Trade Winds Cont. (2015-16 Trade Thread)

[soxfan2003]

Barnes? – He's not worth that kind of effort.

I'm much more happy with who we already have.
To take a chance on a Kid like Barnes (who wants a superstar payday) – He needs to already be a Superstar.

This Kid is mid-level.

Not directly advocating for Barnes but if Ainge can't hit on a Jeff Green or Harrison Barnes he isn't going to pull this off. If all Ainge can do is sit there and try and sign Kevin Durant then we are wasting our time.

I am not all in Barnes right now but I would be wiling to risk the money if the asset cost wasn't that high. I think everyone should reexamine Curry/Rondo circa '11-'12.

I liked Curry more as a present day player then Rondo by the 2010-11 regular season. Rondo regressed a bit that year and Curry got better during his 2nd year. Curry was injured in the 2011-12 season and missed tons of games and didn't play many minutes but he was still on an upward slope in the minutes he did play. 21.2 PER, TS% of 60.5% and 45.5% from 3 during that injury plagued season. Only question back then for me about Curry was his health and when the Warriors would finally get rid of Monta Ellis who I never liked.

I certainly like Barnes more than Jeff Green but even if you could guarantee player health, I wouldn't take a 50/50 bet right now that Barnes will ever be a legit top 50 player and during Curry's rookie year, I would have bet on him being a future top 10 NBA player if he simply stayed healthy long enough to develop. With the money Barnes is requesting, it doesn't make sense for the Celtics to take that chance without at least seeing a lot more improvement. MKG has shown more than Barnes and MKG just signed for less money than Barnes turned down. It shows you that even being the 6th most valuable player on a championship team can be lucrative.

With the way NBA contracts are structured and the upcoming increase in the cap perhaps Barnes just has to develop into a top 75 player to be worth the present day max but if you have a team of fairly paid players plus a couple of underpaid young players....you probably win around 50 games. I'd like the Celtics to do much better than that.

One thing James Harden proved is that you can show that you are star even if you play with Durant/Westbrook. I had Harden as a top 15 player by his last year in OKC. I don't consider playing with Curry/Klay as an excuse for Barnes not to show a little more.

[sully00]

Not directly advocating for Barnes but if Ainge can't hit on a Jeff Green or Harrison Barnes he isn't going to pull this off. If all Ainge can do is sit there and try and sign Kevin Durant then we are wasting our time.

I am not all in Barnes right now but I would be wiling to risk the money if the asset cost wasn't that high. I think everyone should reexamine Curry/Rondo circa '11-'12.

Exactly. No one is advocating selling the farm for Barnes, but this established superstar (i.e. Durant) or bust attitude isn't going to cut it. Barnes is a decent gamble for mid-range assets. Keep Smart and the BK picks off the table and Danny should at least entertain a deal.

This Harrison Barnes Kid, just turned down a $64M/4yr deal with Golden State.
That ends the discussion for me. Hopefully for Danny Ainge too.

The math you are using is off. You need to re-calibrate. This article on Tristan Thompson will explain better than I can.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/?s=Tristan+Thompson
Why is Barnes going to sign a deal a year early only to limit how much money he makes? He doesn't get that money this year, his salary for this season is already set. There is certainly some security in signing a fat extension but the reality it is there is little chance he will be looking at less than 4 years and 64 mil next season. His max a year from now as an RFA will be 4 years 88 mil as a FA or almost a 120 mil on a 5 year deal with GS. Barnes signing this deal only helps the Warriors. While 16 mil is outrageous sum of money right now it may be the equivalent of 9-11 mil in today's dollars by the time Barnes gets paid half the guarantee he is eligible for in a year.

[Parliament10]

Exactly. No one is advocating selling the farm for Barnes, but this established superstar (i.e. Durant) or bust attitude isn't going to cut it. Barnes is a decent gamble for mid-range assets. Keep Smart and the BK picks off the table and Danny should at least entertain a deal.

This Harrison Barnes Kid, just turned down a $64M/4yr deal with Golden State.
That ends the discussion for me. Hopefully for Danny Ainge too.

The math you are using is off. You need to re-calibrate. This article on Tristan Thompson will explain better than I can.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/?s=Tristan+Thompson
Why is Barnes going to sign a deal a year early only to limit how much money he makes? He doesn't get that money this year, his salary for this season is already set. There is certainly some security in signing a fat extension but the reality it is there is little chance he will be looking at less than 4 years and 64 mil next season. His max a year from now as an RFA will be 4 years 88 mil as a FA or almost a 120 mil on a 5 year deal with GS. Barnes signing this deal only helps the Warriors. While 16 mil is outrageous sum of money right now it may be the equivalent of 9-11 mil in today's dollars by the time Barnes gets paid half the guarantee he is eligible for in a year.

I actually did already understand all that.

The thing is, the Kid is only a 10-5 guy. I haven't seen otherwise. So, while he may get a big payday, as many will. He is just not worth that kind of money, to me. I wouldn't pay it. And I pray that Danny doesn't throw-the-bank at this type of mediocre player, either.

[sully00]

This Harrison Barnes Kid, just turned down a $64M/4yr deal with Golden State.
That ends the discussion for me. Hopefully for Danny Ainge too.

The math you are using is off. You need to re-calibrate. This article on Tristan Thompson will explain better than I can.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/?s=Tristan+Thompson
Why is Barnes going to sign a deal a year early only to limit how much money he makes? He doesn't get that money this year, his salary for this season is already set. There is certainly some security in signing a fat extension but the reality it is there is little chance he will be looking at less than 4 years and 64 mil next season. His max a year from now as an RFA will be 4 years 88 mil as a FA or almost a 120 mil on a 5 year deal with GS. Barnes signing this deal only helps the Warriors. While 16 mil is outrageous sum of money right now it may be the equivalent of 9-11 mil in today's dollars by the time Barnes gets paid half the guarantee he is eligible for in a year.

I actually did already understand all that.

The thing is, the Kid is only a 10-5 guy. I haven't seen otherwise. So, while he may get a big payday, as many will. He is just not worth that kind of money, to me. I wouldn't pay it. And I pray that Danny doesn't throw-the-bank at this type of mediocre player, either.

Now I am not going to dismiss the idea that Barnes is mediocre that may be a fact. But he isn't mediocre because he is a 10-5 guy. By that measure Kawhi Leonard is mediocre. Barnes like Leonard is developing in a championship environment. Now to this point Barnes is not a standout defender. But Boston is not in the market for a defensive minded wing what they need is a guy who can put the ball in the basket in bunches. Could be Barnes be that guy but just on a roster with 4 or 5 other guys doing that already and he is most valuable floating at the 3 pt line without the ball in hands? Right now his usage is at 14.5% in that sense he is nothing like Jeff Green (21% for his career) who seems to be best suited for the role that Barnes is in and has always been a little over exposed. The 80 million dollar question is what does Barnes become in a place where the system is built to match his strengths and his usage increased. Clearly the Warriors feel there is something there that has been untapped or they wouldn't be willing to give him 64 mil.

[brackdan70]

Barnes is pretty interesting to me as a celtics fan....but in the end Golden State will be crazy to let him go even if they have to give him a near max deal. I believe he will get a number of offers as an RFA that exceed the deal he reportable turned down.

He is 23 years old, he has shown steady improvement each of the three years he has been in the league. last year...as a 22 year old last year, he put up these numbers:
TS% 0.573, Ortg 116, Drtg 104, BPM 1.1, RPM.

I don't find any wings his age or younger that are better. MKG has a better RPM but thats it.

Granted there are more stats in the world than those, but those in my mind give a good overview.

[ddb]

Barnes is pretty interesting to me as a celtics fan....but in the end Golden State will be crazy to let him go even if they have to give him a near max deal. I believe he will get a number of offers as an RFA that exceed the deal he reportable turned down.

He is 23 years old, he has shown steady improvement each of the three years he has been in the league. last year...as a 22 year old last year, he put up these numbers:
TS% 0.573, Ortg 116, Drtg 104, BPM 1.1, RPM.

I don't find any wings his age or younger that are better. MKG has a better RPM but thats it.

Granted there are more stats in the world than those, but those in my mind give a good overview.

If people can simply stop comparing a potential Barnes deal to a James Harden 2.0 deal, then I think we'd be alright. Barnes is not Harden. But I don't think Barnes is Jeff Green either. I liken Barnes to a guy that can be a solid #2, or #3 on a title team. I think he can average 18-20ppg and be efficient.

[ddb]

I know Tristian Thompson and LeBron are tight. I also know it's unlikely he leaves Cleveland. At least not right now....But if he's unable to reach an agreement by Thursday, would Cleveland consider a trade?

I'd do Sully/Turner/Jones for Thompson all day long.

[Captain_Caveman]

No thanks on Barnes.

[Slartibartfast]

I'd rather wait for Hayward than splurge on Barnes.

[ddb]

I'd rather wait for Hayward than splurge on Barnes.

Gordon Hayward is a solid, but not spectacular player. I think the upside of Barnes is higher then Hayward. I also think the majority of GMs around the league would agree with me on this one

[pfm]

I don't dislike Barnes, but I don't think he's a special player in the making either. I think the cost could potentially outweight the reward. I'd take Hayward (who had a very good year last year) over Barnes.

[truth18]

Don't want either personally.

[Captain_Caveman]

I'd rather wait for Hayward than splurge on Barnes.

Gordon Hayward is a solid, but not spectacular player. I think the upside of Barnes is higher then Hayward. I also think the majority of GMs around the league would agree with me on this one

I dunno if that is true. Barnes is a better physical specimen, but as many have said, he's Jeff Green mentally. Will pop off with an explosive dunk once in a while that obscures the fact that he just floats around out there. His upside is evident but overrated.

Bows also correctly pointed out that he lives off of open 3s created by Curry and Klay.

I don't understand what dude does beyond catch-and-shooting wide open 3s at a reasonable rate. Not a defender, can't pass or play within an offense... I guess he rebounds well enough for his size, but dude doesn't move the needle for us in any way and isn't worth giving up picks or cap space for. I feel like we already have guys as good as him for less money at SF.

[165bows]

I'd rather wait for Hayward than splurge on Barnes.

Agree completely. In fact, I'd say Hayward should be the plan B, with Plan A being of course acquiring multiple top 20 players lol.

Though with a solid near 20-5-5 last year, Hayward's league-wide ranking improvement isn't topped by too many guys IMO.

[Celts17Pride]

I know Tristian Thompson and LeBron are tight. I also know it's unlikely he leaves Cleveland. At least not right now....But if he's unable to reach an agreement by Thursday, would Cleveland consider a trade?

I'd do Sully/Turner/Jones for Thompson all day long.

Don't think this trade can work. Thompson is a RFA. It would probably have to be a sign and trade and he already turned down $16 million per year. Celtics don't have the salary to give back yet. Celtics are not under the cap. If Thompson signs the QO then he can't be traded for a long time.

[Parliament10]

Barnes is pretty interesting to me as a celtics fan....but in the end Golden State will be crazy to let him go even if they have to give him a near max deal. I believe he will get a number of offers as an RFA that exceed the deal he reportable turned down.

He is 23 years old, he has shown steady improvement each of the three years he has been in the league. last year...as a 22 year old last year, he put up these numbers:
TS% 0.573, Ortg 116, Drtg 104, BPM 1.1, RPM.

I don't find any wings his age or younger that are better. MKG has a better RPM but thats it.

Granted there are more stats in the world than those, but those in my mind give a good overview.

If people can simply stop comparing a potential Barnes deal to a James Harden 2.0 deal, then I think we'd be alright. Barnes is not Harden. But I don't think Barnes is Jeff Green either. I liken Barnes to a guy that can be a solid #2, or #3 on a title team. I think he can average 18-20ppg and be efficient.

"I liken Barnes to a guy that can be a solid #2, or #3 on a title team. I think he can average 18-20ppg and be efficient."

Really?
When he gets there, then let's pay the money.

I realize that the cap is about to go through the roof. But, I wouldn't increase the pay to ridiculous amounts.
I'd rather it be given to the D-League. = Improve that. And/or other improvements for current and retired players. JMO.

[Banks2Pierce]

I think the upside of Barnes is higher then Hayward. I also think the majority of GMs around the league would agree with me on this one

Do you realize how good Hayward is already? Put him on our team this year and we're genuinely in the mid 50s for wins. Barnes hasn't even been better than Crowder yet. He does have upside, but I would like to have seen more of it so far.

[ddb]

I think the upside of Barnes is higher then Hayward. I also think the majority of GMs around the league would agree with me on this one

Do you realize how good Hayward is already? Put him on our team this year and we're genuinely in the mid 50s for wins. Barnes hasn't even been better than Crowder yet. He does have upside, but I would like to have seen more of it so far.

I'm going all Felger on you guys! In reality I'm not in love with Barnes, Hayward, Morris, etc. Those aren't guys that'll get you to a championship level. Until one of those guys is attainable then Ainge will continue to build, develop and revamp the roster. Nature of the beast. It is what it is. But back to me going all Felger....MAN I NEED SOME BASKETBALL!

[jmr07019]

My trade binkie is Favors. He a 2 way center who would fit in with the current team extremely well. He's only 24 and is locked up very cheaply with salaries of 13, 12, 11 and 12 the next 4 years. Put up 16 and 8 last year and opponents shot 43.8% against him at the rim. He could be the best center in the east considering his competition (Bropez, Valancunias, Noah, Gasol, Mozgov, Drummond, Monroe, Horford, Whiteside, Vucevic). I would call them up and see if a package centered around the Brooklyn '16 pick interests them. Would be willing to do Bradley and '16 Brooklyn pick if that's what it took. We gotta make a consolidation trade at some point and we might not be able to get a Durant, Cousins, George. This is the next best thing IMO. He might be better than anybody on our team right now and the only guys who really have a chance to be better than him next season are Smart and IT.

[truth18]

uuuuuuughhhh.

Can we please make "binkie" a temp ban offense?

That said, I would love Favors here and totally agree.