $13 million, giving you less than Garnett on a bigger deal...I don't see it as being a step at all, may as well just let them all go.

Would Garnett say no to a trade to OKC, Chicago, San Antonio, Indiana etc if he was told we were rebuilding? sure he might threaten to retire but they might at least give us a better pick and a shorter contract or a cheap young prospect instead of one already getting paid like an All-Star... if we did that, then let Doc go to TV and lose millions a year, we still end up in a better situation

Our salary situation stays the same and we are still stuck with the same bad contracts we have now, I don't really see it as taking a step in any direction at all.. that's the problem

[soxfan2003]

Still hoping the current rumored trade doesn't happen. If it's Jordan, Butler, 2013 1st, 2014 1st for KG and Terry then I can kind of live with it, I guess. Only because everyone says next year's draft is going to be so amazing and I have thoughts in my head of Danny being able to trade up in this year's draft with that extra pick to land someone like Shabazz.

If we're able to trade Terry, can the Celtics use the MLE again whenever they want including this offseason?

I'm not sure but there really is no reason to use the MLE on a veteran if the team is tanking. The only player I could see being worth taking a 1-2 year gamble on would be someone like Oden and even in that situation, if he started playing well the Celtics would have to rest him so the team can lose more games.

I would actually prefer the picks in 2016 and 2018 since the Clippers will be good next season. This allows KG and PP to play 2 more years and then retire. Perhaps by then, Chris Paul has slowed down more/gotten hurt and/or BG gets hurt. The Clippers could fall apart by 2016 and/or 2018.

[tfmiii]

trying to look at it from LAC perspective, given what sully00 has said regarding this being Ainge's gambit:

They did not want to do the deal at the deadline, VDN did, turns out he was right.

But the people left are the ones who voted no. Maybe they see it this way...

KG on last legs, currently injured but resting the ankle, turned in gutsy performance for us vs knicks but was not 100% - who is his backup? Odom? Hollins? will he break down in LAC or is the Bledsoe deal to bring in a backup from Utah, say Big Al?? If so, then you can see why they will not budge on Bledsoe, since if they don't have relief for Garnett he may well not make it thru the season. so for them is KG essentially a backup/closer?

Paul Pierce, turned in a magnificent season, but ran out of gas, should benefit greatly from being the 3rd option. Who spells him? Does Barnes come back at a discount?

Doc, he is needed to keep the gang together, but expensive

If they don't pull of this deal then they risk losing CP3, but what if they go to CP3 and say, 'we are getting Big Al for Bledsoe and Butler, is that enough for him to re-sign? hard to say

Their hemming and hawing seems illogical... if they were just going to lowball us you would think they would just say this is our price, no negotiating.

And perhaps they could get away with it since they have an apparent monopsony: KG has the no trade clause and will likely only waive it for the LA area. But then why all the haggling? Why was Bledsoe in then out?

Why the constant leaks? Perhaps they were trying to make it so toxic that Doc could not go back to Boston, if so they have probably succeeded. But only at the cost of damaging Doc's 'loyalty/ubuntu/team-first' brand, which could cost him in the locker room... or not.

all very puzzling

[LuckyLeprichan]

Come on I know that... what I'm saying is that from a team and fan perspective this is HUGE, we are trading a heart and soul of a team in Garnett and Doc who has been entrenched with the organisation for near a decade for what?

Jordan is a decent big man prospect, but when he's getting paid $13 million, giving you less than Garnett on a bigger deal...I don't see it as being a step at all, may as well just let them all go.

Would Garnett say no to a trade to OKC, Chicago, San Antonio, Indiana etc if he was told we were rebuilding? sure he might threaten to retire but they might at least give us a better pick and a shorter contract or a cheap young prospect instead of one already getting paid like an All-Star... if we did that, then let Doc go to TV and lose millions a year, we still end up in a better situation

KG is far more likely to retire or reject a trade to anywhere other than the Clippers even if we tell him we're rebuilding. Do you not remember how hard it was to get him to accept a trade away from Minnesota?

It's simple: Our choices are trade KG/Doc and get 1sts and a decent young big in Jordan, or sit back, do nothing, lose KG and Doc both to retirement next year, and end up with nothing to show for it.

Getting a decent young big for a player who's got 1 season left in the tank is absolutely a good deal. You're worrying too much about contracts. You can always find ways to dump salary if you decide you want to go the FA route.

[SuperDeluxe]

trying to look at it from LAC perspective, given what sully00 has said regarding this being Ainge's gambit:

They did not want to do the deal at the deadline, VDN did, turns out he was right.

But the people left are the ones who voted no. Maybe they see it this way...

KG on last legs, currently injured but resting the ankle, turned in gutsy performance for us vs knicks but was not 100% - who is his backup? Odom? Hollins? will he break down in LAC or is the Bledsoe deal to bring in a backup from Utah, say Big Al??

Interesting. Put things in perspective a little bit. I've started wondering if the Clippers are still holding on to Bledsoe as insurance in case Chris Paul bolts?

[Avalanche]

Come on I know that... what I'm saying is that from a team and fan perspective this is HUGE, we are trading a heart and soul of a team in Garnett and Doc who has been entrenched with the organisation for near a decade for what?

Jordan is a decent big man prospect, but when he's getting paid $13 million, giving you less than Garnett on a bigger deal...I don't see it as being a step at all, may as well just let them all go.

Would Garnett say no to a trade to OKC, Chicago, San Antonio, Indiana etc if he was told we were rebuilding? sure he might threaten to retire but they might at least give us a better pick and a shorter contract or a cheap young prospect instead of one already getting paid like an All-Star... if we did that, then let Doc go to TV and lose millions a year, we still end up in a better situation

KG is far more likely to retire or reject a trade to anywhere other than the Clippers even if we tell him we're rebuilding. Do you not remember how hard it was to get him to accept a trade away from Minnesota?

It's simple: Our choices are trade KG/Doc and get 1sts and a decent young big in Jordan, or sit back, do nothing, lose KG and Doc both to retirement next year, and end up with nothing to show for it.

Getting a decent young big for a player who's got 1 season left in the tank is absolutely a good deal. You're worrying too much about contracts. You can always find ways to dump salary if you decide you want to go the FA route.

This is what im saying... if you are giving up the best player in the deal and a guy that is considered a top 5 coach THAT is your opportunity to shed salary.. at least one bad contract surely

Nobody should be content with getting Jordan and a 25 pick in a weak draft for our coach and KG.. Danny definitely shouldn't be. Additional assets, dump some salary, something, has to be incentive otherwise we could well be better off just shedding all the money

[LuckyLeprichan]

This is what im saying... if you are giving up the best player in the deal and a guy that is considered a top 5 coach THAT is your opportunity to shed salary.. at least one bad contract surely

Nobody should be content with getting Jordan and a 25 pick in a weak draft for our coach and KG.. Danny definitely shouldn't be. Additional assets, dump some salary, something, has to be incentive otherwise we could well be better off just shedding all the money

KG is the best player but his value is less than Jordan's now from a long term perspective. It's a young man's game.

The rumored trade I've seen most recently is KG and we dump 1 contract (probably Terry) for Jordan and at least 2 picks+1 expiring contract.

Not sure where you got "KG for Jordan and a 25 pick" this year. I haven't seen that deal once yet.

[FlatearthZorro]

If we can't shed any salary, Danny needs to walk away, and let the Clippers do whatever they want to do... This has gone too far, it's out of control already.

[SuperDeluxe]

Not sure where you got "KG for Jordan and a 25 pick" this year. I haven't seen that deal once yet.

Wojo's latest:

After pushing for the Clippers to take back long-term contracts, the Celtics relented and have shown willingness to complete the deal for DeAndre Jordan and two first-round draft picks, sources said. The Clippers are willing to give the Celtics Jordan and one draft pick, but were resisting a second future pick, sources said.

Link: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--so ... 59443.html

[LuckyLeprichan]

Not sure where you got "KG for Jordan and a 25 pick" this year. I haven't seen that deal once yet.

Wojo's latest:

After pushing for the Clippers to take back long-term contracts, the Celtics relented and have shown willingness to complete the deal for DeAndre Jordan and two first-round draft picks, sources said. The Clippers are willing to give the Celtics Jordan and one draft pick, but were resisting a second future pick, sources said.

Link: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--so ... 59443.html

All part of the negotiating process. Team A gives ground. Then Team B gives ground and they ultimately meet in the middle. Obviously the Clippers aren't going to start with their best offer.

[Avalanche]

This is what im saying... if you are giving up the best player in the deal and a guy that is considered a top 5 coach THAT is your opportunity to shed salary.. at least one bad contract surely

Nobody should be content with getting Jordan and a 25 pick in a weak draft for our coach and KG.. Danny definitely shouldn't be. Additional assets, dump some salary, something, has to be incentive otherwise we could well be better off just shedding all the money

KG is the best player but his value is less than Jordan's now from a long term perspective. It's a young man's game.

The rumored trade I've seen most recently is KG and we dump 1 contract (probably Terry) for Jordan and at least 2 picks+1 expiring contract.

Not sure where you got "KG for Jordan and a 25 pick" this year. I haven't seen that deal once yet.

So you're an update behind... Woj and many others have reported the talks again stalled because the Clippers were unwilling to take on either Lee or Terry, this is why im saying the deal has so little value for us

They aren't starting with that offer either, this has been in the works all week... we are getting close to what the final deal will actually be and right now its a basic KG for DAJ/pick swap with Doc allowed to move to LA as well.

What im saying is that deal does nothing for us and needs more value for it to give us any real help in finding a future direction for the team, if we dump a contract or two then it improves slightly and an additional pick or asset would be ideal.

Right now, if DA takes the offer he well and truly lost the negotiations IMO

[Avalanche]

We would have a worse (all be it younger) starting center getting paid more money, likely a worse coach and a very late pick... while still being stuck with the same basically the same team, same bad contracts...

If youre going to shake up the organisation this dramatically, I really hope DA manages to give us more of a boost to the rebuild than just Jordan and someone like Crabbe/Hardaway/Ledo

[Captain_Caveman]

All part of the negotiating process. Team A gives ground. Then Team B gives ground and they ultimately meet in the middle. Obviously the Clippers aren't going to start with their best offer.

They haven't moved at all. Been widely reported that this has been their offer all along.

Pass.

I wouldn't take DJ and the 25 for free.

[Captain_Caveman]

With the amount of leaks, starting to wonder how much of this is just for show. I get why Doc is leaking stuff. He wants to do this and cannot speak to the Clippers directly.

Meanwhile, if it falls through, Ainge now gets cover for dumping some pretty popular guys and the Clippers get to give Paul lip service about how hard they tried to upgrade.