2014-15 Tanking thread

klemen4 · Post #901 » by **klemen4** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 4:04 pm

Edug27 wrote:7. Sacramento
8. Detroit
9. Boston

I can see Detroit and Sac passing Boston. George Karl and Reggie Jackson provide them a spark. The 7 spot seems very realistic.

7th is like a dream case scenario...If we manage to get it also after Thomas trade, this season for me would be success.

Banks2Pierce · Post #902 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 4:10 pm

Good #experience gained last night getting slapped around by Lebron.

Post #903 » by **Slartibartfast** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 4:17 pm

Gotta find a way to carry that downward momentum into the Utah game.

CeltsfanSinceBirth · Post #904 » by **CeltsfanSinceBirth** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 6:09 pm

Ok, Lebron whupped me into submission. Count me in for Team Tank. If the Cs were to squeeze in and face the Hawks or Raptors, I would have been ok with that, as I think the team could have taken a game or two, and be competitive. But the thought of facing the Cavs and getting spanked like last night.....no thanks! So yeah, count me in for the tank, but I do so grudgingly. I'll still be happy if the team wins hard fought games down the stretch.

benjaminbuttonz · Post #905 » by **benjaminbuttonz** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:00 pm

Anyone else on the tank/make the playoffs see saw ride? Im back on the tank after last night but who knows if we come out in win impressively i could be back on the "make the playoffs" side.

OFWGKTA · Post #906 » by **OFWGKTA** » Wed Mar 4, 2015 11:24 pm

benjaminbuttonz wrote:Anyone else on the tank/make the playoffs see saw ride? Im back on the tank after last night but who knows if we come out in win impressively i could be back on the "make the playoffs" side.

Me, every game.

CeltsfanSinceBirth · Post #907 » by **CeltsfanSinceBirth** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:58 am

Brilliant tank move by the Jazz tonight, sticking a bunch of small guys on Zeller

Captain_Caveman · Post #908 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:10 am

This has AIDSbola.

truth18 · Post #909 » by **truth18** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:15 am

Zbola?

Tank is far from dead though. If we win the next three or two of three it might be time for you to worry.

Captain_Caveman · Post #910 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:49 am

truth18 wrote:Zbola?

Tank is far from dead though. If we win the next three or two of three it might be time for you to worry.

I am usually happy either way with these games, but there was no winning tonight.

Just can't get excited about beating a lousy Jazz team by a point at home, and especially not that all this "player development" is taking place when 2 of our 3 best prospects are out injured lol.

Patsfan1081 · Post #911 » by **Patsfan1081** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 5:06 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
truth18 wrote:Zbola?

Tank is far from dead though. If we win the next three or two of three it might be time for you to worry.

I am usually happy either way with these games, but there was no winning tonight.

Just can't get excited about beating a lousy Jazz team by a point at home, and especially not that all this "player development" is taking place when 2 of our 3 best prospects are out injured lol.

Especially when the youngs guys played so horrible, James Young played only seven minutes, and Heywood wasn't given the ball at all for the Jazz at all. Games like this had me thinking, lose it and we're alone at eight overall in the lottery, win and we're at ten. what's the difference to say we're Espn mocks the position? Sim lottery was WCS and Johnson, sometimes Mario at eight, at ten it's Oubre every time.

brackdan70 · Post #912 » by **brackdan70** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 5:11 am

Patsfan1081 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
truth18 wrote:Zbola?

Tank is far from dead though. If we win the next three or two of three it might be time for you to worry.

I am usually happy either way with these games, but there was no winning tonight.

Just can't get excited about beating a lousy Jazz team by a point at home, and especially not that all this "player development" is taking place when 2 of our 3 best prospects are out injured lol.

Especially when the youngs guys played so horrible, James Young played only seven minutes, and Heywood wasn't given the ball at all for the Jazz at all. Games like this had me thinking, lose it and we're alone at eight overall in the lottery, win and we're at ten. what's the difference to say we're Espn mocks the position? Sim lottery was WCS and Johnson, sometimes Mario at eight, at ten it's Oubre every time.

couldn't have said it better myself.

campybatman · Post #913 » by **campybatman** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 6:18 am

On the one hand, you enjoy watching your team play well and win games. On the other hand, you're a realist. So, why worsen your position in the lottery?

humblebum · Post #914 » by **humblebum** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 2:44 pm

Not sure how a team that could at best land 7-9 in the lottery could be considered a tanking team. Clearly, the team has no interest in tanking from management, to coaching or the players.

DakoBarr · Post #915 » by **DakoBarr** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:11 pm

I don't get the arguments against tanking in this thread. It's a great way to make light of things when stuff goes bad, like against CLE. And the arguments against it are so obvious they don't need restated. No original speculation, just, "hey you guys suck stop it plz."

It makes me feel like when people criticize the Celtics in any capacity, the people who sound off against tanking in this thread are the types to get red in the face and start acting like children.

Also, management is clearly not in win now mode, either.

DarkAzcura · Post #916 » by **DarkAzcura** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:15 pm

DakoBarr wrote:I don't get the arguments against tanking in this thread. It's a great way to make light of things when stuff goes bad, like against CLE. And the arguments against it are so obvious they don't need restated. No original speculation, just, "hey you guys suck stop it plz."

It makes me feel like when people criticize the Celtics in any capacity, the people who sound off against tanking in this thread are the types to get red in the face and start acting like children.

Also, management is clearly not in win now mode, either.

I'm more indifferent than anything (lean towards winning over tanking, though), but there's really no reason to bring in IT and McGee, whose skill-sets fill our two largest needs, other than to try to make a playoff run now. Originally bringing in IT just seemed like a smart move because of how little it took so I can see the argument that tanking should continue (especially with the Sully and Oly injuries), but the Celtics just went out of there way to sign McGee when the top 10 of this draft has 2 or 3 centers that project to be potential rim protectors. He may not work out (and in that case, we are exactly where we left off I suppose), but if he does, he really solidifies our defense, which points towards them trying to win now more than anything.

DakoBarr · Post #917 » by **DakoBarr** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:25 pm

DarkAzcura wrote:
DakoBarr wrote:I don't get the arguments against tanking in this thread. It's a great way to make light of things when stuff goes bad, like against CLE. And the arguments against it are so obvious they don't need restated. No original speculation, just, "hey you guys suck stop it plz."

It makes me feel like when people criticize the Celtics in any capacity, the people who sound off against tanking in this thread are the types to get red in the face and start acting like children.

Also, management is clearly not in win now mode, either.

I'm more indifferent than anything (lean towards winning over tanking, though), but there's really no reason to bring in IT and McGee, whose skill-sets fill our two largest needs, other than to try to make a playoff run now. Originally bringing in IT just seemed like a smart move because of how little it took so I can see the argument that tanking should continue, but the Celtics just went out of there way to sign McGee when the top 10 of this draft has 2 or 3 centers that project to be potential rim protectors. He may not work out (and in that case, we are exactly where we left off I suppose), but if he does, he really solidifies our defense, which points towards them trying to win now more than anything.

Improving and maximizing your chances to win a championship this year are two different things. You could make the argument for both IT and McGee that they are buy low assets, just waiting to be flipped given the right opportunity. It's nothing for the Cs to throw <5 mil at McGee when his value could skyrocket at some point during his tenure, which is absolutely plausible, especially considering we are a fringe playoff team. If he's what throws us over the top, then so be it, but then we can maybe make a move for DMC with him.

In other words, we didn't go after Asik for a pick. We didn't go after Dragic for picks. We didn't go after Jackson. Considering the pick that was given for IT, you could argue that we were simply upgrading our asset. IT's contract goes further, and perhaps his value will be more than a >25 pick by the time we would've got it anyway. These are also players with skills that could potentially be parts of something greater, whatever that may be.

Post #918 » by **ParticleMan** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:50 pm

IT is here for 3 more years so it wasn't really a win-now move, it was just an opportunity that arose so ainge took it.

as for mcgee, dude was just paid not to play by one of the worst teams in the league, it's a bit of a stretch to think he could be some kind of key piece for a playoff run. it's just a classic buy-low move, maybe it pays off in future years, but if not then no big loss.

DarkAzcura · Post #919 » by **DarkAzcura** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 3:53 pm

DakoBarr wrote:
DarkAzcura wrote:
DakoBarr wrote:I don't get the arguments against tanking in this thread. It's a great way to make light of things when stuff goes bad, like against CLE. And the arguments against it are so obvious they don't need restated. No original speculation, just, "hey you guys suck stop it plz."

It makes me feel like when people criticize the Celtics in any capacity, the people who sound off against tanking in this thread are the types to get red in the face and start acting like children.

Also, management is clearly not in win now mode, either.

I'm more indifferent than anything (lean towards winning over tanking, though), but there's really no reason to bring in IT and McGee, whose skill-sets fill our two largest needs, other than to try to make a playoff run now. Originally bringing in IT just seemed like a smart move because of how little it took so I can see the argument that tanking should continue, but the Celtics just went out of there way to sign McGee when the top 10 of this draft has 2 or 3 centers that project to be potential rim protectors. He may not work out (and in that case, we are exactly where we left off I suppose), but if he does, he really solidifies our defense, which points towards them trying to win now more than anything.

Improving and maximizing your chances to win a championship this year are two different things. You could make the argument for both IT and McGee that they are buy low assets, just waiting to be flipped given the right opportunity. It's nothing for the Cs to throw <5 mil at McGee when his value could skyrocket at some point during his tenure, which is absolutely plausible, especially considering we are a fringe playoff team. If he's what throws us over the top, then so be it, but then we can maybe make a move for DMC with him.

In other words, we didn't go after Asik for a pick. We didn't go after Dragic for picks. We didn't go after Jackson. Considering the pick that was given for IT, you could argue that we were simply upgrading our asset. IT's contract goes further, and perhaps his value will be more than a >25 pick by the time we would've got it anyway. These are also players with skills that could potentially be parts of something greater, whatever that may be.

Doesn't change the fact that I don't think the Celtics are tanking. Everything you just said makes me feel they are in the process of being a win now team. There really is no reason to go for McGee if they weren't attempting to win now (win now doesn't mean competing for championships, but in this case trying to get into the playoffs) with all the centers there will be in the top 10 of this draft. Ainge could have easily stayed out of the McGee market and picked up a center like WCS in the upcoming draft and go from there. It may work out like that still, but Ainge is clearly trying to help get this team into the playoffs now.

I don't think we went after those players (Dragic, Jackson, etc) because the Celtics want to make a run in free agency. They also love IT. The only way this team is attracting any free agents is if we make the playoffs. I'm not saying this is Danny's only plan because if McGee doesn't work out, and we fall short of the playoffs, we'll obviously have other options to make this team better in the trade market (or draft), but I think it's clear what Ainge's plan A is now, imo, and it's not this year's potential lottery pick.

ParticleMan wrote:IT is here for 3 more years so it wasn't really a win-now move, it was just an opportunity that arose so ainge took it.

as for mcgee, dude was just paid not to play by one of the worst teams in the league, it's a bit of a stretch to think he could be some kind of key piece for a playoff run. it's just a classic buy-low move, maybe it pays off in future years, but if not then no big loss.

That is essentially my point except all of that doesn't mean it isn't a win now move. I agreed that IT wasn't necessarily a win now move in my original post; however, I think they made the McGee move in the hopes that it works out, and we get into the playoffs. Like I said, there is absolutely no reason to make this move if they absolutely wanted a top 10 pick as their plan A when the top 10 is full of potential rim protectors. Ainge could have easily just let this year ride out, miss the playoffs, and pick up WCS, but he made a move for a guy who can potentially protect the rim now and help move our defense up a notch. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. That's fine. We have a top 10 pick to fall back on if it doesn't work out, but to me, that is clearly plan B right now. I've always believed Ainge doesn't fall into one direction of team building 100% (until we actually become contenders again obviously). He rides the line and keeps his options open. That's what I like about him. That's why I've never really been pro-tanking or anti-tanking.

Post #920 » by **ParticleMan** » Thu Mar 5, 2015 4:07 pm

^^ yeah but i just don't think ainge cares much about W-L this year. the players and brad do, but not ainge. he is going to keep making trades with an eye to 2-3 years down the road making us into contenders. whether it helps or hurts in the short-term is not a concern. obviously he does have to factor in where we pick, but i get the sense he has never been that concerned about maximizing the draft position, he evaluates talent quite differently anyways than most GMs so he probably doesn't feel it's likely that someone is going to scoop his pick.