All-American, All-Purpose Thread the 4th (of July) Edition

[Captain_Caveman]

Isn't assimilating changing circumstances exactly what you do as a scout, GM, player or coach? That's the only thing. It's the "fixators" that paint themselves as realistic, create some entrenched view point, that everyone else stands inferior to. If you don't pre-select exactly what you want to see happen, and are willing to be flexible, in my experience, means that person is a sound thinker. The "realist" "entrenched into a singular view point" is really just a pessimist with a degree and a day job.

People are too simpleminded. It's like they can't hold the two ideas in their heads at the same time, so they assume that no one else could possibly have two possible paths to follow that he will be happy with, regardless of what circumstances transpire. I can love Winslow enough to want to trade up for him in the draft, but not love him so much that I choose him over building a fundamental core system from which to move forward, and taking the "multiple swings at the plate" approach to the draft. I was ALWAYS comfortable with both things... so that's not reactionary. That's me saying plan A is "get Winslow, or Cauley-Stein or Stanley Johnson, or Myles Turner or Devin Booker", plan B is get guys who you like at 16, 28 and 33 and see what you got. Do I think that those players from group A have higher upside? In some cases, yes. Some of those guys just seemed like really sure things, like Winslow because you know he's tough, high character, and he defends. Now, if Ainge went in there and drafted Frank Kaminsky and Jerian Grant I would be slitting my wrists right now.

That's not a reactionary stance... that legit pre-meditated flexibility to flow between either A or B preceding the draft... And everything I said I said about Winslow is true. I loved him pre draft hype, just based on his Duke performance. The measurements soured me on him (being a role player type offensively in the halfcourt is fine when I'm thinking he's 6'8" but not quite as sexy when he looks more 6'5"), I looked at other guys and eventually came back to my initial gut feeling that he could be that Smart type, who could overcome a lack of skill with great physicality, emotion and leadership.

I don't even mind the hate. I was the one of the lone Rondo realists on this board for most of the last 7-8 years. Trust me, I've learned how to take a beating on this board from fools and blowhards. A few of them done been vanquished in those debates at my hands... and they're still sticking around too.

Nah. You went all-in on the fact that we were going to have this great offseason not only without tanking, but because we didn't tank. You were very adamant about this, and spoke in absolute terms devoid of nuance. Anyone who didn't agree didn't understand basketball. Fact it didn't pan out seems to be everyone else's fault but your own.

I'm over it, but come on. You can't be that over the top and then not own it when it blows up on you.

As to Rondo, I'll own being too high on his market value, but keep in mind I was proactive about wanting to trade him for whatever we could get for a year and a half before he got dealt. I do think he and Green were our two best players back in December when I made the comment (you seem to be trying to put them below a bunch of players who weren't on the team yet), and more importantly, guy was a total gamer for us for a good 5-6 year stretch -- and especially in big games. No one gets to rewrite history on that.

So, either of you two have a take on today? The past is OVER - the new direction is clear: remain flexible and wait for something to come along.

The team decided before the draft that it wasn't going to even play this year's free agent market - that's why they put sommuch on the table for Winslow - their new master plan is teying to have the "most" free agent money each of the bext two years while banking on a breakout or two from their core guys.

Personally, I don't think they have a support scorer to make IT's life easier. Sully will fade after 30 games, per usual, and KO will be too damn scared to actually shoot. AB is not a high level scorer. Thought he could get to that 17-19 range, but I have re-adjusted ny expectstions to 15-17, which is fine, but not enough. The team needs somebody to help carry the load, so who does it?

I've been posting about the future the whole time. We have to stay patient and hope we get lucky with some of our picks and prospects. I think we can win 50, not that I hold that in high regard in the East, but it's going to be very difficult to add elite pieces from here. We are bringing knives to a gun fight. I'm disappointed, and I'm one of the guys who saw this coming. And agree that we don't have enough scoring.

[humblebum]

Humble, what I took from the Aim post was that you are quick to assimilate to changing circumstances, and I appreciate that you try to reframe negative outcomes in a positive light. That tendency is much appreciated by me, though I get why others may (imo mis-) perceive it as you flip flopping on issues.

Isn't assimilating changing circumstances exactly what you do as a scout, GM, player or coach? That's the only thing. It's the "fixators" that paint themselves as realistic, create some entrenched view point, that everyone else stands inferior to. If you don't pre-select exactly what you want to see happen, and are willing to be flexible, in my experience, means that person is a sound thinker. The "realist" "entrenched into a singular view point" is really just a pessimist with a degree and a day job.

People are too simpleminded. It's like they can't hold the two ideas in their heads at the same time, so they assume that no one else could possibly have two possible paths to follow that he will be happy with, regardless of what circumstances transpire. I can love Winslow enough to want to trade up for him in the draft, but not love him so much that I choose him over building a fundamental core system from which to move forward, and taking the "multiple swings at the plate" approach to the draft. I was ALWAYS comfortable with both things... so that's not reactionary. That's me saying plan A is "get Winslow, or Cauley-Stein or Stanley Johnson, or Myles Turner or Devin Booker", plan B is get guys who you like at 16, 28 and 33 and see what you got. Do I think that those players from group A have higher upside? In some cases, yes. Some of those guys just seemed like really sure things, like Winslow because you know he's tough, high character, and he defends. Now, if Ainge went in there and drafted Frank Kaminsky and Jerian Grant I would be slitting my wrists right now.

That's not a reactionary stance... that legit pre-meditated flexibility to flow between either A or B preceding the draft... And everything I said I said about Winslow is true. I loved him pre draft hype, just based on his Duke performance. The measurements soured me on him (being a role player type offensively in the halfcourt is fine when I'm thinking he's 6'8" but not quite as sexy when he looks more 6'5"), I looked at other guys and eventually came back to my initial gut feeling that he could be that Smart type, who could overcome a lack of skill with great physicality, emotion and leadership.

I don't even mind the hate. I was the one of the lone Rondo realists on this board for most of the last 7-8 years. Trust me, I've learned how to take a beating on this board from fools and blowhards. A few of them done been vanquished in those debates at my hands... and they're still sticking around too.

Nah. You went all-in on the fact that we were going to have this great offseason not only without tanking, but because we didn't tank. You were very adamant about this, and spoke in absolute terms devoid of nuance. Anyone who didn't agree didn't understand basketball. Fact it didn't pan out seems to be everyone else's fault but your own.

I'm over it, but come on. You can't be that over the top and then not own it when it blows up on you.

As to Rondo, I'll own being too high on his market value, but keep in mind I was proactive about wanting to trade him for whatever we could get for a year and a half before he got dealt. I do think he and Green were our two best players back in December when I made the comment (you seem to be trying to put them below a bunch of players who weren't on the team yet), and more importantly, guy was a total gamer for us for a good 5-6 year stretch -- and especially in big games. No one gets to rewrite history on that.

Predictable viewpoint from an "entrenched" thinker. Because you had one "fixed" position, does not mean that I did. Remember, not too long ago I was being accused of holding so many positions, that I couldn't "lose" this argument. Now you're claiming I thought one thing and bashed everyone who didn't agree? Yeah, nice try.

1. Thomas > any player in the 6-11 range (remember, I had Winslow BPA at 4/5, but admittedly I am not familiar with the Euros... still can't believe he slid past Mudiay, Stanimal and Frank, and yet I can see how his lack of polished halfcourt skills (read: offensive scoring upside) might not translate to an empty gym against a chair, nobody to defend and how does he show out? What is more important to recognize from the game film vs workout (and this is something that happened to me analyzing the draft, I went away from that "gut" feeling that he just has something special). Still take Thomas over Winslow though... love that little dude.

2. Get Thomas, Jerebko and trade up was plan A of the off-season, which for me, also included getting back in the draft mid-first to nab another role player there (loved the middle portion of this draft, and I think the C's made out like bandits for where they selected). I might have done a bit more, such as sacrificing Kelly/Sully on the fires of acquiring Winslow, but it just gets too sweet at a certain price, I'm not interested in that entree past a certain price.

3. Plan B was always to make your picks. Rozier is that high upside gamble I hoped Ainge would make, though I initially thought Jones/Martin/Anderson were more appropriate in this range, but the mocks were misleading, shooting (Hunter) and versatility defensively (Mickey) were all areas that I had identified as needs heading into the off-season. An underrated aspect of this approach to the draft is that potentially allows you to move on from some of your expendable, but more proven pieces to fill holes in the roster.

4. The free agent frenzy? Yeah, I got the bug a bit and got a little "ahead of schedule". Doesn't mean I don't think the Celtics are still THE destination. All it's going to take is a strong start to the season (which is what I'm predicting will happen), a couple foundering steps from Dallas (not looking great, but still hope in that brutal West with an aging Dirk and Parsons, who's always been good, but not great. Love Matthews though, wish him well) or Brooklyn flaming out(looking like a strong chance the rising tide in the East won't be lifting their boat with anchors like D-Will and JJ around) for the Celtics to be traders in hot commodities at the deadline.

5. Not completely ready to rule out some movement before the season starts either. After Gasol-Aldridge-Love I was more "trying to convince myself" of their merits and fit. Guys like Monroe, Harris, Lopez... good players, but do they fit as well as Jonas or Amir when you factor in the way Stevens wants to defend/play plus the opportunity cost of potentially hamstringing future moves? No, even without those considerations, it's possible that Crowder-Jonas-Amir are just BETTER than the 3 guys on the second tier who got a lot of love here, from me as well... just saying, this isn't set in stone yet.

6. I was always content to roll with Thomas-#16-Smart-Crowder-Sullinger-Zeller-Young-Jonas-Koufos/Lopez/*Fill in veteran big defender, so no, I'm not off base a flip flopper or anything of that nature. I've had a layered plan all off-season.

And here's a "spitball idea" that you don't need to paste into your "notepad" aim2please: Bradley for Koufos in a S&T.

[humblebum]

Get Koufos now using Bradley. Showcase Sullinger/Kelly in the first half of the year. Trade that along with a picks package for best available big or scorer. Ready to rock out.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Great more disingenuous posts by the long winded clown. Just love scrolling and scrolling here.

[BfB]

Isn't assimilating changing circumstances exactly what you do as a scout, GM, player or coach? That's the only thing. It's the "fixators" that paint themselves as realistic, create some entrenched view point, that everyone else stands inferior to. If you don't pre-select exactly what you want to see happen, and are willing to be flexible, in my experience, means that person is a sound thinker. The "realist" "entrenched into a singular view point" is really just a pessimist with a degree and a day job.

People are too simpleminded. It's like they can't hold the two ideas in their heads at the same time, so they assume that no one else could possibly have two possible paths to follow that he will be happy with, regardless of what circumstances transpire. I can love Winslow enough to want to trade up for him in the draft, but not love him so much that I choose him over building a fundamental core system from which to move forward, and taking the "multiple swings at the plate" approach to the draft. I was ALWAYS comfortable with both things... so that's not reactionary. That's me saying plan A is "get Winslow, or Cauley-Stein or Stanley Johnson, or Myles Turner or Devin Booker", plan B is get guys who you like at 16, 28 and 33 and see what you got. Do I think that those players from group A have higher upside? In some cases, yes. Some of those guys just seemed like really sure things, like Winslow because you know he's tough, high character, and he defends. Now, if Ainge went in there and drafted Frank Kaminsky and Jerian Grant I would be slitting my wrists right now.

That's not a reactionary stance... that legit pre-meditated flexibility to flow between either A or B preceding the draft... And everything I said I said about Winslow is true. I loved him pre draft hype, just based on his Duke performance. The measurements soured me on him (being a role player type offensively in the halfcourt is fine when I'm thinking he's 6'8" but not quite as sexy when he looks more 6'5"), I looked at other guys and eventually came back to my initial gut feeling that he could be that Smart type, who could overcome a lack of skill with great physicality, emotion and leadership.

I don't even mind the hate. I was the one of the lone Rondo realists on this board for most of the last 7-8 years. Trust me, I've learned how to take a beating on this board from fools and blowhards. A few of them done been vanquished in those debates at my hands... and they're still sticking around too.

Nah. You went all-in on the fact that we were going to have this great offseason not only without tanking, but because we didn't tank. You were very adamant about this, and spoke in absolute terms devoid of nuance. Anyone who didn't agree didn't understand basketball. Fact it didn't pan out seems to be everyone else's fault but your own.

I'm over it, but come on. You can't be that over the top and then not own it when it blows up on you.

As to Rondo, I'll own being too high on his market value, but keep in mind I was proactive about wanting to trade him for whatever we could get for a year and a half before he got dealt. I do think he and Green were our two best players back in December when I made the comment (you seem to be trying to put them below a bunch of players who weren't on the team yet), and more importantly, guy was a total gamer for us for a good 5-6 year stretch -- and especially in big games. No one gets to rewrite history on that.

Predictable viewpoint from an "entrenched" thinker. Because you had one "fixed" position, does not mean that I did. Remember, not too long ago I was being accused of holding so many positions, that I couldn't "lose" this argument. Now you're claiming I thought one thing and bashed everyone who didn't agree? Yeah, nice try.

1. Thomas > any player in the 6-11 range (remember, I had Winslow BPA at 4/5, but admittedly I am not familiar with the Euros... still can't believe he slid past Mudiay, Stanimal and Frank, and yet I can see how his lack of polished halfcourt skills (read: offensive scoring upside) might not translate to an empty gym against a chair, nobody to defend and how does he show out? What is more important to recognize from the game film vs workout (and this is something that happened to me analyzing the draft, I went away from that "gut" feeling that he just has something special). Still take Thomas over Winslow though... love that little dude.

2. Get Thomas, Jerebko and trade up was plan A of the off-season, which for me, also included getting back in the draft mid-first to nab another role player there (loved the middle portion of this draft, and I think the C's made out like bandits for where they selected). I might have done a bit more, such as sacrificing Kelly/Sully on the fires of acquiring Winslow, but it just gets too sweet at a certain price, I'm not interested in that entree past a certain price.

3. Plan B was always to make your picks. Rozier is that high upside gamble I hoped Ainge would make, though I initially thought Jones/Martin/Anderson were more appropriate in this range, but the mocks were misleading, shooting (Hunter) and versatility defensively (Mickey) were all areas that I had identified as needs heading into the off-season. An underrated aspect of this approach to the draft is that potentially allows you to move on from some of your expendable, but more proven pieces to fill holes in the roster.

4. The free agent frenzy? Yeah, I got the bug a bit and got a little "ahead of schedule". Doesn't mean I don't think the Celtics are still THE destination. All it's going to take is a strong start to the season (which is what I'm predicting will happen), a couple foundering steps from Dallas (not looking great, but still hope in that brutal West with an aging Dirk and Parsons, who's always been good, but not great. Love Matthews though, wish him well) or Brooklyn flaming out(looking like a strong chance the rising tide in the East won't be lifting their boat with anchors like D-Will and JJ around) for the Celtics to be traders in hot commodities at the deadline.

5. Not completely ready to rule out some movement before the season starts either. After Gasol-Aldridge-Love I was more "trying to convince myself" of their merits and fit. Guys like Monroe, Harris, Lopez... good players, but do they fit as well as Jonas or Amir when you factor in the way Stevens wants to defend/play plus the opportunity cost of potentially hamstringing future moves? No, even without those considerations, it's possible that Crowder-Jonas-Amir are just BETTER than the 3 guys on the second tier who got a lot of love here, from me as well... just saying, this isn't set in stone yet.

6. I was always content to roll with Thomas-#16-Smart-Crowder-Sullinger-Zeller-Young-Jonas-Koufos/Lopez/*Fill in veteran big defender, so no, I'm not off base a flip flopper or anything of that nature. I've had a layered plan all off-season.

And here's a "spitball idea" that you don't need to paste into your "notepad" aim2please: Bradley for Koufos in a S&T.

Enough with the backstory - its done, move on.

This team is positioned to be about the same as they were last year - scrappy and defensively sound, but with sub-par offense and shooting. They need HUGE development from their key guys to move the ball forward into ECF challenger level - aka Washington.

I don't see any trades that they'll make based on this mantra that they are now preserving their cap space. as much as possible - that means no big time trade unless its "franchise" tyoe stuff - hence the Amire 1 year deal.

This team appears to be in a holding pattern, which is fine, but many in the league felt that this was a year to really build up the quality of your team to improve attractiveness for next year when there is 10 times more competition - Ainge is banking on another solid season and 60 million in cap space being the key, alongside internal development and better draft assets.

We shall see who is right.

[fallguy]

Nah. You went all-in on the fact that we were going to have this great offseason not only without tanking, but because we didn't tank. You were very adamant about this, and spoke in absolute terms devoid of nuance. Anyone who didn't agree didn't understand basketball. Fact it didn't pan out seems to be everyone else's fault but your own.

I'm over it, but come on. You can't be that over the top and then not own it when it blows up on you.

As to Rondo, I'll own being too high on his market value, but keep in mind I was proactive about wanting to trade him for whatever we could get for a year and a half before he got dealt. I do think he and Green were our two best players back in December when I made the comment (you seem to be trying to put them below a bunch of players who weren't on the team yet), and more importantly, guy was a total gamer for us for a good 5-6 year stretch -- and especially in big games. No one gets to rewrite history on that.

Predictable viewpoint from an "entrenched" thinker. Because you had one "fixed" position, does not mean that I did. Remember, not too long ago I was being accused of holding so many positions, that I couldn't "lose" this argument. Now you're claiming I thought one thing and bashed everyone who didn't agree? Yeah, nice try.

1. Thomas > any player in the 6-11 range (remember, I had Winslow BPA at 4/5, but admittedly I am not familiar with the Euros... still can't believe he slid past Mudiay, Stanimal and Frank, and yet I can see how his lack of polished halfcourt skills (read: offensive scoring upside) might not translate to an empty gym against a chair, nobody to defend and how does he show out? What is more important to recognize from the game film vs workout (and this is something that happened to me analyzing the draft, I went away from that "gut" feeling that he just has something special). Still take Thomas over Winslow though... love that little dude.

2. Get Thomas, Jerebko and trade up was plan A of the off-season, which for me, also included getting back in the draft mid-first to nab another role player there (loved the middle portion of this draft, and I think the C's made out like bandits for where they selected). I might have done a bit more, such as sacrificing Kelly/Sully on the fires of acquiring Winslow, but it just gets too sweet at a certain price, I'm not interested in that entree past a certain price.

3. Plan B was always to make your picks. Rozier is that high upside gamble I hoped Ainge would make, though I initially thought Jones/Martin/Anderson were more appropriate in this range, but the mocks were misleading, shooting (Hunter) and versatility defensively (Mickey) were all areas that I had identified as needs heading into the off-season. An underrated aspect of this approach to the draft is that potentially allows you to move on from some of your expendable, but more proven pieces to fill holes in the roster.

4. The free agent frenzy? Yeah, I got the bug a bit and got a little "ahead of schedule". Doesn't mean I don't think the Celtics are still THE destination. All it's going to take is a strong start to the season (which is what I'm predicting will happen), a couple foundering steps from Dallas (not looking great, but still hope in that brutal West with an aging Dirk and Parsons, who's always been good, but not great. Love Matthews though, wish him well) or Brooklyn flaming out(looking like a strong chance the rising tide in the East won't be lifting their boat with anchors like D-Will and JJ around) for the Celtics to be traders in hot commodities at the deadline.

5. Not completely ready to rule out some movement before the season starts either. After Gasol-Aldridge-Love I was more "trying to convince myself" of their merits and fit. Guys like Monroe, Harris, Lopez... good players, but do they fit as well as Jonas or Amir when you factor in the way Stevens wants to defend/play plus the opportunity cost of potentially hamstringing future moves? No, even without those considerations, it's possible that Crowder-Jonas-Amir are just BETTER than the 3 guys on the second tier who got a lot of love here, from me as well... just saying, this isn't set in stone yet.

6. I was always content to roll with Thomas-#16-Smart-Crowder-Sullinger-Zeller-Young-Jonas-Koufos/Lopez/*Fill in veteran big defender, so no, I'm not off base a flip flopper or anything of that nature. I've had a layered plan all off-season.

And here's a "spitball idea" that you don't need to paste into your "notepad" aim2please: Bradley for Koufos in a S&T.

Enough with the backstory - its done, move on.

This team is positioned to be about the same as they were last year - scrappy and defensively sound, but with sub-par offense and shooting. They need HUGE development from their key guys to move the ball forward into ECF challenger level - aka Washington.

I don't see any trades that they'll make based on this mantra that they are now preserving their cap space. as much as possible - that means no big time trade unless its "franchise" tyoe stuff - hence the Amire 1 year deal.

This team appears to be in a holding pattern, which is fine, but many in the league felt that this was a year to really build up the quality of your team to improve attractiveness for next year when there is 10 times more competition - Ainge is banking on another solid season and 60 million in cap space being the key, alongside internal development and better draft assets.

We shall see who is right.

He'll almost certainly try and get ahead of that summer 16 competition by making a big move in-season.

C's need a big first three months, particularly their surplus of B-level young guys. One needs to make himself sexy enough to headline a deal.

C's also need a couple of teams to implode.

[humblebum]

I'm getting attacked from every angle, of course I have to address backstory, kids around here riding my.... LMAO If it weren't for these dudes sweating this tanking nonsense all season and making themselves like all silly like I would never have to address it. As far as I'm concerned, I keep obliterating people with each passing year and debate.

So moving, on Bradley for Koufos anyone? Showcase a Sullinger or an Olynyk, make an in-season move or a couple moves and see how far you can get in the EC playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised by a first round win so long as the Celtics don't draw Cleveland or Milwaukee (who's not a great matchup for the Celtics at current, but Amir/Jonas give me some hope we can contend with their length better this season).

Young is the guy, IMO. I think he's the real deal and have felt that way since KY. I'm also intrigued as heck by Rozier, can't wait to see how his "burst" translates to the SL speed. Having Smart and Pressey to play with in SL should help a ton out of the gates for all these guards and perimeter players.

[BfB]

Nah. You went all-in on the fact that we were going to have this great offseason not only without tanking, but because we didn't tank. You were very adamant about this, and spoke in absolute terms devoid of nuance. Anyone who didn't agree didn't understand basketball. Fact it didn't pan out seems to be everyone else's fault but your own.

I'm over it, but come on. You can't be that over the top and then not own it when it blows up on you.

As to Rondo, I'll own being too high on his market value, but keep in mind I was proactive about wanting to trade him for whatever we could get for a year and a half before he got dealt. I do think he and Green were our two best players back in December when I made the comment (you seem to be trying to put them below a bunch of players who weren't on the team yet), and more importantly, guy was a total gamer for us for a good 5-6 year stretch -- and especially in big games. No one gets to rewrite history on that.

So, either of you two have a take on today? The past is OVER - the new direction is clear: remain flexible and wait for something to come along.

The team decided before the draft that it wasn't going to even play this year's free agent market - that's why they put sommuch on the table for Winslow - their new master plan is teying to have the "most" free agent money each of the bext two years while banking on a breakout or two from their core guys.

Personally, I don't think they have a support scorer to make IT's life easier. Sully will fade after 30 games, per usual, and KO will be too damn scared to actually shoot. AB is not a high level scorer. Thought he could get to that 17-19 range, but I have re-adjusted ny expectstions to 15-17, which is fine, but not enough. The team needs somebody to help carry the load, so who does it?

I've been posting about the future the whole time. We have to stay patient and hope we get lucky with some of our picks and prospects. I think we can win 50, not that I hold that in high regard in the East, but it's going to be very difficult to add elite pieces from here. We are bringing knives to a gun fight. I'm disappointed, and I'm one of the guys who saw this coming. And agree that we don't have enough scoring.

I just think its extremely stupid that the team decided to pass on this year's FA class in order to have more cap room next year. It seemed clear that with a 40 million spike over the next two years that this was the only season in history where being aggressive was a smart payoff.

I din't think everybody gets that yet. They think BOS got turned down by free agents. The teuth is that they did some homework and decided that two superstars of the LMA /Gasol ilk wouldn't be a wise investment as they wanted to keep the core under 27 years old and liked the RFA's more than the UFA's.

BOS may still trade for Love in the near future - after the season is a steing possibility as CLE will shed salary to recoup value from onemof their 2 PF's eventually - Mozgov/Love/LBJ/TT all play mins at 4/5 - can't keep them all satisfied and they are imbalanced in terms of depth at other positions.

I just think it is incedibly risky to put all your faith in player development and free agency - they basically "pushed" on this offseason to the next....losing Winslow makes this so much harder to swallow as theb"push" is much easier to digest with a bluechip talent in hand (not sure wtf HB is talking sbout when he says "unskilled" - kids a beast)

[TruthBucket]

UGH

[humblebum]

So, either of you two have a take on today? The past is OVER - the new direction is clear: remain flexible and wait for something to come along.

The team decided before the draft that it wasn't going to even play this year's free agent market - that's why they put sommuch on the table for Winslow - their new master plan is teying to have the "most" free agent money each of the bext two years while banking on a breakout or two from their core guys.

Personally, I don't think they have a support scorer to make IT's life easier. Sully will fade after 30 games, per usual, and KO will be too damn scared to actually shoot. AB is not a high level scorer. Thought he could get to that 17-19 range, but I have re-adjusted ny expectstions to 15-17, which is fine, but not enough. The team needs somebody to help carry the load, so who does it?

I've been posting about the future the whole time. We have to stay patient and hope we get lucky with some of our picks and prospects. I think we can win 50, not that I hold that in high regard in the East, but it's going to be very difficult to add elite pieces from here. We are bringing knives to a gun fight. I'm disappointed, and I'm one of the guys who saw this coming. And agree that we don't have enough scoring.

I just think its extremely stupid that the team decided to pass on this year's FA class in order to have more cap room next year. It seemed clear that with a 40 million spike over the next two years that this was the only season in history where being aggressive was a smart payoff.

I din't think everybody gets that yet. They think BOS got turned down by free agents. The teuth is that they did some homework and decided that two superstars of the LMA /Gasol ilk wouldn't be a wise investment as they wanted to keep the core under 27 years old and liked the RFA's more than the UFA's.

BOS may still trade for Love in the near future - after the season is a steing possibility as CLE will shed salary to recoup value from onemof their 2 PF's eventually - Mozgov/Love/LBJ/TT all play mins at 4/5 - can't keep them all satisfied and they are imbalanced in terms of depth at other positions.

I just think it is incedibly risky to put all your faith in player development and free agency - they basically "pushed" on this offseason to the next....losing Winslow makes this so much harder to swallow as theb"push" is much easier to digest with a bluechip talent in hand (not sure wtf HB is talking sbout when he says "unskilled" - kids a beast)

Why did Winslow drop past Hezonja and Stanimal in your opinion? He was the third SF selected despite showcasing his tremendous talents at Duke. What gives?

It's the lack of half-court offensive upside right now, he's a bit undercooked in terms of some of his basic dribbling, shooting mechanics, shooting off the dribble, etc. he's a bit limited and projects more as that defensive standout who plays his role (aka a 3 and D, but probably not too great on the 3 part on the NBA level). He's not big enough to be a dominant SF playing the 4. But he's not exactly skilled enough to play SG either, and function as a primary playmaker or scorer, he hasn't done that nor really shown the aptitude for it.

He's not proven that's even who he is as far as his mental/skill makeup. He doesn't have as much dexterity, deftness of touch shooting the ball as Hezonja and Stan. He's solid, like Smart, he's a dynamo in transition and a "beast" defensively. I think given his strength and his finishing ability, plus his "gamey-ness" makes him a plausible starting SF long-term with the potential, if he can become a bit more skilled and sound fundamentally with his precision footwork in the halfcourt, or his PnR ball handler game, he could be special. But there is work to be done, and a chance he never develops a big offensive weapon outside of his transition, driving close out game, spot up game that he displayed playing undersized next to Okafor at the 4.

The other stuff, it's what I've been saying since the first day of FA and what I've been getting lambasted for the last couple days. The Celtics bowed out of overpaying for Winslow. They bowed out of overpaying for Monroe, Harris. And I don't think they were so enamored of Gasol/Aldridge that they would sacrifice their ability to intelligently add players and keep players that will allow Brad to develop his brand of basketball here in Boston.

[Captain_Caveman]

So, either of you two have a take on today? The past is OVER - the new direction is clear: remain flexible and wait for something to come along.

The team decided before the draft that it wasn't going to even play this year's free agent market - that's why they put sommuch on the table for Winslow - their new master plan is teying to have the "most" free agent money each of the bext two years while banking on a breakout or two from their core guys.

Personally, I don't think they have a support scorer to make IT's life easier. Sully will fade after 30 games, per usual, and KO will be too damn scared to actually shoot. AB is not a high level scorer. Thought he could get to that 17-19 range, but I have re-adjusted ny expectstions to 15-17, which is fine, but not enough. The team needs somebody to help carry the load, so who does it?

I've been posting about the future the whole time. We have to stay patient and hope we get lucky with some of our picks and prospects. I think we can win 50, not that I hold that in high regard in the East, but it's going to be very difficult to add elite pieces from here. We are bringing knives to a gun fight. I'm disappointed, and I'm one of the guys who saw this coming. And agree that we don't have enough scoring.

I just think its extremely stupid that the team decided to pass on this year's FA class in order to have more cap room next year. It seemed clear that with a 40 million spike over the next two years that this was the only season in history where being aggressive was a smart payoff.

I din't think everybody gets that yet. They think BOS got turned down by free agents. The teuth is that they did some homework and decided that two superstars of the LMA /Gasol ilk wouldn't be a wise investment as they wanted to keep the core under 27 years old and liked the RFA's more than the UFA's.

BOS may still trade for Love in the near future - after the season is a steing possibility as CLE will shed salary to recoup value from onemof their 2 PF's eventually - Mozgov/Love/LBJ/TT all play mins at 4/5 - can't keep them all satisfied and they are imbalanced in terms of depth at other positions.

I just think it is incedibly risky to put all your faith in player development and free agency - they basically "pushed" on this offseason to the next....losing Winslow makes this so much harder to swallow as theb"push" is much easier to digest with a bluechip talent in hand (not sure wtf HB is talking sbout when he says "unskilled" - kids a beast)

I think it is pretty clear that the team was turned down on all the major moves this offseason. The elite FAs, all the teams in the top 10 of the draft, and surely about guys like Cousins as well.

What is less clear is to what extent they were turned down by the 3rd tier FAs. Personally, I think they didn't panic and offer multiple Nets picks for Winslow, or max money to guys like RoLo or Harris, and I am totally OK with that. Still a failure of an offseason given our goals and the assets we had to work with.

To quote you, we punted to 2016.

And to quote BannersOnly, we are going to play this season with a bunch of "ham and eggers".

[165bows]

@BobbyMarks42: Low risk move by SAC. Key will be finding solid veterans to patrol the locker room. Brandon Bass would be the perfect fit.

Had thought this since the Philly trade that SAC made. Was weird to me that all the focus was on the back court (where they had Collison/McLemore in place) but Gay is still their only forward.

[ILC]

@BobbyMarks42: Low risk move by SAC. Key will be finding solid veterans to patrol the locker room. Brandon Bass would be the perfect fit.

Had thought this since the Philly trade that SAC made. Was weird to me that all the focus was on the back court (where they had Collison/McLemore in place) but Gay is still their only forward.

They'll probably resign Casspi to some cheap deal and I would like Bass on that team. He could be a starter, a veteran presence, has chemistry with Rondo already and is the ultimate professional.

[165bows]

@BobbyMarks42: Low risk move by SAC. Key will be finding solid veterans to patrol the locker room. Brandon Bass would be the perfect fit.

Had thought this since the Philly trade that SAC made. Was weird to me that all the focus was on the back court (where they had Collison/McLemore in place) but Gay is still their only forward.

They'll probably resign Casspi to some cheap deal and I would like Bass on that team. He could be a starter, a veteran presence, has chemistry with Rondo already and is the ultimate professional.

Would probably shoot down getting any crappy asset back for him in a sign and trade if he heads there. Good fit though IMO.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Thats some weak spin by the org. What do you think puts them in the running for KLove? Im all for dealing IT. Get a damn star on the roster.

[VeryMuchWoke]

I think Ainge is taking the smart long view with this "punt" strategy. The most exciting FAs were Gasol and LMA, and both of those guys are on the back 9. So best case scenario we get another 2-4 year window in contention, that's if were lucky enough to add another big free agent next offseason. That's bit exactly ideal. Not to mention LMA is a huge bitch when it comes to playing at the 5.

As much as I'd like us to be contenders again, we'll have a scrappy defensive team that'll compete every night. For me, that's every bit as exciting as the most recent couple of seasons of the big 3 era and I suspect we'll continue to improve year over year.

[Elrod is Back]

BfB--

Your analysis makes sense. This year is very much about seeing what we have with these kids and how well they respond to coaching. For that reason, it seems like the herd might need to be thinned. Turner seems like a candidate, especially if Young emerges as someone who can play the 3 along with Crowder. One of Thomas or Bradley, too, but only if there were good offers and if Rozier/Young/Hunter emerge as deserving serious rotation minutes. Tomas and Bradley are still young and have favorable contracts. No reason to rush into a deal.

The tanking issue is not really germane; we play kids for the most part. No more Brandon Bass stuff, and if they make the playoffs, that is fine. If they don't, that is OK as well, if the kids are developing. The only guy who will likely play serious minutes who almost certainly is not part of the team's long-term future is Amir Johnson, and I doubt he will play more than 25 mpg.

I suspect one of Sullinger or Olynyk could be moved, but only if the price is right. (Please, Toronto, offer the 2016 NYK/Denver no. 1 pick you have for Kelly!) Jerebko actually was more than passable as a back-up 4 last season after coming over from Detroit. There wasn't much drop-off if any from KO, though KO has greater upside.

Danny needed 4 full seasons in his first rebuild, and we should give him the same here. Two more seasons and he should have the Cs in a position to be a serious 55-60 win team in the summer of 2017. But there remains a great deal to do to get us there, and nothing is guaranteed.

I initially despised the FA signings until I learned the second years were not guaranteed. By doing that Danny totally redeemed himself. He has a lot of flexibility and that is exactly what the doctor ordered.

EE

[165bows]

So, either of you two have a take on today? The past is OVER - the new direction is clear: remain flexible and wait for something to come along.

The team decided before the draft that it wasn't going to even play this year's free agent market - that's why they put sommuch on the table for Winslow - their new master plan is teying to have the "most" free agent money each of the bext two years while banking on a breakout or two from their core guys.

Personally, I don't think they have a support scorer to make IT's life easier. Sully will fade after 30 games, per usual, and KO will be too damn scared to actually shoot. AB is not a high level scorer. Thought he could get to that 17-19 range, but I have re-adjusted ny expectstions to 15-17, which is fine, but not enough. The team needs somebody to help carry the load, so who does it?

I've been posting about the future the whole time. We have to stay patient and hope we get lucky with some of our picks and prospects. I think we can win 50, not that I hold that in high regard in the East, but it's going to be very difficult to add elite pieces from here. We are bringing knives to a gun fight. I'm disappointed, and I'm one of the guys who saw this coming. And agree that we don't have enough scoring.

I just think its extremely stupid that the team decided to pass on this year's FA class in order to have more cap room next year. It seemed clear that with a 40 million spike over the next two years that this was the only season in history where being aggressive was a smart payoff.

I din't think everybody gets that yet. They think BOS got turned down by free agents. The teuth is that they did some homework and decided that two superstars of the LMA /Gasol ilk wouldn't be a wise investment as they wanted to keep the core under 27 years old and liked the RFA's more than the UFA's.

BOS may still trade for Love in the near future - after the season is a steing possibility as CLE will shed salary to recoup value from onemof their 2 PF's eventually - Mozgov/Love/LBJ/TT all play mins at 4/5 - can't keep them all satisfied and they are imbalanced in terms of depth at other positions.

I just think it is incedibly risky to put all your faith in player development and free agency - they basically "pushed" on this offseason to the next....losing Winslow makes this so much harder to swallow as theb"push" is much easier to digest with a bluechip talent in hand (not sure wtf HB is talking sbout when he says "unskilled" - kids a beast)

I was pretty much in full agreement through the year on that first paragraph.

Looking at next year's list it is actually a really shallow free agent group with almost no one taking a one year deal this year. From my perspective it looks like really three guys, Conley, Horford and Durant. Everyone else is either RFA or second tier guys like Batum or Noah.

Conley and Horford seem like solid bets to resign where they are. I'm all in on Durant but this team has a lot of work to do to get in on that scenario, not sure what does it beyond Love/Cousins trades.

[humblebum]

If you listen to Ainge, he made more than a few references to trades, tough decisions. He's obviously making a move here. He has a ton of guys who are assets, teams are shuffling pieces left and right to fill out the contenders "other guys". Bradley, Turner, Sullinger... all of them have "higher than you think value" on the trade market, but you have to be careful you're not selling too soon.

Bradley shipped out for an S&T'ed Koufos, or someone like that, or something structured around Sullinger/Wallace for Lee/Ezeli/2019 First rounder.

I also still believe that Ainge could take on a 1 year salary in a better player than Wallace, while shipping Wallace out to a third team and using picks, unguarateed contracts, to grease the wheels of commerce.

There are still little tidying moves to be made, such as those examples above, which won't hurt flexibility and which you can accomplish without adding prime assets/core players or damaging flexibility.

Anyone else think we'll see some Jerebko at the SF this season?

[Froob]

Speaking of Bass, he'd be a nice fit back home in NOLA too. They could use another veteran presence.